Supreme Court upholds ObamaCare.

#376
#376
Bush JR has f'd this country in so many ways.

His piss poor job got a moron elected who has no reason to be in the office and he clearly gave us a SC judge wh is not a conservative and has changed the make-up of the panel.

Way to go jackass.
 
#377
#377
GAVol said:
How can you prove that in a case like that though? Some would say it was politics. Some would say it was a cut and dried case that should have been 9-0 or never gotten there in the first place.
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The decision itself stated it could never be cited as precedent, causing critics to accuse the conservative majority of simply picking a winner rather than relying on sound jurisprudence.
 
#378
#378
GAVol said:
You just can't fathom that the Tea Party was more a creation of economics than race.
Click to expand...

Meh, it is about a lot of things, race being a very minor part. Class struggle is driving a lot of it.

GOP convinced people that Obama was going to war with upper class whites on behalf of the poor. Irony is that his biggest legislative act forces middle class that can afford health insurance to start buying it or pay in to the system.

A very much GOP ideal.
 
#379
#379
lawgator1 said:
Meh, it is about a lot of things, race being a very minor part. Class struggle is driving a lot of it.

GOP convinced people that Obama was going to war with upper class whites on behalf of the poor. Irony is that his biggest legislative act forces middle class that can afford health insurance to start buying it or pay in to the system.

A very much GOP ideal.
Click to expand...

Ridiculous in every way.

Convinced that Obama was going to war with upper class whites took no effort. It's true to a T. The legislative act forcing purchase isn't the gripe. It's the astronomical cost of insuring everyone by govt mandate and govt intervention. The people who can and will foot the bill already have been. The fact that their their costs will double is the gripe.

It's a flat out lie to pretend that any of this crap is GOP ideal.
 
#380
#380
If this is not kicked out, once the idea that it is a tax begins to settle on the American public, I give it 5 to 10 years before congress begins using a sliding scale for this tax with those under 20k paying no penalty and people making over 125K paying somewhere around 10% whether they have their own HC or not. Because everyone needs to pay their fair share of the burden.

HC has now become the largest entightlement this country has ever seen.
 
#381
#381
BigPapaVol said:
Ridiculous in every way.

Convinced that Obama was going to war with upper class whites took no effort. It's true to a T. The legislative act forcing purchase isn't the gripe. It's the astronomical cost of insuring everyone by govt mandate and govt intervention. The people who can and will foot the bill already have been. The fact that their their costs will double is the gripe.

It's a flat out lie to pretend that any of this crap is GOP ideal.
Click to expand...


A govt.mandate was pushed by the GOP during the Clinton years.
 
#382
#382
GAVol said:
I disagree as it pertains to SCOTUS. There are certainly ideologies at work, but I don't think they're scheming in a back room over politics.
Click to expand...

It goes back to fdr loading the scotus. It wasn't until then that the new deal was really in effect
 
#383
#383
Gramps said:
A govt.mandate was pushed by the GOP during the Clinton years.
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You keep saying that. And while there were some floating the idea, I don't remember it ever being a serious issue. The main objective then was the same as now which was beating back government.
 
#384
#384
GAVol said:
You keep saying that. And while there were some floating the idea, I don't remember it ever being a serious issue. The main objective then was the same as now which was beating back government.
Click to expand...


No.

The reason the Heritage Foundation, GOP members of Congress, and Romney have supported a mandate us that it promotes personal responsibility in the form of everyone paying for their care.

Obama got it done. And so for that reason, AND THAT REASON ONLY, that the GOP now proclaims it evil, socialist, govt overreaching, etc.

Had a President Romney done it, Hannity et al would say this is great because it prevents people from freeloading on the system and will reduce costs.
 
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#385
#385
lawgator1 said:
The reason the Heritage Foundation, GOP members of Congress, and Romney have supported a mandate us that it promotes personal responsibility in the form of everyone paying for their care.
Click to expand...

personal responsibility at gunpoint? Interesting concept in the land of the free. Of course your line about "everyone paying" is also a load of bunk

lawgator1 said:
Obama got it done. And so for that reason, AND THAT REASON ONLY, that the GOP now proclaims it evil, socialist, govt overreaching, etc.
Click to expand...

another stupid statement. People are against it because it's the govt overreaching into our lives and instituting a huge tax increase on the middle class. You know, that middle class you keep touting as so important to our recovery. Well they're getting sanduskied in this deal

lawgator1 said:
Had a President Romney done it, Hannity et al would say this is great because it prevents people from freeloading on the system and will reduce costs.
Click to expand...

but don't you claim Hannity is an idiot?
 
#386
#386
GAVol said:
You keep saying that. And while there were some floating the idea, I don't remember it ever being a serious issue. The main objective then was the same as now which was beating back government.
Click to expand...


It is public record.


In 1993, 23 Republican senators, including then-Minority Leader Robert Dole, cosponsored a bill introduced by Senator John Chafee that sought to achieve universal coverage through a mandate that is, a mandate on individuals to buy insurance.

Nearly every major health care interest group had endorsed substantial reforms--grandiose ones, in fact. The American Medical Association (AMA) and Health Insurance Association of America (HIAA), the two great, historic bastions of opposition to compulsory health insurance, both went on record in support of an employer mandate and universal coverage. Even the U.S. Chamber of Commerce endorsed an
employer mandate, as did many large corporation.


Senate Bill S770 introduced Nov1993
list of co sponsors
Sen Dole, Robert J.
*[KS] - 11/22/1993*
Sen Bond, Christopher S.
*[MO] - 11/22/1993*
Sen Hatfield, Mark O.
*[OR] - 11/22/1993*
Sen Bennett, Robert F.
*[UT] - 11/22/1993*
Sen Hatch, Orrin G.
*[UT] - 11/22/1993*
Sen Danforth, John C.
*[MO] - 11/22/1993*
Sen Brown, Hank
*[CO] - 11/22/1993(withdrawn - 10/4/1994)*
Sen Gorton, Slade
*[WA] - 11/22/1993*
Sen Simpson, Alan K.
*[WY] - 11/22/1993*
Sen Stevens, Ted
*[AK] - 11/22/1993*
Sen Cohen, William S.
*[ME] - 11/22/1993*
Sen Kassebaum, Nancy Landon
*[KS] - 11/22/1993*
Sen Warner, John
*[VA] - 11/22/1993*
Sen Specter, Arlen
*[PA] - 11/22/1993*
Sen Faircloth, Lauch
*[NC] - 11/22/1993*
Sen Domenici, Pete V.
*[NM] - 11/22/1993*
Sen Lugar, Richard G.
*[IN] - 11/22/1993*
Sen Grassley, Chuck
*[IA] - 11/22/1993*
Sen Durenberger, Dave
*[MN] - 11/22/1993*
Sen Boren, David L.
*[OK] - 5/17/1994
Sen Kerrey, J. Robert
*[NE] - 5/17/1994





*
 
Last edited:
#387
#387
Gramps, they aren't going to respond to the fact of the matter, which is that this idea was floated by the GOP on more than one occasion , including by their own current presidential nominee.

Romney is on record advocating that the individual mandate be done at the national level. If the GOP thinks this issue is the way to win the WH, the Obama campaign will chew him up.

You just aren't going to see a ton of mention of this in the debates or in Romney's ads (his own and super-pac) because it is a major weakness for him.
 
#388
#388
Gramps said:
It is public record.


In 1993, 23 Republican senators, including then-Minority Leader Robert Dole, cosponsored a bill introduced by Senator John Chafee that sought to achieve universal coverage through a mandate that is, a mandate on individuals to buy insurance.

Nearly every major health care interest group had endorsed substantial reforms--grandiose ones, in fact. The American Medical Association (AMA) and Health Insurance Association of America (HIAA), the two great, historic bastions of opposition to compulsory health insurance, both went on record in support of an employer mandate and universal coverage. Even the U.S. Chamber of Commerce endorsed an
employer mandate, as did many large corporation.


Senate Bill S770 introduced Nov1993
list of co sponsors
Sen Dole, Robert J.
*[KS] - 11/22/1993*
Sen Bond, Christopher S.
*[MO] - 11/22/1993*
Sen Hatfield, Mark O.
*[OR] - 11/22/1993*
Sen Bennett, Robert F.
*[UT] - 11/22/1993*
Sen Hatch, Orrin G.
*[UT] - 11/22/1993*
Sen Danforth, John C.
*[MO] - 11/22/1993*
Sen Brown, Hank
*[CO] - 11/22/1993(withdrawn - 10/4/1994)*
Sen Gorton, Slade
*[WA] - 11/22/1993*
Sen Simpson, Alan K.
*[WY] - 11/22/1993*
Sen Stevens, Ted
*[AK] - 11/22/1993*
Sen Cohen, William S.
*[ME] - 11/22/1993*
Sen Kassebaum, Nancy Landon
*[KS] - 11/22/1993*
Sen Warner, John
*[VA] - 11/22/1993*
Sen Specter, Arlen
*[PA] - 11/22/1993*
Sen Faircloth, Lauch
*[NC] - 11/22/1993*
Sen Domenici, Pete V.
*[NM] - 11/22/1993*
Sen Lugar, Richard G.
*[IN] - 11/22/1993*
Sen Grassley, Chuck
*[IA] - 11/22/1993*
Sen Durenberger, Dave
*[MN] - 11/22/1993*
Sen Boren, David L.
*[OK] - 5/17/1994
Sen Kerrey, J. Robert
*[NE] - 5/17/1994





*
Click to expand...
there's no doubt that there were Republicans behind the idea, but that was an opposition bill that they knew was DOA with Clinton in the White House and a Democratic majority in the House. There's no disputing that you're technically correct, but I think it discounts a little the political environment of the time which had the GOP playing defense against Hillarycare.

As an aside . . . That list reads like a RINO all star team.
 
#390
#390
Another Republican health care bill — these were filed in response to President Bill Clinton's push for health care reforms of his own — included an individual mandate. Its co-sponsors included Sen. Trent Lott of Mississippi and Sen. Jesse Helms of North Carolina.
 
#391
#391
lawgator1 said:
Gramps, they aren't going to respond to the fact of the matter, which is that this idea was floated by the GOP on more than one occasion , including by their own current presidential nominee.
Click to expand...

I've responded numerous times, and you've never responded in kind.

What was proposed in '93 is completely irrelevant. None of those folks are running for president. Most aren't even running for Congress.

While I disagree with Romney's logical gymnastics in trying to differentiate between his plan and the ACA, it will not, and cannot, matter to voters who want the ACA repealed. Romney's history on the matter would only be relevant if there was another option for repeal.
 
#392
#392
Gramps said:
Another Republican health care bill — these were filed in response to President Bill Clinton's push for health care reforms of his own — included an individual mandate. Its co-sponsors included Sen. Trent Lott of Mississippi and Sen. Jesse Helms of North Carolina.
Click to expand...

Two statesmen........lord almighty
 
#393
#393
bamawriter said:
I've responded numerous times, and you've never responded in kind.

What was proposed in '93 is completely irrelevant. None of those folks are running for president. Most aren't even running for Congress.

While I disagree with Romney's logical gymnastics in trying to differentiate between his plan and the ACA, it will not, and cannot, matter to voters who want the ACA repealed. Romney's history on the matter would only be relevant if there was another option for repeal.
Click to expand...


So you are okay with voting for a guy who just 3 years ago touted the very policy that he now says is unconstitutional?

I know politicians say whatever they need to in order to try to get elected, but this is an exceptional example of that, given the histrionics of the GOP over the issue now.
 
#394
#394
lawgator1 said:
So you are okay with voting for a guy who just 3 years ago touted the very policy that he now says is unconstitutional?

I know politicians say whatever they need to in order to try to get elected, but this is an exceptional example of that, given the histrionics of the GOP over the issue now.
Click to expand...

Histronics lmao

Historicity
 
#395
#395
lawgator1 said:
Gramps, they aren't going to respond to the fact of the matter, which is that this idea was floated by the GOP on more than one occasion , including by their own current presidential nominee.

Romney is on record advocating that the individual mandate be done at the national level. If the GOP thinks this issue is the way to win the WH, the Obama campaign will chew him up.



You just aren't going to see a ton of mention of this in the debates or in Romney's ads (his own and super-pac) because it is a major weakness for him.
Click to expand...


Agree.

The bills introduced in the 1990's are relevant today.

Some of the same GOP members that cosponsored legislation in 1993 requiring mandate are now saying it is unconstitutional.

Why does the GOP consider a mandate unconstitutional today after sponsoring bills in 1993 requiring a mandate.

If is is unconstitutional now it was unconstitutional 1993.

This issue shows the hypocrisy of the GOP.

The Dems are also hypocrites.
 
#396
#396
lawgator1 said:
So you are okay with voting for a guy who just 3 years ago touted the very policy that he now says is unconstitutional?

I know politicians say whatever they need to in order to try to get elected, but this is an exceptional example of that, given the histrionics of the GOP over the issue now.
Click to expand...

As long as Romney sticks to his argument that it was a state solution to a state problem, I think he's OK.
 
#397
#397
GAVol said:
As long as Romney sticks to his argument that it was a state solution to a state problem, I think he's OK.
Click to expand...

Romney cannot stick to any issue.... He is a class A flipfopper.

As bad a POTUS GW was, he did stick to his convictions.

Obama is a disaster, Romney is no better.
 
#399
#399
Gramps said:
Agree.

The bills introduced in the 1990's are relevant today.

Some of the same GOP members that cosponsored legislation in 1993 requiring mandate are now saying it is unconstitutional.

Why does the GOP consider a mandate unconstitutional today after sponsoring bills in 1993 requiring a mandate.

If is is unconstitutional now it was unconstitutional 1993.

This issue shows the hypocrisy of the GOP.

The Dems are also hypocrites.
Click to expand...

I get what you're saying, it is true that the mandate started with the Heritage Foundation and the GOP.

There is also something to the idea that they needed an alternative to Clinton's attempted reform, same as we're now seeing Republicans who talk about repealing the ACA asked ad nauseum "What would you replace it with?"

But the biggest thing to note with that list you posted is that was definitely the moderate wing of the GOP, and just about all the moderates have been purged from the party at this point.
 
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