Swan Song

#51
#51
Chris89128 said:
For all the people who say all I do is defend Holly, here's how I really feel.

1. Holly with the help of ALL her assistants just signed the consensus #1 class in the country.

2. Like it or not they WANT play for Holly. I firmly believe that especially after reading the recent article Dan Fleser did regarding recruiting.

3. For years now all people have done is complained about how Holly gets beat by other programs when it comes to recruiting. This year she out recruited ND, MD, SC, UK, among others for players everyone wanted. I know firsthand some coaches used every trick in the book to land these players and failed.

4. I think Holly waited too long to cut ties with Elzy. I am not sure if it was out of loyalty or whatever, but I think it should have been done sooner. The results speak for themselves once the change was made. I also think Holly allowed Elzy to cast too narrow a recruiting net in 2016.

5. This year I think Holly due to a small roster has tied her own hands a bit. I think Reynolds should be taken out of the starting lineup, until she proves she wants to lead this team. All of our guards are lazy on defense. Not one has stepped up in Cooper's absence to lead this team. They don't rebound enough either. Holly and the staff need to force them through whatever means necessary to play harder and smarter. Diamond needs to play under control, and the entire team needs to play with more focus and passion. If they do not Holly should sit them. Yesterday, I would have pulled the starting 5 in the 1st quarter, except Russell. They all started the game lazy and unfocused.

6. The players need to understand to value being a Lady Vol. That is Holly's job too. She needs to challenge them on a different level. If I were her I would use the phrase, "Continue Pat's legacy" as much as I could. Some of the players don't seem to care about playing hard or winning.

7. Holly had a great game plan yesterday. VT was 2-20 from 3. They average 7 makes a game. TN lost by 4, if layups were made and a few less turnovers, TN wins.

All these things are fixable, but it is HOLLY's responsibility to do it.
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Regarding #7. Does that mean if the opposition shoots well from the 3 pt line, it was because it was not in the game plan ?
I watched a replay of the game. Some of VT's 3's were contested and some weren't. It appeared to me that they were just having a poor shooting night from 3. Did Holly also plan the D against VT's foul shooting ?
Yes, Holly pulled in the #1 recruiting class in the nation.
Last year's team had a #1, #3, #4, #6 and a #12 (IIRC) in the starting lineup. How did that work out ?
I agree with you " all of these things are fixable".
The problem is these same deficiencies were visible all of last year and nothing has changed, so far, this year.
How long should we wait ?
 
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#54
#54
Amb3096 said:
Do you know what Holly's gameplan was, or do you assume it was great because VT went 2-20 from long-range? Because a lot of those misses were wide open looks. Combined with all of the missed FTs and about as many missed layups as Tennessee missed, it appeared that VT won despite being far from their "A" game.

If you are going to credit Holly's great game plan because of VTs poor 3-point shooting, then equal credit should go to Kenny Brooks for causing Tennessee to miss all of those point blank uncontested layups and the 21 turnovers.
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I agree with you 100%. VT was not on their best game and we could not beat them. Why didn't Holly come up with an in game change to stop VT from slicing through our defense like a knife through butter? We never make in game changes to offset what the other team is doing, we just allow them to continue to make us look clueless. We don't even make half time changes.
 
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#55
#55
I am starting to think DD is the LVs Hurd. Watch her body language and facial expressions, she looks like she would rather be anywhere besides on the basketball court. Sometimes, a HC, has to bench the star to give the rest of the team a message
 
#56
#56
Chris89128 said:
The offense is better, the shooting is not.
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Yeah, the offense is about one basket better than last year and the defense is more than three baskets worse. That kind of trend doesn't usually mean good things.

After five games last year, the Vols versus opponents' ppg was 71.0 - 56.0. This year it's 73.6 - 63.8. And last year at this time they'd actually beaten a ranked opponent, knocked off PSU, and weren't being listed last among the 12 teams in the SEC.

But as you say, the offense is maybe doing a bit better, which is a coat heavily dusted with sugar.
 
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#57
#57
The Dog said:
I am starting to think DD is the LVs Hurd. Watch her body language and facial expressions, she looks like she would rather be anywhere besides on the basketball court. Sometimes, a HC, has to bench the star to give the rest of the team a message
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Except unlike Hurd, there isn't a better player sitting on the bench who can replace DD....
 
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#58
#58
DR2 said:
But as you say, the offense is maybe doing a bit better, which is a coat heavily dusted with sugar.
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What games are you watching? The standing around, the excessive dribbling, crappy shooting, and ridiculous number of turnovers.... clearly a completely different offense than last year.... :whatever:
 
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#59
#59
It's not all DD. She does play defense. Nared is scared of contact, throw up dumb shots and expect a foul. Middleton can't guard anyone. Meme acts like she's never played before. Reynolds hasnt been a leader at all. Russell is so soft and weak and scared of contact.
 
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#60
#60
secfanclub said:
There is a very fine line to follow when coaching kids today. A good percentage of kids want to play and excel, but they don't want to put in the time and effort required to push themselves beyond a certain threshold to reach their best. Some players are self-motivated and do not need pushing by the coach. lt is the coach, in many instances, to push the other players beyond their comfort zone. Some coaches have a natural knack for reaching players and drawing out the best from them. From watching Holly for several years, it is obvious the players love her, but she doesn't seem to have the ability to capture their attention when it comes to motivating and developing their no-quit attitude. Some players will go "beyond the call of duty" and do anything to sacrifice for their coach. l don't see that desire and drive from our Lady Vols to go that extra mile. A good coach commands and demands the best always from players. When Holly says her players have outstanding practices, but they do not deliver in the game, there is a flaw in transferring what she teaches in practice to game situations. This is mostly from mental preparation and discipline of the team. Holly needs to re-examine her coaching methods because she is not reaching all of her players. The fact that last years team played better in the tournament than they did most of the regular season is probably a good indication they are not willing to play until they have to.
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This is an excellent analysis of what is happening to the Lady Vols!
 
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#61
#61
Darth_Vol said:
What games are you watching? The standing around, the excessive dribbling, crappy shooting, and ridiculous number of turnovers.... clearly a completely different offense than last year.... :whatever:
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Just going by the 5 game numbers and the 2.6 ppg improvement. Maybe they're playing a tiny bit more uptempo, or that after standing around for 20 seconds, one more desperation heave is caroming in. But somehow the Vols are scoring a little more than last year in the early games.

Of course with a Massey SOS ranking of 41st, it could also be that the Vols have just been playing more defensively inept opponents so far.
 
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#63
#63
Right now we have players that were ranked 1,2, 6, 28, and 42 starting and they can't beat teams without any players in the top 100. So I don't know if recruit rankings really make any difference with Holly. Those girls we have coming in are top players in this class and we'll see if they remain top players when the Holly effect comes into play next season. Will their offensive, defensive, and ability to pass the ball all go to where our current players are now. I guess Holly will be around long enough for us to find out. We will finally know for sure that the Holly effect kills players games or that the current players were way overrated and had no business being ranked as high as they were.
 
#64
#64
Volfan2012 said:
Right now we have players that were ranked 1,2, 6, 28, and 42 starting and they can't beat teams without any players in the top 100. So I don't know if recruit rankings really make any difference with Holly. Those girls we have coming in are top players in this class and we'll see if they remain top players when the Holly effect comes into play next season. Will their offensive, defensive, and ability to pass the ball all go to where our current players are now. I guess Holly will be around long enough for us to find out. We will finally know for sure that the Holly effect kills players games or that the current players were way overrated and had no business being ranked as high as they were.
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Exactly. For the first time as a Lady Vol fan, I'm simply not excited about the class we've recruited because I know how our coaching staff does with the players it recruits. I'm prepared for disappointment and underachieving. Why would anyone suddenly expect a different result?
 
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#65
#65
Volfan2012 said:
Right now we have players that were ranked 1,2, 6, 28, and 42 starting and they can't beat teams without any players in the top 100. So I don't know if recruit rankings really make any difference with Holly. Those girls we have coming in are top players in this class and we'll see if they remain top players when the Holly effect comes into play next season. Will their offensive, defensive, and ability to pass the ball all go to where our current players are now. I guess Holly will be around long enough for us to find out. We will finally know for sure that the Holly effect kills players games or that the current players were way overrated and had no business being ranked as high as they were.
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It's the fundamentals that they are not being taught or they just do not execute! I have seen/played games where everyone in the gym knows the play before you run it (including the opposing team) BUT if you use good sound basketball principles and screens/picks/rolls/etc. The play will work!!!!! No defense can stop good fundamentals if they will just execute the play! We do not normally run set plays (just out of bounds) Until someone screens/picks/rolls there is not a set play but just free lancing and reaction!
The plays we run are supposed to be read and react? Or just freelancing the ball! This works well with players that have played together for years . MANY MANY YEARS!!
Our players obviously not being taught set plays or sound fundamentals???? This is why they fail!😈
 
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#66
#66
Star players getting career highs- 15. Tennessee's stout defense -0. Like I said every game we play someone's going to have a new career high against us.
 
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#69
#69
What differences does it make about our recruiting class? We have a team full of HS AAs and some people are acting like this recruiting class -- in a class WITHOUT a star player -- is somehow going to save us. It isn't the players that are the problem.

And let's also keep in mind that recruiting the last two years has been absolutely ridiculously bad. One great class isn't going to make up for two horrendous ones. The staff is going to have to stack good classes together -- two or three of them -- if we are to ever become an elite program again. Because as it stands we aren't a top 15 program, and that's a direct result of coaching, because the good Lord knows we have top 15 talent. Even with two horrendous classes. And even with all that talent, the staff is going to have to find a way to not make the team look like a Chinese fire drill on the court. The lack of fundamentals, the lack of play calling, the lazy passes, the excessive dribbling, the bad shooting. It's just BAD.
 
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#70
#70
Chris, I think that whether or not the class would stay or bolt would depend on what coach succeeded Holly.

If recruits were to perceive Warlick's replacement as a no-name newbie, they might think about moving on. But if Tennessee were to bring in a highly respected, successful, big-name coach? I think they'd still want to play in The House that Pat Built, surrounded by evidence of past glories that would serve as daily reminders of what they can bring back.

I do believe ALL these young women would choose to play at Tennessee if the right replacement is hired. (Whenever that might be, sooner OR much later)
 
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#71
#71
creekdipper said:
Some of us have tried to find some levity...at Holly's expense, although the HC should expect criticism given the results...to try to ease the ongoing disappointment.

As someone said in a related thread, Holly has devoted most of her adult life to the LV & has been an integral part of past successes. All LV fans owe her a great deal of gratitude for that. At the same time, that complimentary poster acknowledged that Holly just isn't getting the program at the level where it should be (and the decline began before Holly took the job). Even with coaches who have won NC, Super Bowls, Series, etc., sometimes it's just painfully obvious that a change is needed. And new blood & new ideas can pump life back into a program that has been stagnating but still draws interest from major talent.

Holly could save herself a lot of grief and step aside for the good of the program. It takes a big woman to swallow her pride & admit that perhaps someone else could do better, but unless there's a radical change, this season is going to be a stinker. And, yes, the lack of bench depth is the staff's fault, so injuries can't be used as the sole excuse.

The thing is...Holly has potentially restocked the larder with the next recruiting classes. She can stay & try to reap the credit if they succeed or the blame if they don't. Or she can know that she at least has done one last major favor to help restore the LV luster in bringing in some top recruits. That accomplishment might be the best thing she's done or ever could do as a head coach & would go a long way toward winning over her biggest critics for the long term. I can't support her head coaching style, but I'd stand in line to shake her hand for signing the talent that a new coach could take to build a championship team. And Holly could share in the credit for that.
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I agree with you. Holly needs to step down and turn the HC position over to Kyra Elzy. Kyra will get in the players face and demand that they play like a LV.
 
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