Tampa Muslim bombing plot thwarted

#76
#76
Here's my theory of how Christianity went from the blood thirsty days of the Crusades, to the somewhat peaceful state they are in today.

The Protestant Reformation. Until this time Christianity was overwhelmingly Catholic, which is to say Christianity was largely united under one ideal. That gave the church power, and boy did they use to murder thousands of minority Christians, heretics, and waged war on other religions (the moose-lims). That doesn't mean that all Christians at that time were blood thirsty war mongers, but the Kings and Popes at that time certainly were. IMO the greatest result of the Protestant Reformation, is it left Christianity so fragmented that no one ideal was large enough to run unchecked. At this point Christianity began to murder less and less in the name of religion.

This is what Islam needs. A fracturing of beliefs so that the different flavors of Islam aren't big enough to run largely unchecked when some crazy, power-hungry guy assumes control and sends 19 people to commit an act of terror. Just like the vast majority of Christian followers in the middle ages weren't crazy and hungry for war, the overwhelming majority Muslims today don't want to go to war and blow themselves up. Believe it or not, most people like living. Until the fracturing comes, I'm sure that some Muslims will continue to kill other Muslims, as well as people of other religions.
 
#78
#78
There is a fracture though it is regionally divided. Look at indonesia or the northwestern asian states.

Then again, there are still large concentrations of catholics that dont display violence. The difference, as trut stated, is socioeconomic.
 
#79
#79
volfanjustin said:
Good to see you an nb on the same page.

I am glad to see the Obama and Paul supporters on the same side on this issue.
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Stupid post is stupid.

Again, what's your solution to the problem... what's the Christlike thing to do about the spread of Islam in Western Civilization? I know it's a silly question to ask at this point, because this is the fourth time you've been asked to answer it, yet you've conveniently ignored it.

If you just want to answer "I'm a bigot with no solutions," then that works too. I mean, it's all I've seen up to this point.
 
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#81
#81
therealUT said:
Do all, or even the vast majority, Christians come out and hold press conferences, or publish press releases, to condemn each and every act of Christian terrorism? If so, I have yet to be inundated with such information and retorts.

On top of that, most media in Arab nations is state-controlled. Many of these states, not the populations, do tacitly endose violence against Western interests in an effort to increase their power. Once again, this is a socio-economic problem and those in power will use religion to exploit the poor, ignorant, ad desperate.

Have you ever stepped foot in an Arab country? A mosque? Had any conversations with Muslim clerics?
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VFJustin...bump.
 
#83
#83
1281.jpg

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#84
#84
milohimself said:
There is a fracture though it is regionally divided. Look at indonesia or the northwestern asian states.

There's 2 or 3 divisions in Islam as opposed to the Baskin-Robbins 31 flavors of Christianity. I agree that socioeconomic issues are part of the problem, but if each sect wasn't so big they'd have a harder time doing something crazy.

Then again, there are still large concentrations of catholics that dont display violence. The difference, as trut stated, is socioeconomic.

The IRA comes to mind.
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Just my thoughts.
 
#88
#88
lumberjack4 said:
Just my thoughts.
Click to expand...

The Reformation and the Counter-Reformation were arguably the bloodiest periods in European history prior to WWI. Post Reformation saw the rise of Colonialism and the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade. The United States, which was a panoply of all sorts of different types of Christianity continued to institute and endorse slavery and racial oppression long after Europe had moved forward.

The 'force' that has reigned in violent religious extremism in the Christian West has been the Enlightenment and the continued quest for reason, logic, and rationale thinking sans faith and revelation.

Many will quickly point out the Stalinist Russia and Maoist China killed millions and that they were atheistic nations; they were not. They were theists; however, their divine god was the state and everything was to be sacrificed for the state and for the good of the state. The sacrifices and the power asked for and exhibited by Stalinist Russia and Maoist China are easily more analogous to those asked for and exhibited throughout the history of religion than anything found within the texts of Secular Humanists; more 'Baalist' than 'Humean', 'Lockean', or 'Kantian'.

It is analogous to someone saying that they are no longer an addict because they went through some twelve step program; negative, they are still an addict but now religion is the addiction.
 
#89
#89
DinkinFlicka said:
Stupid post is stupid.

Again, what's your solution to the problem... what's the Christlike thing to do about the spread of Islam in Western Civilization? I know it's a silly question to ask at this point, because this is the fourth time you've been asked to answer it, yet you've conveniently ignored it.

If you just want to answer "I'm a bigot with no solutions," then that works too. I mean, it's all I've seen up to this point.
Click to expand...

I support taking the fight to them because these people only know and understand force, if we were to just stick our heads in the sand like you all do and say if we are nice to them they will like us. Keep laws like the Patriot Act on the books. Keep Gitmo open. We need to call them what they are and identify the enemy. The enemy is Islam, again not all but a portion of them are terrorists.

I know it's easy for you Paul and Obama supporters to just name call and accuse anyone who is not ok with innocent people being killed just because they are not of a certain religion, bigots and racist. I understand that is easier than accepting them for what they are. All I know is if Christians were committing these acts on the same scale Muslims are you all would be screaming from the mountain tops how these Christians need to be stopped.
 
#90
#90
- Truly, god loves those who fight

- Fight and slay the pagans wherever you find them,
and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for
them in every stratagem.

- Chop off their hands and chop off their fingertips

- When you meet the unbelievers, chop off their
heads

- Fight and slay those who don't convert wherever
you find them

- Believers, take neither Jew nor Christians for your
friends

- Those who follow Muhammad are ruthless to
unbelievers

- Those who reject Islam are "the vilest of creatures"
and thus deserve no mercy

- Fight them until Islam reigns supreme (throughout
the world)

There are more than 100 verses in the Qur'an (Koran) advocating the use of violence to spread Islam. There are exactly 123 verses in the Qur'an about killing and fighting.
The word "Islam" has been falsely proclaimed by Muslims to mean peace. The word Islam, actually means "submission" to the Muslim god of intolerance and hatred. It comes from the root Arabic word "taslim". In Arabic, the word for peace is only "solh".

Go Vols!! Kill the terrorists cowards! God Bless the United States !
 
#91
#91
volfanjustin said:
I support taking the fight to them because these people only know and understand force, if we were to just stick our heads in the sand like you all do and say if we are nice to them they will like us. Keep laws like the Patriot Act on the books. Keep Gitmo open. We need to call them what they are and identify the enemy. The enemy is Islam, again not all but a portion of them are terrorists.

I know it's easy for you Paul and Obama supporters to just name call and accuse anyone who is not ok with innocent people being killed just because they are not of a certain religion, bigots and racist. I understand that is easier than accepting them for what they are. All I know is if Christians were committing these acts on the same scale Muslims are you all would be screaming from the mountain tops how these Christians need to be stopped.
Click to expand...

I am assuming that you consider yourself a christian. I ask that you read this and think about what it says, especially the highlighted portions.

1 Peter 3
8 To sum up, all of you be harmonious, sympathetic, brotherly, kindhearted, and humble in spirit; 9 not returning evil for evil or insult for insult, but giving a blessing instead; for you were called for the very purpose that you might inherit a blessing. 10 For,

“THE ONE WHO DESIRES LIFE, TO LOVE AND SEE GOOD DAYS,
MUST KEEP HIS TONGUE FROM EVIL AND HIS LIPS FROM SPEAKING DECEIT.
11 “HE MUST TURN AWAY FROM EVIL AND DO GOOD;
HE MUST SEEK PEACE AND PURSUE IT.
12 “FOR THE EYES OF THE LORD ARE TOWARD THE RIGHTEOUS,
AND HIS EARS ATTEND TO THEIR PRAYER,
BUT THE FACE OF THE LORD IS AGAINST THOSE WHO DO EVIL.”

13 Who is there to harm you if you prove zealous for what is good? 14 But even if you should suffer for the sake of righteousness, you are blessed. AND DO NOT FEAR THEIR INTIMIDATION, AND DO NOT BE TROUBLED, 15 but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence; 16 and keep a good conscience so that in the thing in which you are slandered, those who revile your good behavior in Christ will be put to shame. 17 For it is better, if God should will it so, that you suffer for doing what is right rather than for doing what is wrong.
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James 3
17 But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, reasonable, full of mercy and good fruits, unwavering, without hypocrisy. 18 And the seed whose fruit is righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace.
Click to expand...
 
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#92
#92
volfanjustin said:
I support taking the fight to them because these people only know and understand force, if we were to just stick our heads in the sand like you all do and say if we are nice to them they will like us. Keep laws like the Patriot Act on the books. Keep Gitmo open. We need to call them what they are and identify the enemy. The enemy is Islam, again not all but a portion of them are terrorists.

I know it's easy for you Paul and Obama supporters to just name call and accuse anyone who is not ok with innocent people being killed just because they are not of a certain religion, bigots and racist. I understand that is easier than accepting them for what they are. All I know is if Christians were committing these acts on the same scale Muslims are you all would be screaming from the mountain tops how these Christians need to be stopped.
Click to expand...

Really? Who on these forums do not denounce the various acts of jihad? Find me just one.

Jakeanglin said:
- Truly, god loves those who fight

- Fight and slay the pagans wherever you find them,
and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for
them in every stratagem.

- Chop off their hands and chop off their fingertips

- When you meet the unbelievers, chop off their
heads

- Fight and slay those who don't convert wherever
you find them

- Believers, take neither Jew nor Christians for your
friends

- Those who follow Muhammad are ruthless to
unbelievers

- Those who reject Islam are "the vilest of creatures"
and thus deserve no mercy

- Fight them until Islam reigns supreme (throughout
the world)

There are more than 100 verses in the Qur'an (Koran) advocating the use of violence to spread Islam. There are exactly 123 verses in the Qur'an about killing and fighting.
The word "Islam" has been falsely proclaimed by Muslims to mean peace. The word Islam, actually means "submission" to the Muslim god of intolerance and hatred. It comes from the root Arabic word "taslim". In Arabic, the word for peace is only "solh".

Go Vols!! Kill the terrorists cowards! God Bless the United States !
Click to expand...

First, welcome to VN :hi:

Second, there is plenty of violence in the OT. As with any religious scripture, a reader can interpret them any number of ways. This is true for both the Qur'an and the OT.
 
#93
#93
LOL @ welcome. Can't you see another gsvol proxy handle when it's right in front if you ?
 
#94
#94
Jakeanglin said:
- Truly, god loves those who fight

- Fight and slay the pagans wherever you find them,
and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for
them in every stratagem.

- Chop off their hands and chop off their fingertips

- When you meet the unbelievers, chop off their
heads

- Fight and slay those who don't convert wherever
you find them

- Believers, take neither Jew nor Christians for your
friends

- Those who follow Muhammad are ruthless to
unbelievers

- Those who reject Islam are "the vilest of creatures"
and thus deserve no mercy

- Fight them until Islam reigns supreme (throughout
the world)

There are more than 100 verses in the Qur'an (Koran) advocating the use of violence to spread Islam. There are exactly 123 verses in the Qur'an about killing and fighting.
The word "Islam" has been falsely proclaimed by Muslims to mean peace. The word Islam, actually means "submission" to the Muslim god of intolerance and hatred. It comes from the root Arabic word "taslim". In Arabic, the word for peace is only "solh".

Go Vols!! Kill the terrorists cowards! God Bless the United States !
Click to expand...

Welcome and be prepared for the attacks that come with being critical of anything Islam.
 
#96
#96
volfanjustin said:
I support taking the fight to them because these people only know and understand force, if we were to just stick our heads in the sand like you all do and say if we are nice to them they will like us. Keep laws like the Patriot Act on the books. Keep Gitmo open. We need to call them what they are and identify the enemy. The enemy is Islam, again not all but a portion of them are terrorists.

I know it's easy for you Paul and Obama supporters to just name call and accuse anyone who is not ok with innocent people being killed just because they are not of a certain religion, bigots and racist. I understand that is easier than accepting them for what they are. All I know is if Christians were committing these acts on the same scale Muslims are you all would be screaming from the mountain tops how these Christians need to be stopped.
Click to expand...

So basically, you advocate a solution that conflicts with your Christian beliefs while keeping America as close to a police state as it's been since the McCarthy era?

"These people"? All Muslims? Fanatics? Countries with crude oil? You didn't specify, and it's kind of important, seeing how your answer can shape your own personal crusade, holocaust, or genocide.

And I wonder why it's difficult to have a serious discussion with you, MUR, gs, and his various alts.
 
#97
#97
RespectTradition said:
I am assuming that you consider yourself a christian. I ask that you read this and think about what it says, especially the highlighted portions.

1 Peter 3


James 3
Click to expand...

You forgot the very last paragraph of the Bible where believers are admonished to let the wicked be wicked.
 
#100
#100
DinkinFlicka said:
So basically, you advocate a solution that conflicts with your Christian beliefs while keeping America as close to a police state as it's been since the McCarthy era?

"These people"? All Muslims? Fanatics? Countries with crude oil? You didn't specify, and it's kind of important, seeing how your answer can shape your own personal crusade, holocaust, or genocide.

And I wonder why it's difficult to have a serious discussion with you, MUR, gs, and his various alts.
Click to expand...

My own personal holocaust or genocide? Haha, if you Paul and Obama supporters were half as critical of these terrorists as you all are of us who point out who they really are this country would be a safer place.

These people are not fanatics, again pay close attention this time. "Good Muslims" are those that kill non believers. Again, I know that is not easy to admit.

I think many of you have a secret man crush on gs because you all talk about him a lot.
 
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