Syrian Kurds are close to declaring Independence

#502
#502
lawgator1 said:
Serious question: aside from the merits, are you bothered by the way it happened?
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I was initially taken aback over "dumping" an ally, even a conditional one, to allow another nation to go after them with overwhelming force. And truth be told, I'd likely pick the side of the Kurds anyway since I despise the Turks. So, yeah, I was bothered over the way it went down.

However, taking a step back and looking over it objectively, I tried to see what other options there were. There really aren't any good avenues we could have taken as a nation. We tried negotiating, that didn't work and the Turks were going to go in after they walked away. Of course, the news is reporting we gave the "green light" for Turkey to intercede, but that's not entirely accurate. Don't expect anything less from the Ministry of Truth these days anyway.

Regardless, we were faced with either continuing to support the Syrian Kurds and opposing Turkey, a NATO ally, and putting our forces in harm's way or stepping back. Neither choice was good. But I'll err on the side of keeping our troops safe for the moment and see how this unfolds.

Again, past failures to actually set up a legitimate and recognized Kurdish homeland with a democratically elected government are coming back to haunt us. And that's on Trump. And Obama. And Bush 43. And Bush 41. This problem transcends political parties and Presidencies. There's more to it overall, but I won't bore you with the complicated details since, in the words of one of your lawyer buddies, it's "simple."
 
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#504
#504
zeppelin128 said:
It is obvious. Somebody stroked Trump's ego, and he pulled troops. It was either Putin or Erdogan. And he is absolutely a coward. Trump abandoned an ally, and left them for dead. Not the first time he has done it, and it won't be the last. In the process he is destroying our reputation as a beacon of democracy and freedom, all in the desire for his own quest of proto-fascism.
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So, the alternative is to get into a shooting war with a NATO ally?

The rest of your post makes you look a blathering ignorant. Not that you need me to point that out.
 
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#506
#506
Well, Europe is about to support anything Turkey wants to do in Syria.

Turkey launches military offensive in Syria: Live updates - CNN

Turkey's President Recep Tayyip Erdogan issued a stern warning to Europeans on Thursday.

In a defiant address to lawmakers from his party just moments ago, the Turkish President said he would continue the operation in northern Syria, adding that if Europe criticizes his military moves, he would open the flood gates and allow 3.6 million Syrian refugees to travel onwards.
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#507
#507
Grand Vol said:
I was initially taken aback over "dumping" an ally, even a conditional one, to allow another nation to go after them with overwhelming force. And truth be told, I'd likely pick the side of the Kurds anyway since I despise the Turks. So, yeah, I was bothered over the way it went down.

However, taking a step back and looking over it objectively, I tried to see what other options there were. There really aren't any good avenues we could have taken as a nation. We tried negotiating, that didn't work and the Turks were going to go in after they walked away. Of course, the news is reporting we gave the "green light" for Turkey to intercede, but that's not entirely accurate. Don't expect anything less from the Ministry of Truth these days anyway.

Regardless, we were faced with either continuing to support the Syrian Kurds and opposing Turkey, a NATO ally, and putting our forces in harm's way or stepping back. Neither choice was good. But I'll err on the side of keeping our troops safe for the moment and see how this unfolds.

Again, past failures to actually set up a legitimate and recognized Kurdish homeland with a democratically elected government are coming back to haunt us. And that's on Trump. And Obama. And Bush 43. And Bush 41. This problem transcends political parties and Presidencies. There's more to it overall, but I won't bore you with the complicated details since, in the words of one of your lawyer buddies, it's "simple."
Click to expand...
Thanks for trying to explain your rationalization for supporting Trump at every turn. When in fact the only reason Turkey didn't attack before, is because we were there. Peacekeeping is not done from the rear.
 
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#508
#508
Grand Vol said:
I was initially taken aback over "dumping" an ally, even a conditional one, to allow another nation to go after them with overwhelming force. And truth be told, I'd likely pick the side of the Kurds anyway since I despise the Turks. So, yeah, I was bothered over the way it went down.

However, taking a step back and looking over it objectively, I tried to see what other options there were. There really aren't any good avenues we could have taken as a nation. We tried negotiating, that didn't work and the Turks were going to go in after they walked away. Of course, the news is reporting we gave the "green light" for Turkey to intercede, but that's not entirely accurate. Don't expect anything less from the Ministry of Truth these days anyway.

Regardless, we were faced with either continuing to support the Syrian Kurds and opposing Turkey, a NATO ally, and putting our forces in harm's way or stepping back. Neither choice was good. But I'll err on the side of keeping our troops safe for the moment and see how this unfolds.

Again, past failures to actually set up a legitimate and recognized Kurdish homeland with a democratically elected government are coming back to haunt us. And that's on Trump. And Obama. And Bush 43. And Bush 41. This problem transcends political parties and Presidencies. There's more to it overall, but I won't bore you with the complicated details since, in the words of one of your lawyer buddies, it's "simple."
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I'd like to know what Trump said to Erdogan about that. It seems highly unlikely to me that Erdogan persuaded Trump to yank our troops out so unceremoniously without also telling him that the Turks planned to go in. If that were the case, given the heat he is taking I am sure Trump would be saying he had no idea this was coming.

Did Erdogan misrepresent how heavy handed it would be? Possible. Did Trump just not appreciate what it meant? Also possible.
 
#510
#510
Mick said:
Thanks for trying to explain your rationalization for supporting Trump at every turn. When in fact the only reason Turkey didn't attack before, is because we were there. Peacekeeping is not done from the rear.
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You're welcome.

FTR, I would have supported the same move by Obama since, again, I never supported a Syrian incursion to begin with.
 
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#511
#511
This was a bad move by Trump. I don't really gaf what happens in the middle east, but US credibility is being destroyed. We abandoned an ally and justified it with a bunch of mealy mouthed bullsh!t.
 
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#512
#512
lawgator1 said:
I'd like to know what Trump said to Erdogan about that. It seems highly unlikely to me that Erdogan persuaded Trump to yank our troops out so unceremoniously without also telling him that the Turks planned to go in. If that were the case, given the heat he is taking I am sure Trump would be saying he had no idea this was coming.

Did Erdogan misrepresent how heavy handed it would be? Possible. Did Trump just not appreciate what it meant? Also possible.
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I asked the question last night if anyone thought our intelligence services were stupid enough to have missed 10,000 troops rallying on the border.
 
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#514
#514
Trump is doing what Libs have been wanting. Unfortunately it's Trump doing it and not Obummer so Libs are mad along with some Neocons.
 
#520
#520
Mick said:
What would you call it if our IC saw the 10k troops massing on the border and our troops head to the rear abandoning an ally?
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You mean the 50 advisors we had overseeing the Syrian army destroy Kurd camps on the border?
 
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