Teaching Fired for a Tweet...

[Majors]

First grade, 5-6 year olds. She’s not teaching a high school age after school drama club putting on a play. This wasn’t a whoopsie mistake of song choice.

 

[CobbVol]

I have said her complaint is trite ... but a teacher does have First Amendment protection when they are being publicly critical of their administration over matters concerning the best interests of children ... because that is of public concern.

Which is not the case here.

 

[BowlBrother85]

Which is not the case here.

Based on the information currently available, I don't disagree with you.

 

[OrangeBoro]

View attachment 563356
First grade, 5-6 year olds. She’s not teaching a high school age after school drama club putting on a play. This wasn’t a whoopsie mistake of song choice.

This thing doesn’t need to be allowed within 500 feet of a school or park

 

[allvol123]

I have said her complaint is trite ... but a teacher does have First Amendment protection when they are being publicly critical of their administration over matters concerning the best interests of children ... because that is of public concern.

She wasn’t making comments that had anything to do with the best interests of her children. So it seems we agree, she has nothing to stand on here.

 

[clarksvol00]

Lots of legal scholarship in this thread. Is "best interest of the children" the legal standard or is that just a term that everybody decided sounded good to argue about?

 

[clarksvol00]

Twitter can absolutely ban you.
And your employer can fire you for refusal to jab.

And private business absolutely makes the rules. Or at least should.

My only concern here is that she was a government employee.

Just to clarify, my comment wasnt directed at you. I tend to think private employers should get a lot of leeway, but when the employer is the government I have some concerns about firing people for speech.

 

[UT-Rex]

I have said her complaint is trite ... but a teacher does have First Amendment protection when they are being publicly critical of their administration over matters concerning the best interests of children ... because that is of public concern.

Lots of legal scholarship in this thread. Is "best interest of the children" the legal standard or is that just a term that everybody decided sounded good to argue about?

a. to the contrary:
b. seems to be a concoction (a mixture of various ingredients or elements), from actual statements --

"I thought that the fact that the tweet that I made, that 'Rainbowland' wasn't going to be allowed was something that the public would be really concerned about and that they were interested in knowing about it," Tempel said.

"Rather than speak with Mark Schneider directly, Ms. Tempel took to a widespread media campaign challenging the district's motives, misrepresenting the facts of her lying motivations to further her own interests rather than those of her students," Katt said in her opening statement.

Waukesha teacher who criticized 'Rainbowland' ban has been fired (jsonline.com)

 

[BowlBrother85]

Lots of legal scholarship in this thread. Is "best interest of the children" the legal standard or is that just a term that everybody decided sounded good to argue about?

The legal standard is "of public concern," which is the language used in both the relevant Supreme Court precedents :

1) Pickering v. Board of Education

and

2) Garcetti v. Ceballos

I've posted information on both of these multiple times now ...

"Best interest of the school children" is just something I've used for teachers, because I think we can all agree that is "of public concern" in regard to the mission of education.

 

[UT-Rex]

The legal standard is "of public concern," which is the language used in both the relevant Supreme Court precedents :

1) Pickering v. Board of Education

and

2) Garcetti v. Ceballos

I've posted information on both of these multiple times now ...

"Best interest of the school children" is just something I've used for teachers, because I think we can all agree that is "of public concern" in regard to the mission of education.

To-date, the School Board disagrees (so, it's immaterial at the moment about "we" "all" agreeing to the wording you've "used", even if many of us disagree with your wording)


"Rather than speak with Mark Schneider directly, Ms. Tempel took to a widespread media campaign challenging the district's motives, misrepresenting the facts of her lying motivations to further her own interests rather than those of her students," Katt said in her opening statement.

Waukesha teacher who criticized 'Rainbowland' ban has been fired (jsonline.com)

 

[Majors]

This thing doesn’t need to be allowed within 500 feet of a school or park

Playing victim card. That picture was for a few years ago.

 

[BowlBrother85]

To-date, the School Board disagrees (so, it's immaterial at the moment about "we" "all" agreeing to the wording you've "used", even if many of us disagree with your wording)


"Rather than speak with Mark Schneider directly, Ms. Tempel took to a widespread media campaign challenging the district's motives, misrepresenting the facts of her lying motivations to further her own interests rather than those of her students," Katt said in her opening statement.

Waukesha teacher who criticized 'Rainbowland' ban has been fired (jsonline.com)

I wasn't talking about this case, Genius. I was talking about the bar to meet for "of public concern," in regards to an educator.

 

[UT-Rex]

"Best interest of the school children" is just something I've used for teachers, because I think we can all agree that is "of public concern" in regard to the mission of education.

I wasn't talking about this case, Genius. I was talking about the bar to meet for "of public concern," in regards to an educator.

Well, I've pointed out that your wording is strikingly different than the School Board's wording.

word comparison: "Best interest of the school children" (your wording, based on other, actual cases) vs "to further her own interests rather than those of her students" (SB wording)


"Rather than speak with Mark Schneider directly, Ms. Tempel took to a widespread media campaign challenging the district's motives, misrepresenting the facts of her lying motivations to further her own interests rather than those of her students," Katt said in her opening statement.

 

[BowlBrother85]

Well, I've pointed out that your wording is strikingly different than the School Board's wording.

word comparison: "Best interest of the school children" (your wording, based on other, actual cases) vs "to further her own interests rather than those of her students" (SB wording)


"Rather than speak with Mark Schneider directly, Ms. Tempel took to a widespread media campaign challenging the district's motives, misrepresenting the facts of her lying motivations to further her own interests rather than those of her students," Katt said in her opening statement.

The wording that matters, is that of the two Supreme Court rulings which I have referenced.

Pickering v. Board of Education
Garcetti v. Ceballos

 

[UT-Rex]

Lots of legal scholarship in this thread. Is "best interest of the children" the legal standard or is that just a term that everybody decided sounded good to argue about?

I wasn't talking about this case, Genius. I was talking about the bar to meet for "of public concern," in regards to an educator.

the other poster was questioning the source of your wording "best interest of the children" ;

but, obviously, the teacher's atty has resorted to the wording "a matter of public concern"

"Specifically, the evidence is going to support our position that the tweets, the interviews and public commentary on the issues in this case represent Ms. Tempel's protected, off-duty speech as a public citizen on a matter of public concern," Murshid said.

Waukesha teacher who criticized 'Rainbowland' ban has been fired (jsonline.com)

 

[UT-Rex]

-

 

[WBO]

Not sure how a government entity terminates employment for social posts, even ones critical of the school board UNLESS they have a published policy covering that and the tweets violated the policy.

 

[UT-Rex]

The wording that matters, is that of the two Supreme Court rulings which I have referenced.

Pickering v. Board of Education

“The problem in any case is to arrive at a balance between the interests of the teacher, as a citizen, in commenting upon matters of public concern and the interest of the State, as an employer, in promoting the efficiency of the public services it performs through its employers.”

"Marshall concluded Pickering’s First Amendment rights had been violated because the school board had not produced evidence that Pickering had knowingly or recklessly made false statements in his letter."


"Rather than speak with Mark Schneider directly, Ms. Tempel took to a widespread media campaign challenging the district's motives, misrepresenting the facts of her lying motivations to further her own interests rather than those of her students," Katt said in her opening statement.

 

[creekdipper]

Just to clarify, my comment wasnt directed at you. I tend to think private employers should get a lot of leeway, but when the employer is the government I have some concerns about firing people for speech.

Policeman got fired for social media pic in which he was wearing shorts depicting Confederate flag.

 

[85SugarVol]

Just to clarify, my comment wasnt directed at you. I tend to think private employers should get a lot of leeway, but when the employer is the government I have some concerns about firing people for speech.

I know it wasn’t.

I have concerns too when the State is involved.

 

[UT-Rex]

The legal standard is "of public concern," which is the language used in both the relevant Supreme Court precedents :

1) Pickering v. Board of Education

and

2) Garcetti v. Ceballos

I've posted information on both of these multiple times now ...

"Best interest of the school children" is just something I've used for teachers, because I think we can all agree that is "of public concern" in regard to the mission of education.

Waukesha teacher who criticized 'Rainbowland' ban has been fired (jsonline.com)
""If the students are Googling or researching one of the artists, some inappropriate images or videos could appear. I just felt there were better options for a first-grade concert," Schneider said, referring to Cyrus."

"Schneider said staff members shared Tempel's post with him the day after she posted, and he also saw it in a Facebook group. He said he was "taken aback" by Tempel's tweet and said Tempel never reached out to him about her concerns.

Sebert said during his testimony that Tempel failed to follow district policy of consulting with her supervisor and then going up the chain of command by instead posting her concerns to social media."

Precedence, for SB's decision (to recommend another song):


Miley Cyrus' VMA performance blasted by Parents Television Council - CBS News

 

[UT-Rex]

The wording that matters, is that of the two Supreme Court rulings which I have referenced.

Pickering v. Board of Education
Garcetti v. Ceballos

the argument can be made: By looking after the best interest of the students, then the School Board was looking after the best interest of the public ; SB recommended and permitted another song (the concert was not stopped / the teacher still had the right to perform her duties with her students) ;

seems the argument is being made: policy was not followed


Waukesha teacher who criticized 'Rainbowland' ban has been fired (jsonline.com)
""If the students are Googling or researching one of the artists, some inappropriate images or videos could appear. I just felt there were better options for a first-grade concert," Schneider said, referring to Cyrus."

Sebert said during his testimony that Tempel failed to follow district policy of consulting with her supervisor and then going up the chain of command by instead posting her concerns to social media."

 

[85SugarVol]

Can a State funded school compel speech from a government employee?

 

[n_huffhines]

Policeman got fired for social media pic in which he was wearing shorts depicting Confederate flag.

If you say "I am racist" you aren't getting fired for exercising your right to speech. You are getting fired for being racist from a job that cannot tolerate that. I'm not saying that confederate flag attire certainly means you are racist, but these days that's how it is interpreted by almost everybody.

 

[creekdipper]

These days, wearing a Dukes of Hazzard tee-shirt is considered racist.