Stock market collapsing will obama and the unions pay attention?

#26
#26
The P&G error was worth about 172 points of the initial drop, apparently. However, those are just the points P&G directly contributed, not to mention the ripple effect of a 150+ drop in seconds on an already declining market. Geez. That's insane.
 
#27
#27
the problem is the firms always put their most stupid traders on equities (particurally liquid ones like PG). the real smart guys trade etfs, options, or bonds. but of course equities are the most important part of the system from a stability point of view.
 
#28
#28
Glad that its not like the entire world economy could come close to blowing up because someone's infrared mouse battery is low.
 
#30
#30
I guess that dumb SOB at Citi will have to testify in Congress and have Carl Levin cuss at him...
 
#31
#31
droski said:
they are saying it was a billion shares (meant to do a million) on an broad market index.
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BigPapaVol said:
holy crap. You'd think someone would double check.
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In one of the most dizzying half-hours in stock market history, the Dow plunged nearly 1,000 points before paring those losses in what possibly could have been a trader error. According to multiple sources, a trader entered a "b" for billion instead of an "m" for million in a trade possibly involving Procter & Gamble

Sources tell CNBC the firm in question that handled the erroneous trade is Citigroup. The bank said it has no evidence of a bad trade but is investigating the situation
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amazing
 
#33
#33
the head of the NYSE just said that the NYSE fail safes did work, that all these trades were off the exchange and were legit orders. he said that he expects it to be ugly tommorow (can't believe he'd actually said that).
 
#34
#34
droski said:
the head of the NYSE just said that the NYSE fail safes did work, that all these trades were off the exchange and were legit orders. he said that he expects it to be ugly tommorow (can't believe he'd actually said that).
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Eek.
 
#35
#35
Accenture was at $40 at 2:47 and dropped to one cent at 2:48!!!!

it rebounded back to around 40 - something weird happened...

 
#39
#39
oh and its the machines. HFT is a practice that needs to be re-evaluated as far as regulation. i'll sacrifice their so-called liquidity if it means not having to see a market swing like today. BTW the markets still saying there was no glitch - even though NASDAQ is canceling all trades in that 20 minute window. We'll see what they all say when the dust settles tomorrow. could get ugly
 
#41
#41
PLUNGE! 1987 Style Sudden Drop in US Stocks Driven by Program Trading and a Ponzi Market Structure

This is highly reminiscent of the 1987 crash driven by a flawed market structure based on automated trading and bad theories.

The entire stock market rally which we have seen this year off the February lows resembles a low volume Ponzi scheme, and formed a huge air pocket under prices.

This US equity rally was driven by technically oriented buying from the Banks and the hedge funds. There was and still is a lack of legitimate institutional buying at these price levels. This was machine driven speculation enabled by the lack of reform in a system riddled with corruption, from the bottom to the top.

This is yet another indication that the US regulatory and market oversight organizations, especially the SEC and CFTC, continue to be disconnected from and remarkably ineffective in their responsibilities in guarding the public against gross market abuse, price manipulation, and insiders playing games with cheap money supplied by the NY Fed.
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#42
#42
so I guess all the blather about how Obama's economic programs were creating a recovery can go away
 
#44
#44
I hope this serves as a wake up call for those that are proponents of sweeping entitlement programs. I've said it time and again, whenever you give people outrageous benefits they come to expect it and soon it becomes a right.

So many Euro countries are marching toward bankruptcy and utter failure yet some think it is a valid model we should move toward, it's complete idiocy.
 
#45
#45
in 5 minutes or so (after the initial trades get through), my prediction is the market will tank. should be interesting
 
#46
#46
droski said:
in 5 minutes or so (after the initial trades get through), my prediction is the market will tank. should be interesting
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9:48 and up 17 points.

Not that it will stay there, but strictly speaking your preedictive powers need tweaking.
 
#48
#48
droski said:
:) it's virtually impossible to predict these things to the second. now down 18
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Ha!

So droski, I get my Invesco 401k prospectus for one of the funds I select from their ala carte menu. The "management fee" they'll tell me -- its 1.96% on an annualized basis. But, they do not disclose other fees, such as sales commissions or 12b1 fees.

So I've written them asking for what my total amount paid in fees was of any type last year, in that fund and in the others I'm invested in with them.

What is your prediction as to whether I get a response and, what is your prediction on the percentage those additional fees represent?

It astounds me by the way that they can issue a prospectus that only provides a partial disclosure of fees. Not only is the information incomplete, I would argue it misleads those who do a quick review of it, say to themselves "2 percent isn't so bad," and don't realize they are paying other undisclosed fees on top of that.

I've sen some amazing numbers based on $10,000 over 25 years with just a half a percentage difference in your total fees. Cuts the resulting number by close to half.
 
#49
#49
Update: As I wrote the above, I got an email response. They referrted me to my year end statement, which gives me estimated expenses (they say they cannot tell me exactly what it was). The total expenses are between 1.95 and 2.2 percent, varying by fund. On $100,000, the total is estmated at about $1800.
 
#50
#50
lawgator1 said:
Ha!

So droski, I get my Invesco 401k prospectus for one of the funds I select from their ala carte menu. The "management fee" they'll tell me -- its 1.96% on an annualized basis. But, they do not disclose other fees, such as sales commissions or 12b1 fees.

So I've written them asking for what my total amount paid in fees was of any type last year, in that fund and in the others I'm invested in with them.

What is your prediction as to whether I get a response and, what is your prediction on the percentage those additional fees represent?

It astounds me by the way that they can issue a prospectus that only provides a partial disclosure of fees. Not only is the information incomplete, I would argue it misleads those who do a quick review of it, say to themselves "2 percent isn't so bad," and don't realize they are paying other undisclosed fees on top of that.

I've sen some amazing numbers based on $10,000 over 25 years with just a half a percentage difference in your total fees. Cuts the resulting number by close to half.
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They have to disclose 12-1 b fees which is probably in the 2% you've quoted. you should ask them to break it down between management of hte funds and management of the 401k. as for commissions that comes out of your return and no one discloses that. best way to estimate that is to look at turnover (i don't like to see turnover higher than 25-35%). 2% seems very high. i know we've talked about it before but i can't imagine fidelity wouldn't be cheaper.

dow now down 150
 
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