Swan Song

#26
#26
Chris89128 said:
Not true, I'm just not an irrational fan. Turnovers and missed layups, lost today's game, it's that simple There is a big difference between constructive criticism, and blaming the coach for anything and everything. Russell said in postgame press, We have to go up stronger and finish layups through contact. We practice it all the time. To some I guess that's bad coaching and Holly's fault too.
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Turnovers and missed layups were part of the problem. Their quick arse guard was a major problem. Actually seemed any of their players had no trouble getting into the paint when they needed.
 
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#27
#27
Diamond is a turnover machine. It has to be a conundrum for the staff. She has so much talent but seems to lack focus and intensity. She made 10 of the team's 21 turn overs today and for the most part they were unforced, just lazy stuff. Nared had 5 TO's, that's 15 trips down the floor where you just give points away by 2 players who played 37 and 38 minutes. They aren't freshman, they know better and we all know the coaches aren't to blame for them being so careless, sloppy even, with the ball in their hands.
 
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#28
#28
vol66 said:
Diamond is a turnover machine. It has to be a conundrum for the staff. She has so much talent but seems to lack focus and intensity. She made 10 of the team's 21 turn overs today and for the most part they were unforced, just lazy stuff. Nared had 5 TO's, that's 15 trips down the floor where you just give points away by 2 players who played 37 and 38 minutes. They aren't freshman, they know better and we all know the coaches aren't to blame for them being so careless, sloppy even, with the ball in their hands.
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You sit their butts. If you had more players of course.
 
#30
#30
cwbytruckers said:
You sit their butts. If you had more players of course.
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I think that was tried last year wasn't it? I'm sure they have tried all sorts of things, but this particular group doesn't seem to have a tough spirit collectively and I'm not sure they can be made to feel the tradition of the program, it's like they don't have a grasp of it...they don't feel the weight of the losses as they should in my opinion...because it seems to be getting easier and more acceptable.

You only need five at a time. I watch the presser of the Vandy loss and every player to a man called it unacceptable and embarrassing...I don't see the pain or hear those words from these players.
 
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#32
#32
cwbytruckers said:
It's getting harder and harder to watch that's for sure.
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It is...I just watched the press conference by DD and Russell...the part where DD rubs her head against/scratches her head against the microphone...

To have to get up and go deal with that everyday must be a real pleasure...even if you're getting the "big bucks".
 
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#33
#33
DR2 said:
Um, so they really want to play for Holly?

I don't think so. They want to play for the Vols and a 9th NC, and those are two totally opposite things.
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Yeah, I think the girls in that class would be drooling over the playing time they are likely to be getting. Coaching change may not matter much.
 
#34
#34
Chris89128 said:
Not true, I'm just not an irrational fan. Turnovers and missed layups, lost today's game, it's that simple
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You say this like those aren't two of the hallmarks of teams she coaches. The other one you could add is a stagnant offense with little movement --- which also caused us to lose.

We have run enough players through the roster to know that these are systemic problems. If you have really good players it only masks them. But she just doesn't field teams which take care of the ball or shoot well. And this is related to the offense we run and how we teach it.
 
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#35
#35
Well, then let's make it simple. Either Holly has to go or she gets some new staff members that can motivate and teach, especially offense. If she can't have an impact on her players, she needs to find coaches who can. As Pat herself said, surround yourself with good people.

I like Dean as a person, but he is not getting it done with the posts. How many missed layups from the bigs have we seen in the last few years? Can the bigs shoot consistently from 15 feet in? No. He is not getting everything he can from their talent.

I'd keep the new coach for now because it appears she can recruit. I'd even replace Law. She seemed like a good hire at the time because she had several Rutgers players coached up to playing in the WNBA, but I don't think our guard play has improved one iota since she has been here. The team still can't shoot and still averages 18 or more turnovers a game. Even did that when we had a true point guard, Ariel.

Change has to happen somewhere.
 
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#36
#36
Orange_Mamba said:
Every post you make on here is defending Holly. She's getting paid millions of dollars to win. You act when people criticize her it's unwarranted, as you can see by their play it's totally justified.
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She isnt getting millions -- she was one of Harts bargain basement hires
 
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#39
#39
Chris89128 said:
Holly signed them, so yes they want to play for her. Clearly you don't know what went into putting the recruiting class together.
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I do know what went into recruiting last year's class, which was nothing. It is the Vol name that brings them to Knoxville, not a coach who takes top recruits and turns them into junior high players. And lord help the players if they are coming for a "nice, sweet, understanding coach," because both they and the fans are in for four very frustrating years.
 
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#40
#40
Chris, this simply isn't true. The entire class won't leave if Holly is let go. Will one or two, possibly? It comes down to Holly's replacement. Most of these young women choose Tennessee for its history, facilities and fans. If we get a coach with experience, intelligence, drive and desire, this program will return with a bang. There are still only a handful of programs who can recruit with Tennessee. Pat's legacy alone ensures a certain cache when it comes to enticing high-school players from all over the country for a visit to the Summitt on Rocky Top.

Don't fear change. Status quo is stinking it up in here!
 
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#41
#41
Chris89128 said:
They made the Elite 8 last year, so please stop. Did ND? Did SC? No. I agree they have issues, and the big one this year is they have no healthy true PG. I expected a player or two to step up. So far they have not. If I were Holly, I'd bench her, but with 8 healthy players, she may feel she can't. I disagree, but I am not in charge.
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I think the numbers of healthy players has had a significant impact as has not having a true point guard or depth at the point. It is what it is. The players will adapt in time.
 
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#42
#42
Rickster said:
I think the numbers of healthy players has had a significant impact as has not having a true point guard or depth at the point. It is what it is. The players will adapt in time.
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What? We had three able pg's last year Te'a and Jordan split the duty plus Lex got minutes there too. We have two points this year. By the way Jordan's been running point since was little. Now the game has grown so much there are no true set positions the point and two guards are interchangeable
 
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#43
#43
For all the people who say all I do is defend Holly, here's how I really feel.

1. Holly with the help of ALL her assistants just signed the consensus #1 class in the country.

2. Like it or not they WANT play for Holly. I firmly believe that especially after reading the recent article Dan Fleser did regarding recruiting.

3. For years now all people have done is complained about how Holly gets beat by other programs when it comes to recruiting. This year she out recruited ND, MD, SC, UK, among others for players everyone wanted. I know firsthand some coaches used every trick in the book to land these players and failed.

4. I think Holly waited too long to cut ties with Elzy. I am not sure if it was out of loyalty or whatever, but I think it should have been done sooner. The results speak for themselves once the change was made. I also think Holly allowed Elzy to cast too narrow a recruiting net in 2016.

5. This year I think Holly due to a small roster has tied her own hands a bit. I think Reynolds should be taken out of the starting lineup, until she proves she wants to lead this team. All of our guards are lazy on defense. Not one has stepped up in Cooper's absence to lead this team. They don't rebound enough either. Holly and the staff need to force them through whatever means necessary to play harder and smarter. Diamond needs to play under control, and the entire team needs to play with more focus and passion. If they do not Holly should sit them. Yesterday, I would have pulled the starting 5 in the 1st quarter, except Russell. They all started the game lazy and unfocused.

6. The players need to understand to value being a Lady Vol. That is Holly's job too. She needs to challenge them on a different level. If I were her I would use the phrase, "Continue Pat's legacy" as much as I could. Some of the players don't seem to care about playing hard or winning.

7. Holly had a great game plan yesterday. VT was 2-20 from 3. They average 7 makes a game. TN lost by 4, if layups were made and a few less turnovers, TN wins.

All these things are fixable, but it is HOLLY's responsibility to do it.
 
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#45
#45
There was a lot of talk about all these players being in the gym all summer and we would see the difference. I see no difference none of them can shoot the ball. It is sad but true that no one on this team is a consistent shooter. I expect we will shoot better at home and we have put ourselves in the position that we need to win against Baylor and Stanford. I would like to think we will improve except under Holly we never get better an the season progresses.
 
#46
#46
Volfan2012 said:
There was a lot of talk about all these players being in the gym all summer and we would see the difference. I see no difference none of them can shoot the ball. It is sad but true that no one on this team is a consistent shooter. I expect we will shoot better at home and we have put ourselves in the position that we need to win against Baylor and Stanford. I would like to think we will improve except under Holly we never get better an the season progresses.
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The offense is better, the shooting is not.
 
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#47
#47
How are the responsibilities divided out by the coaches including Holly?

Is there one person that scouts and prepares the game plan?

Is there an assistant assigned to post, guards, forwards?

Is there a specialist for offense and defense?

Also, how can someone miss a layup multiple times and the VT guards just went thru the defense like butter.

Baylor will bully Tennessee and Stanford will back cut Tennessee

I would rather the players play hard even if that means fouling out. Could it be they have a mental block about committing fouls and play too safe?
 
#48
#48
Chris89128 said:
7. Holly had a great game plan yesterday. VT was 2-20 from 3. They average 7 makes a game. TN lost by 4, if layups were made and a few less turnovers, TN wins.
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Do you know what Holly's gameplan was, or do you assume it was great because VT went 2-20 from long-range? Because a lot of those misses were wide open looks. Combined with all of the missed FTs and about as many missed layups as Tennessee missed, it appeared that VT won despite being far from their "A" game.

If you are going to credit Holly's great game plan because of VTs poor 3-point shooting, then equal credit should go to Kenny Brooks for causing Tennessee to miss all of those point blank uncontested layups and the 21 turnovers.
 
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#49
#49
Chris89128 said:
For all the people who say all I do is defend Holly, here's how I really feel.

1. Holly with the help of ALL her assistants just signed the consensus #1 class in the country.

2. Like it or not they WANT play for Holly. I firmly believe that especially after reading the recent article Dan Fleser did regarding recruiting.

3. For years now all people have done is complained about how Holly gets beat by other programs when it comes to recruiting. This year she out recruited ND, MD, SC, UK, among others for players everyone wanted. I know firsthand some coaches used every trick in the book to land these players and failed.

4. I think Holly waited too long to cut ties with Elzy. I am not sure if it was out of loyalty or whatever, but I think it should have been done sooner. The results speak for themselves once the change was made. I also think Holly allowed Elzy to cast too narrow a recruiting net in 2016.

5. This year I think Holly due to a small roster has tied her own hands a bit. I think Reynolds should be taken out of the starting lineup, until she proves she wants to lead this team. All of our guards are lazy on defense. Not one has stepped up in Cooper's absence to lead this team. They don't rebound enough either. Holly and the staff need to force them through whatever means necessary to play harder and smarter. Diamond needs to play under control, and the entire team needs to play with more focus and passion. If they do not Holly should sit them. Yesterday, I would have pulled the starting 5 in the 1st quarter, except Russell. They all started the game lazy and unfocused.

6. The players need to understand to value being a Lady Vol. That is Holly's job too. She needs to challenge them on a different level. If I were her I would use the phrase, "Continue Pat's legacy" as much as I could. Some of the players don't seem to care about playing hard or winning.

7. Holly had a great game plan yesterday. VT was 2-20 from 3. They average 7 makes a game. TN lost by 4, if layups were made and a few less turnovers, TN wins.

All these things are fixable, but it is HOLLY's responsibility to do it.
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1. You just said you don't defend Holly all the time. Then you list a bunch of reasons defending her putting the total blame on the players and telling us why Holly is not at fault too. You're truly unbelievable going above and beyond to die on that hill.

2. Saying Holly got us the no. 1 class is like saying McCallie got Duke a top 10 class. 🗣(It's not for the coaching).
The spotlight, the fan support, and the talent to win is why they choose UT.

3. Westbrook chose UT because she could imagine herself in the uniform playing on the court. Hayes fell in love with the program and atmosphere. Kasi picked UT for the business school and she thinks it give her a platform for the WNBA. Davis picked UT also for the business school and Hayes recruitment.

4. The offense has looked inept since the beginning. We just had playmakers who masked the problems. Everybody and their momma knows the game plan every game is to get the ball inside and they still have no idea how to beat a zone. There's no fast ball movement, cutting, screening, running the baseline, heck do they even use anyone at the free throw line. The first time she sees them standing around on offense she should call a timeout and chew into them.

5. For her to be preaching defense, defense, defense they can't play a lick of D. Can't defend the three point line. Can't defend the paint. Don't know what a box out is. Even though you see Va Tech shooting terrible from three a good thing, it was still bad because they were open for MAJORITY of them. They just wasn't dropping for them trust it wasn't nothing UT did and that great game plan ended in a loss
 
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#50
#50
Some of us have tried to find some levity...at Holly's expense, although the HC should expect criticism given the results...to try to ease the ongoing disappointment.

As someone said in a related thread, Holly has devoted most of her adult life to the LV & has been an integral part of past successes. All LV fans owe her a great deal of gratitude for that. At the same time, that complimentary poster acknowledged that Holly just isn't getting the program at the level where it should be (and the decline began before Holly took the job). Even with coaches who have won NC, Super Bowls, Series, etc., sometimes it's just painfully obvious that a change is needed. And new blood & new ideas can pump life back into a program that has been stagnating but still draws interest from major talent.

Holly could save herself a lot of grief and step aside for the good of the program. It takes a big woman to swallow her pride & admit that perhaps someone else could do better, but unless there's a radical change, this season is going to be a stinker. And, yes, the lack of bench depth is the staff's fault, so injuries can't be used as the sole excuse.

The thing is...Holly has potentially restocked the larder with the next recruiting classes. She can stay & try to reap the credit if they succeed or the blame if they don't. Or she can know that she at least has done one last major favor to help restore the LV luster in bringing in some top recruits. That accomplishment might be the best thing she's done or ever could do as a head coach & would go a long way toward winning over her biggest critics for the long term. I can't support her head coaching style, but I'd stand in line to shake her hand for signing the talent that a new coach could take to build a championship team. And Holly could share in the credit for that.
 
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