Sweeping Sexual Assault Suit Filed Against UT

[Iam4utalways]

No one involved in the lawsuit is alleging someone from law enforcement called Jones to give him a heads up for the purpose of a cover up...at least not yet.


This lawsuit has literally nothing to do with whether Jones suspended a football player from the team as people here keep suggesting.

This lawsuit, and all the ones around the country, are about how the alleged victims are treated based on the policies in place.

These are policies put in place by The University of Tennessee to protect alleged victims, should they come forward, in compliance with Title IX.

Did they follow their own policy?

For instance...The NCAA requires a school to have a drug testing policy and follow the policy. Syracuse did not follow their policy and they suffered a penalty...not much of one because they are in the Final Four...but we're dealing with a federal court, not the NCAA here.

I guess I missed the lawsuits allegations. All this time I thought it was about how athletes were treated different from the rest of the student body, creating a rape culture. And the way allegations against athletes, were handled different by UT is what has created a rape culture. Even tho state law dictates the process of how UT is to handle these allegations, the suit claims, UT by following this process had created a rape culture.

There is no rape culture at UT.

 

[vol66]

I guess I missed the lawsuits allegations. All this time I thought it was about how athletes were treated different from the rest of the student body, creating a rape culture. And the way allegations against athletes, were handled different by UT is what has created a rape culture. Even tho state law dictates the process of how UT is to handle these allegations, the suit claims, UT by following this process had created a rape culture.

There is no rape culture at UT.

That is alleged, but yawl were discussing the media's vendetta versus Tennessee while claiming Jones has done everything correctly...which at least on the surface, it would appear he has.

Being suspended from the football team does not mean you are suspended from school. Being suspended from school means you are also suspended from football and the coach has no say in that.

Recall the curious case of Von Pearson.

The Bowles issue is one thing...one incident...what about this?

Ex-official accuses UT athletics of influencing student discipline


I'm not taking the time to type all this out and have this discussion for my health or to be a know it all jack off...but this fear mongering that something is going to bring down the football program is exactly why the lawsuit was filed in the first place.

Do your own timeline and ask yourself this question...

If UT knew this lawsuit was eminent, did it have an affect on the way they handled Von Pearson's case compared to Johnson/Williams?

If so, why?

 

[vol66]

On if UT knew this lawsuit was eminent...

More than seven months before a federal lawsuit was filed against the University of Tennessee and less than two weeks before UT President Joe DiPietro was notified of Title IX complaints sent to the U.S. Department of Education, an outside lawyer was hired to help the university with "allegations involving Title IX."

Bill Ramsey, a lawyer with the Nashville-based firm Neal & Harwell, was hired as "additional counsel to provide legal services" to the state and university, according to a letter from Gov. Bill Haslam to Ramsey dated June 18.

"They (the university) understood this lawsuit would be coming," Ramsey said.

Although Ramsey was hired months before the federal lawsuit was filed in Nashville, his hiring was just weeks before DiPietro was notified on June 29 and again on July 1 that the U.S. Department of Education's Office for Civil Rights would be investigating complaints about the Knoxville campus.

Ramsey said Thursday that his hiring was not related to those complaints and responses to the OCR were handled by UT legal counsel.

Those complaints to the OCR were filed on May 15 and May 18 and allege that UT failed to respond "promptly and adequately" to cases of sexual violence, creating a "hostile environment" for complainants.

Ramsey said Thursday that his hiring was not related to those complaints and responses to the OCR were handled by UT legal counsel.

Lawyer for UT hired by Haslam months before federal Title IX lawsuit

 

[drylo]

On if UT knew this lawsuit was eminent...







Lawyer for UT hired by Haslam months before federal Title IX lawsuit

Von Pearson incident happened months before that, though. Is your name Randolph Smith, by chance?

 

[Remy]

I guess I missed the lawsuits allegations. All this time I thought it was about how athletes were treated different from the rest of the student body, creating a rape culture. And the way allegations against athletes, were handled different by UT is what has created a rape culture. Even tho state law dictates the process of how UT is to handle these allegations, the suit claims, UT by following this process had created a rape culture.

There is no rape culture at UT.

Exactly(There is no rape culture at UT)!!!! Why? Would you not have to require multiple rapes to occur for a culture to be in place?!?!? One rape a culture does not make I would submit. Secondly these accusers have yet to prove in a court of criminal law, which are where rape charges are adjudicated, one rape by a football player. Lots of chin music, supposition, and unproven hurled accusations that some including some people on VN take at face value as true and then promote that. The falsely accused Duke lacrosse team appreciates some of your "open" minds ... Not!

A premise of a culture of charity to be in place requires charity to actually have occurred for it to be true. The premise of a rape culture to be true requires actual rapes to have occurred. Waiting,hopefully forever, for the first Vol football player to be convicted of rape.

 

[Iam4utalways]

That is alleged, but yawl were discussing the media's vendetta versus Tennessee while claiming Jones has done everything correctly...which at least on the surface, it would appear he has.

Being suspended from the football team does not mean you are suspended from school. Being suspended from school means you are also suspended from football and the coach has no say in that.

Recall the curious case of Von Pearson.

The Bowles issue is one thing...one incident...what about this?

Ex-official accuses UT athletics of influencing student discipline


I'm not taking the time to type all this out and have this discussion for my health or to be a know it all jack off...but this fear mongering that something is going to bring down the football program is exactly why the lawsuit was filed in the first place.

Do your own timeline and ask yourself this question...

If UT knew this lawsuit was eminent, did it have an affect on the way they handled Von Pearson's case compared to Johnson/Williams?

If so, why?

I have to admit, I have not gotten much info on Pearson's case.

What I gathered from the linked article, sounds like there was some heated discussions over how the entire student body was being disciplined for minor infractions. Of corse if you are tough on Joe Schmoe student then you gotta be tough on an athlete, but if you take it easy on Joe then you can take it easy on an athlete too.

It was kind of sneaky to only count student on student crime when it comes to rape charges.

So did the Title IX lawsuit back down from the allegation of "creating a rape culture"?

 

[Kristy*]

I don't do snarky. Sorry if it came across that way.

. . .

Thank you. :hi: My mistake. But we'll have to agree to disagree on what certain articles were implying with the way they told the timeline story.

. . .


Recall the curious case of Von Pearson.

. . .

Do your own timeline and ask yourself this question...

If UT knew this lawsuit was eminent, did it have an affect on the way they handled Von Pearson's case compared to Johnson/Williams?

If so, why?

UT (the school, not the football program) did handle Pearson's case more harshly. By not wanting to appear to show favoritism, they instead showed prejudice. They suspended him based on allegations alone. No evidence. Look where that got them. They were wrong. He could have sued the school (and won) for denying him an education. Maybe he should. That could help their case by showing they're in a no-win situation. Schools don't have the resources or expertise to handle cases of this seriousness.

With how they handled Johnson/Williams. There is nothing to suggest they handled it inappropriately. They allowed the young men to continue getting an education until they were indicted. Their alleged incident happened off-campus. What evidence would the school have had access to that would have supported the accuser's claims over Johnson/Williams?

 

[82_VOL_83]

Exactly(There is no rape culture at UT)!!!! Why? Would you not have to require multiple rapes to occur for a culture to be in place?!?!? One rape a culture does not make I would submit. Secondly these accusers have yet to prove in a court of criminal law, which are where rape charges are adjudicated, one rape by a football player. Lots of chin music, supposition, and unproven hurled accusations that some including some people on VN take at face value as true and then promote that. The falsely accused Duke lacrosse team appreciates some of your "open" minds ... Not!

A premise of a culture of charity to be in place requires charity to actually have occurred for it to be true. The premise of a rape culture to be true requires actual rapes to have occurred. Waiting,hopefully forever, for the first Vol football player to be convicted of rape.

Not what the suit alleges.

 

[drylo]

Thank you. :hi: My mistake. But we'll have to agree to disagree on what certain articles were implying with the way they told the timeline story.



UT (the school, not the football program) did handle Pearson's case more harshly. By not wanting to appear to show favoritism, they instead showed prejudice. They suspended him based on allegations alone. No evidence. Look where that got them. They were wrong. He could have sued the school (and won) for denying him an education. Maybe he should. That could help their case by showing they're in a no-win situation. Schools don't have the resources or expertise to handle cases of this seriousness.

With how they handled Johnson/Williams. There is nothing to suggest they handled it inappropriately. They allowed the young men to continue getting an education until they were indicted. Their alleged incident happened off-campus. What evidence would the school have had access to that would have supported the accuser's claims over Johnson/Williams?

Such a great post. This is the mic drop post.

 

[I40flyer]

I have to admit, I have not gotten much info on Pearson's case.

What I gathered from the linked article, sounds like there was some heated discussions over how the entire student body was being disciplined for minor infractions. Of corse if you are tough on Joe Schmoe student then you gotta be tough on an athlete, but if you take it easy on Joe then you can take it easy on an athlete too.

It was kind of sneaky to only count student on student crime when it comes to rape charges.

So did the Title IX lawsuit back down from the allegation of "creating a rape culture"?

I am not disagreeing with your post, but are you saying a student raped by a non-student, or a non-student raped by a student is not counted? Where is it counted, if at all? This is more than just sneaky, because in the bigger scheme of things, are these rapes being counted by any LE agency?

 

[AM64]

As I said, if Butch said that, he has a problem. If he didn't he doesn't.

The school still has lots and lots of problems.

This is putting things in a little different perspective, but the concept is very similar. If you are married and somebody accuses your spouse of something, your first action shouldn't be to agree but to discuss it with your spouse. Bowles first action should have been to help and protect someone in need - no question whatsoever on that point, and he apparently did that. However, as a member of the team, he should have reserved judgement and heard his teammates' account before taking sides - that is what being a part of something is all about - trust and support - it is just that simple. Regardless of how poorly or appropriately worded, that was what Jones told him. It doesn't have anything to do with protecting a guilty party - simply hearing the other side before jumping to conclusions. To be complicit by lying to help a teammate would be a far different matter, but you can listen to someone's account and still disagree - we do it here all the time. Far far better to base your opinion on substance than on supposition and appearance - or how something might be taken in an overly politically correct world; if our skins have grown so thin, then we have little hope for the future other than to wallow hopelessly in a morass of doubt and fear, afraid to take a stance on anything because it might be misinterpreted or misunderstood.

 

[vol66]

Von Pearson incident happened months before that, though. Is your name Randolph Smith, by chance?

April 24, 2015, Von Pearson Incident

June 18, 2015, Haslam hires Bill Ramsey

"They (the university) understood this lawsuit would be coming," Ramsey said.


One question I have is this...if they knew the lawsuit was coming did it influence the way they handled Von Pearson?

Another question I have is who is paying this lawyer, are we the taxpayers on the hook for this?

 

[vol_in_ar]

April 24, 2015, Von Pearson Incident

June 18, 2015, Haslam hires Bill Ramsey

"They (the university) understood this lawsuit would be coming," Ramsey said.


One question I have is this...if they knew the lawsuit was coming did it influence the way they handled Von Pearson?

Another question I have is who is paying this lawyer, are we the taxpayers on the hook for this?

the answer to your last question is probably yes

 

[vol66]

Thank you. :hi: My mistake. But we'll have to agree to disagree on what certain articles were implying with the way they told the timeline story.



UT (the school, not the football program) did handle Pearson's case more harshly.

Why?


You either have a policy that you follow or you don't.

How much interference can the attorney for the athlete place on that policy and those procedures?

How can 2 athletes CHARGED with aggravated rape be in school, on the sideline as a guest and at the same time suspend an athlete from school who has NOT been charged with anything at all.

What about Yemi? What about the young lady who worked for Tim Rodgers and the University leaking false information implying she'd had inappropriate relationships with players only to do their own investigation and find...

Report: No evidence supports accusations against ex-UT official

Let's not even get started on why the judge decided not to throw the Manning incident out.

 

[Iam4utalways]

I am not disagreeing with your post, but are you saying a student raped by a non-student, or a non-student raped by a student is not counted? Where is it counted, if at all? This is more than just sneaky, because in the bigger scheme of things, are these rapes being counted by any LE agency?

In the post I quoted there is an article. When asked how many cases there were in 2013 or 14, I think it was Hart that said 2, the news said 3 and Hart then said 3 if you count where the alleged victim is not a student.

 

[Iam4utalways]

Why?


You either have a policy that you follow or you don't.

How much interference can the attorney for the athlete place on that policy and those procedures?

How can 2 athletes CHARGED with aggravated rape be in school, on the sideline as a guest and at the same time suspend an athlete from school who has NOT been charged with anything at all.

What about Yemi? What about the young lady who worked for Tim Rodgers and the University leaking false information implying she'd had inappropriate relationships with players only to do their own investigation and find...

Report: No evidence supports accusations against ex-UT official

Let's not even get started on why the judge decided not to throw the Manning incident out.

The truth, even if all allegations are true on how poorly these incidents were handled, and all accused are guilty as charged, UT's purpose was not to create a rape culture but to win football games. Claim negligence , don't claim intent.

The good news, no rape culture at UT.

 

[Kristy*]

Why?

I answered your why. You deleted the rest of my post.

You either have a policy that you follow or you don't.

They seemingly followed their policy. They were criticized for not acting sternly enough. They modified their policy and subsequently acted too sternly. It almost backfired.

How much interference can the attorney for the athlete place on that policy and those procedures?

How can 2 athletes CHARGED with aggravated rape be in school, on the sideline as a guest and at the same time suspend an athlete from school who has NOT been charged with anything at all.

AJ shouldn't have been allowed on the field. That was a mistake. But he was still good friends with a lot of the players. That was on those players, not on the university, IMO. Also, AJ's accuser was not attending school by this point. So, no hostile environment. Pearson's was; but again, the school overreacted anyways.

What about Yemi? What about the young lady who worked for Tim Rodgers and the University leaking false information implying she'd had inappropriate relationships with players only to do their own investigation and find...

Report: No evidence supports accusations against ex-UT official

There's no evidence the school purposefully leaked anything. There were accusations against Wright. The school wanted to have a hearing with her to hear all sides of the story (or non-story). She instead chose to abruptly resign. Did she have something to hide? The answer is yes. Even if she didn't have relations with the student athletes (which still could have happened as the evidence just didn't prove it did happened rather than proving it didn't), she was in an inappropriate relationship with the director of football operations. She put herself in a bad situation. Then she chose not to defend herself.

Let's not even get started on why the judge decided not to throw the Manning incident out.

I agree with keeping Manning's incident in the case. Although, the accusations are clearly bogus, if they were to be true, then they could possibly show a pattern. However, Ms. Sues-a-lot has drastically exaggerated her story through the years.

 

[vol66]

I answered your why. You deleted the rest of my post.



They seemingly followed their policy. They were criticized for not acting sternly enough. They modified their policy and subsequently acted too sternly. It almost backfired.



AJ shouldn't have been allowed on the field. That was a mistake. But he was still good friends with a lot of the players. That was on those players, not on the university, IMO. Also, AJ's accuser was not attending school by this point. So, no hostile environment. Pearson's was; but again, the school overreacted anyways.



There's no evidence the school purposefully leaked anything. There were accusations against Wright. The school wanted to have a hearing with her to hear all sides of the story (or non-story). She instead chose to abruptly resign. Did she have something to hide? The answer is yes. Even if she didn't have relations with the student athletes (which still could have happened as the evidence just didn't prove it did happened rather than proving it didn't), she was in an inappropriate relationship with the director of football operations. She put herself in a bad situation. Then she chose not to defend herself.



I agree with keeping Manning's incident in the case. Although, the accusations are clearly bogus, if they were to be true, then they could possibly show a pattern. However, Ms. Sues-a-lot has drastically exaggerated her story through the years.

How did they modify their policy? Who criticized them?

Or are you saying that about the time of the Von Pearson incident (April 24, 2015) that the OCR received complaints on May 15th, and 18th and UT was notified on June 29 and July 1st that they would be investigating and that UT was added to their ever growing list of schools being investigated.

Are you saying that's why they "modified" their policy. There is no proof that they "seemingly followed their policy." In fact not only do the plaintiffs say it, former employees lost their jobs or resigned over their complaints on this issue.

AJ shouldn't have been allowed on the field. That was a mistake. But he was still good friends with a lot of the players. That was on those players, not on the university, IMO. Also, AJ's accuser was not attending school by this point. So, no hostile environment. Pearson's was; but again, the school overreacted anyways.

This last passage almost makes me want to throw up. The players have no say in who is or isn't on the sidelines and if UT had any PR skills at all, or a legal team worth a poop they never would have allowed it to happen.

The fact that she was no longer attending school and AJ is allowed on the field as if nothing ever happened is EXACTLY why the University finds it's self in this position.

As for the school leaking info, being naive is a choice. Fine by me.

As for Peyton, it has less to do with him and more about how Mike Rollo dealt with the incident. You can't tell an alleged victim who also happens to be a direct report how she should handle the incident and what it's going to be called...AKA a mooning. That's why the judge said it stays and it really is that simple.

 

[vol66]

UT's purpose was not to create a rape culture but to win football games.

I hope this is not a popular sentiment, maybe it is.

 

[volnpowell]

As I said, if Butch said that, he has a problem. If he didn't he doesn't.

The school still has lots and lots of problems.

Unless Butch is proved to have said that, I would have to say Title 9 has a lot of problems not Tn. Not saying Tn is perfect, because no school is, but certainly not a 'problem school'.

 

[Iam4utalways]

I hope this is not a popular sentiment, maybe it is.

Not at all. This was based of the assumption that all allegations were true, this was a dive into the motivation to why they want to keep the players out of trouble or at least on the field. Either to win games or to create a rape culture, why else would they conduct business the way they have.

But the allegation of creating a rape culture is complete nonsense. The answer is they are just trying to win games.

 

[vol66]

Unless Butch is proved to have said that, I would have to say Title 9 has a lot of problems not Tn. Not saying Tn is perfect, because no school is, but certainly not a 'problem school'.

I'll just say it like this. In the past couple of years UT (Athletic Dept.) has settled lawsuits with former employees to the tune of one million dollars.

We've been added to the list of schools being investigated by the Office of Civil Rights AND ...We're also now involved in a federal lawsuit.

It's cool, happens everywhere.

 

[vol66]

Not at all. This was based of the assumption that all allegations were true, this was a dive into the motivation to why they want to keep the players out of trouble or at least on the field. Either to win games or to create a rape culture, why else would they conduct business the way they have.

But the allegation of creating a rape culture is complete nonsense. The answer is they are just trying to win games.

I would like to know your definition of "rape culture". Serious question.

 

[Iam4utalways]

I would like to know your definition of "rape culture". Serious question.

A community based on rape culture would put a value on rape and rape would be a normal part of day to day life.

The culture of a rural community may put value on being outdoors thru hunting of fishing. While the culture of an urban community my put value on being outside thru golfing and bike riding.

It just seems that if a community is gonna be labeled, it would be fair for the label to have something to do with the community.

 

[volnpowell]

I'll just say it like this. In the past couple of years UT (Athletic Dept.) has settled lawsuits with former employees to the tune of one million dollars.

We've been added to the list of schools being investigated by the Office of Civil Rights AND ...We're also now involved in a federal lawsuit.

It's cool, happens everywhere.

Yeah, it is starting to happen everywhere, because people are seeing a loophole in title 9 where you can not satisfy all parties of it. That is why we are being "added to list of schools being investigated". Has Tn made mistakes or handle situations better, I am sure they could have, but to imply Tn 'is a problem' probably not true.