Still wanna blame Bush, even Obama doesn't

#52
#52
VOLatile said:
Then we would probably be 18 years deep into a "war" with an even deeper debt instead of 8 years.
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Or we would have never gotten into a war because 9/11 never happened?

Osama bin Laden: missed opportunities - Nightly News - msnbc.com

In the fall of 2000, in Afghanistan, unmanned, unarmed spy planes called Predators flew over known al-Qaida training camps. The pictures that were transmitted live to CIA headquarters show al-Qaida terrorists firing at targets, conducting military drills and then scattering on cue through the desert.

Also, that fall, the Predator captured even more extraordinary pictures — a tall figure in flowing white robes. Many intelligence analysts believed then and now it is bin Laden.
 
#53
#53
KiffinKiller said:
Are you? Same structure, I agree. Improving building security would have helped against planes how?
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The later investigations indicated that the WTC continued to pop up as a potential target. There were multiple indicators that terrorists might use planes as flying bombs. There were many times that the whole operation could have been stopped during the Clinton Admin. But it was just a different mindset at that point.
 
#54
#54
KiffinKiller said:
I'll agree. I just don't see how looking at previous terrorist actions (EVEN in the same building) could have saved us from an air suicide attack.
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You have to ask why when an attempt misses. Why was this a target?
 
#59
#59
Back to the main point... I think... BO has been the most "blame someone else" President in memory. You can criticize Bush for many things but he resisted the advice to blame Clinton for 9/11, Iraq, or the first recession. By the same "logic" being used by Obama, he could have.

Obama is an academic who has lived a whole life insulated by thick layers of other academics. He has no real world economic experience and few people close to him that do. He has very little leadership experience and again few close to him that do.

I have no doubt that he really believed his theoretical model derived economic policies were going to work. I have even less doubt that he thinks he can say things like "Companies need to put people back to work" and expect that magically companies will do just that.

His comments recently about unemployment are indicative. Even after the mammoth failure his policies have been... he still thinks unemployment payments stimulate the economy in a major way and create jobs.

A guy I know asked the obvious question. "If unemployment insurance is such a great economic stimulator then why don't we all quit work.... the economy should come roaring to life"?

Everyone knows that is an absurd suggestion... but it is just as absurd for 10% of us as it is for all of us... and for the exact same reasons.
 
#60
#60
VOLatile said:
Then we would probably be 18 years deep into a "war" with an even deeper debt instead of 8 years.
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Or maybe the 9/11 plot would had been thwarted saving thousands of lives and Iraq and Afghanistan never occured. Look, I can speculate too.
 
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#61
#61
KiffinKiller said:
That's how I feel. They have no problem tossing around the label "bush blamers" like it's some kind of moral superiority....and then blame Clinton for 9/11.
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I don't care who gets blame. It happened and there's nothing that can be done about it now.
 
#62
#62
FWIW, Obama's policies have been horrible. They are wrong headed and made a contribution to the mess we find ourselves in.

HOWEVER, most of the burden that we now bear has accummulated over the decades that "big gov't" has been expanding in size, scope, and expense. Other than the six years after 94... no Congress has made any attempt to slow it down.
 
#63
#63
MUR73 said:
Or maybe the 9/11 plot would had been thwarted saving thousands of lives and Iraq and Afghanistan never occured. Look, I can speculate too.
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or maybe a number of a million others things would have happened. This is the dumbest argument. What ifs and could haves have saved the world how many times.

If only we had killed Hitler in WW1
 
#64
#64
VOLatile said:
I don't care who gets blame. It happened and there's nothing that can be done about it now.
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Exactly. Man up Obama and stop blaming bush. We get the fact that you inherited a mess.

For all of GWB's faults, at least he was enough of a leader to not blame other people for problems he may have inherited. I don't recall him blaming Clinton for the tech bubble , not taking down Osama, Enron, etc. You may or may not have agreed with his actions, but he moved forward and did what he believed was best for the country.

Obama is only worried about reelection.
 
#65
#65
MUR73 said:
How about aggresively going after and taking out those that Did it??????????
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[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PGmnz5Ow-o[/youtube]
KiffinKiller said:
That's how I feel. They have no problem tossing around the label "bush blamers" like it's some kind of moral superiority....and then blame Clinton for 9/11.
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Yep. The irony is thick in this one.
 
#66
#66
KiffinKiller said:
or maybe a number of a million others things would have happened. This is the dumbest argument. What ifs and could haves have saved the world how many times.

If only we had killed Hitler in WW1
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I said in my post i can speculate too, thats my point.
 
#67
#67
Muschump said:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PGmnz5Ow-o[/youtube]


Yep. The irony is thick in this one.
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You think Bush didn't want to get Bin Laden? Seriously?


How many on this board blame Clinton for not getting Bin Laden? Point them out and I'll join you in saying the blame is misplaced.
 
#68
#68
volinbham said:
You think Bush didn't want to get Bin Laden? Seriously?


How many on this board blame Clinton for not getting Bin Laden? Point them out and I'll join you in saying the blame is misplaced.
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Of course Bush wanted to get Bin Laden...my beef, however, is he seemed more worried about Saddam. I find it hard to believe if all the time and resources spent building up and fighting the Iraq war were spent exclusively on Afghanistan, and getting Bin Laden then Bin Laden would have been killed/captured on his watch and at the very least Afghanistan would be a different situation now, and at best we wouldn't be there anymore.
 
#69
#69
Iraq was a mistake. No argument from me although I understood why we went at the time.
 
#70
#70
volinbham said:
Iraq was a mistake. No argument from me although I understood why we went at the time.
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Agreed, I understand as well. Iraq was a threat, no doubt, I just think Afghanistan should have been delt with first. The good thing about Iraq is we now have a military presence on both sides of Iran, I'm just not sure it was worth it at the time.

Iraq was contained, however Afghanistan was, and in many ways still is, the wild west. It was an issue with misplaced priorities.
 
#73
#73
MUR73 said:
Yes it was , but it was a Bipartisan mistake as both sides approved based on the intel we had we felt as we had to move.
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The sad part about this is much of the intel concerning WMDs were greatly exaggerated to sell this war to the public during post 911 fears. There was an agendqa driven one-side approach to the analysis, most of which was a product of Cheney micromanaging what was coming out of the intel agencies. Unless Bob Woodard and Ron Suskinds books were compete fabrications, its hard not to conclude this is how it went down. Knowing what we know now, it should be no surprise whatsoever that WMDs were never found.

All the legit reasons for conflict...kicking out weapon inspectors, defying UN sanctions, violation of no-fly zones, corruption in the oil-for-food program, violation of human rights, etc...generally took a backseat to "He has WMDs and will use them, lets go invade".
 
#75
#75
rjd970 said:
The sad part about this is much of the intel concerning WMDs were greatly exaggerated to sell this war to the public during post 911 fears. There was an agendqa driven one-side approach to the analysis, most of which was a product of Cheney micromanaging what was coming out of the intel agencies. Unless Bob Woodard and Ron Suskinds books were compete fabrications, its hard not to conclude this is how it went down. Knowing what we know now, it should be no surprise whatsoever that WMDs were never found.

All the legit reasons for conflict...kicking out weapon inspectors, defying UN sanctions, violation of no-fly zones, corruption in the oil-for-food program, violation of human rights, etc...generally took a backseat to "He has WMDs and will use them, lets go invade".
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I haven't read those books so i concede your point, I just don't know, but the UN, which is a joke, really should have stepped in and dealt with Saddam for the reasons you mentioned, of course i know that argument can be made about several dictators who have done the same or worse that have gotten a free pass.
 
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