stock market was up today...

#8,901
#8,901
Orange_Vol1321 said:
The Saudi Prince is dropping their oil prices. Trying to hurt competitor's. Since President Trump has pushed drilling it should hardly affect us. Watch what it does to Russia.
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Say what? Our drilling has been financed by junk bonds/debt. We dont have much capacity that can compete if oil goes below $30/barrel. They need at least $65 to stay above water...
 
#8,902
#8,902
Well, isn’t this a thrill a minute! Rates back to zero, anyone? A lot of $$ to be made if you have a long term outlook.
 
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#8,903
#8,903
ESnxh4oUEAA0yT0
 
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#8,904
#8,904
evillawyer said:
I find the whole concept of gold troubling. Why is it anymore intrinsically valuable that anything else? It's shiny and has some decent conductivity properties. If Armageddon truly comes, gold ain't going to be much use.
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...which is why those people buying it in anticipation of Armageddon are truly idiots. Actually, if you're buying anything other than guns, ammo, and food/water in anticipation of Armageddon you're an idiot.

Quite simply, it's a store of value because people think it is. No different than any printed currency. It's been used as a form of money for thousands of years. And you can't print more of it. Fiat money is a relatively recent invention in world history.
 
#8,905
#8,905
05_never_again said:
...which is why those people buying it in anticipation of Armageddon are truly idiots. Actually, if you're buying anything other than guns, ammo, and food/water in anticipation of Armageddon you're an idiot.

Quite simply, it's a store of value because people think it is. No different than any printed currency. It's been used as a form of money for thousands of years. And you can't print more of it. Fiat money is a relatively recent invention in world history.
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Even if things with printed money go kaput and you've bought gold, you don't have possession or custody of the gold. You at best have a contract entitling you to the gold you purchased. Why people think that things may get so bad where the dollar becomes valueless, but that contract will be honored and enforced, is beyond me.
 
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#8,907
#8,907
evillawyer said:
Even if things with printed money go kaput and you've bought gold, you don't have possession or custody of the gold. You at best have a contract entitling you to the gold you purchased. Why people think that things may get so bad where the dollar becomes valueless, but that contract will be honored and enforced, is beyond me.
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Guess you should be buying coins.
 
#8,908
#8,908
evillawyer said:
Even if things with printed money go kaput and you've bought gold, you don't have possession or custody of the gold. You at best have a contract entitling you to the gold you purchased. Why people think that things may get so bad where the dollar becomes valueless, but that contract will be honored and enforced, is beyond me.
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The real doomdayers do own and are in possession of physical gold.

Why they think that in an end of the world situation they'll be able to go around and use that as a form of payment for goods/services is beyond me.
 
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#8,913
#8,913
Just heard a portfolio advisor/manager on Fox Business say that these selling frenzies historically run 17-25 sessions including around 3 up days.
 
#8,914
#8,914
evillawyer said:
I find the whole concept of gold troubling. Why is it anymore intrinsically valuable that anything else? It's shiny and has some decent conductivity properties. If Armageddon truly comes, gold ain't going to be much use.
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That explains alot about ypur knowledge. Gold has always been the standard of wealth since biblical days. Our country was quite prosperous when on the gold standard. You'd rather see our country's financials based on a gov promise? Thats worked well.
 
#8,915
#8,915
Orange_Vol1321 said:
The Saudi Prince is dropping their oil prices. Trying to hurt competitor's. Since President Trump has pushed drilling it should hardly affect us. Watch what it does to Russia.
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Falling oil prices will pummel our domestic Shale Producers. They can’t compete at $30 / barrel
 
#8,916
#8,916
happy-go_vol said:
That explains alot about ypur knowledge. Gold has always been the standard of wealth since biblical days. Our country was quite prosperous when on the gold standard. You'd rather see our country's financials based on a gov promise? Thats worked well.
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It's more prosperous now.
 
#8,919
#8,919
Velo Vol said:
It's more prosperous now.
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One could say artificially due to easy credit/money, increased money supply without the constraints of a gold standard which manifests itself in the abnormal markets/consumer behavior, i.e. bond/MBS market and CDOs/swaps that precipitated the 08/09 financial crisis. Appears we are more prosperous and in some ways we are. The lack of constraints by a gold standard, though, only exacerbated the printing of $$ backed only by the “full faith and credit of the US govt”, which is worth about as much as the paper our fiat currency is printed on. We won’t/can’t make good on this current debt. Then we will see how prosperous we are.
 
#8,920
#8,920
Orange_Vol1321 said:
The Saudi Prince is dropping their oil prices. Trying to hurt competitor's. Since President Trump has pushed drilling it should hardly affect us. Watch what it does to Russia.
Click to expand...

It hurts our E&P companies. Break even for SA oil is $7-$10 a barrel break even in the US is around $15 per barrel higher is some areas.
 
#8,921
#8,921
happy-go_vol said:
That explains alot about ypur knowledge. Gold has always been the standard of wealth since biblical days. Our country was quite prosperous when on the gold standard. You'd rather see our country's financials based on a gov promise? Thats worked well.
Click to expand...

My point is that gold is just as arbitrary a form of currency as paper, especially when most of those purchasing gold never actually take possession of it. You really think that if the dollar becomes worthless, you'll be able to walk up to Fort Knox (or wherever else your gold is bring held for you), show a piece of paper, and walk out with your gold? Any world in which the dollar is valueless will be a world in which our courts have no power and contracts are meaningless.
 
#8,922
#8,922
Rasputin_Vol said:
Say what? Our drilling has been financed by junk bonds/debt. We dont have much capacity that can compete if oil goes below $30/barrel. They need at least $65 to stay above water...
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With the new technology $40-$45 still makes them money.
 
#8,924
#8,924
What is different about today's crash than all others that I have seen is that the markets, crude and interest rates are all tanking at the same time. I've never seen that before.
 
#8,925
#8,925
VolStrom said:
What is different about today's crash than all others that I have seen is that the markets, crude and interest rates are all tanking at the same time. I've never seen that before.
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Happened during the fall of '08, and honestly, the most worrisome move of the 3 you mentioned is the move in interest rates.

This selloff since mid-February has a very fall of 2008 feel to it, the biggest difference being that selloff occurred near the end of the bear market, with the markets already way off their highs. This one is different in that the major indices made new all-time highs just about 3 weeks ago. The speed of the decline has caught almost everybody, even people who were cautious or bearish on the market, by surprise.
 
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