Ten Thoughts (Middle of camp edition)

#26
#26
utvolkyle06 said:
Modest success sets the bar too low for me, and is too ambiguous. We at least need to get to some kind of bowl game, all these coaches, athletic directors etc. make the big bucks so regardless of the circumstances if you cannot have a 50% win record (especially with four much lesser opponents on the schedule) and a bowl game you are a failure. Plain and simple.
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A 50% win record... is setting the bar too low for the talent on this roster. IMO, 7-9 wins should be Jones' range. He's gotten buy in. He's done nothing but praise the attitude and work ethic of the team. He inherits probably the best OL in the SEC if not the country from tackle to tackle. His front 7 on D has talent and experience.

I have stated it before but IMO a 6 win season will be a strong indication that Jones cannot get it done in K'ville. Moreover, I think it will make it very difficult for him to get a chance even if he can. This is a talented and senior laden team. Half of the starters will be Srs. About 9 or 10 are multi-year starters. Next year he loses those experienced and talented starters. He loses a total of 16 SRs from his two deep plus maybe 2 JRs. Those players will be replaced primarily by SOs or '14 signees.

If this is a six win team then next year's team is a 4 or 5 win team at best. If he has one season at .500 followed by a losing season then '15 will be a make or break year.
 
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#27
#27
Lets see what they do on the field. Having a nice camp is great and all but its against your teammates
 
#29
#29
WoodsmanVol said:
On McCullers, I disagree with your take on him. He has the raw talent and ability. The issue is he has a teddy bear personality. I had a ham handed pal like this. Huge guy, hands the size of hams. The nicest guy you'd ever meet. Soft spoken if he said anything at all. Very polite, willing to help anyone, and just a big teddy bear. Never really saw him mad except once and even then he just left instead of fighting. You knew if he made a fist with those hams and hit you, you wouldn't need a doctor, rather a priest to read your last rites. But he just wasn't a fighter. Now, by all accounts, Dan doesn't have what coaches call a mean streak but has been asked him for it. Clowney has it and switches it on during games and off afterwards. The thing with Dan, is that I think he's the kind of human being we should all be, slow to anger and just a plain all around decent. But on the field we a "Hulk smash" guy. Hopefully, he doesn't get changed into a Ray Lewis.
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This is some interesting commentary. I never played football, so I don't fully understand the expectations and aggresiveness that is involved. However, it is interesting that we ask these guys to act physical and tough only while they are on the field. I know it is just a game, and most people can turn it on and off. But, it is no wonder why some of these guys get into physical altercations off the field because it is just driven into their heads.

It is kind of the same way with the military. 95% of them know how to act in battle as opposed to on the streets in our country. However, they are drilled over and over again how to protect and kill, and then asked to be perfect citizens "away" from their job. Sometimes, unfortunately, a few can't differentiate this.

These are just dichotomies that can make it tough for people, and we all know life presents challenges even without these things. Interesting to me.
 
#30
#30
Yankee_Vol said:
Lets see what they do on the field. Having a nice camp is great and all but its against your teammates
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For better or worse, you are absolutely right. All the stuff going on could mean both units are bad, both are good, or one other the other is bad while the other is good.

Last fall the D played better against UT's great O than they eventually proved to be. There were some indications that things were "managed" to make the D more successful than they would have been had the O been unleashed though. It was almost as if the D got a heads up on what was coming. "We're going to focus on this in this session".

The communication styles are so different between Jones and Dooley that they could be doing the same this year... but I have not detected it through the reports. I am sure they are managing what is throw at each unit but letting the team "expect" what plays are coming would seem pretty contrary to Jones' style and philosophy.
 
#31
#31
One thing that would be helpful is if the sudden change practice mentality has been something he has used in the past. If he did, it would be interesting to know at what stage he used it- with young teams or mature? Teams that he did not expect to be good or teams the did?

It seems to be an advanced form of challenging a team if there were many basic, foundational things that weren't solid.
 
#32
#32
sjt18 said:
A 50% win record... is setting the bar too low for the talent on this roster. IMO, 7-9 wins should be Jones' range. He's gotten buy in. He's done nothing but praise the attitude and work ethic of the team. He inherits probably the best OL in the SEC if not the country from tackle to tackle. His front 7 on D has talent and experience.

I have stated it before but IMO a 6 win season will be a strong indication that Jones cannot get it done in K'ville. Moreover, I think it will make it very difficult for him to get a chance even if he can. This is a talented and senior laden team. Half of the starters will be Srs. About 9 or 10 are multi-year starters. Next year he loses those experienced and talented starters. He loses a total of 16 SRs from his two deep plus maybe 2 JRs. Those players will be replaced primarily by SOs or '14 signees.

If this is a six win team then next year's team is a 4 or 5 win team at best. If he has one season at .500 followed by a losing season then '15 will be a make or break year.
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Sorry, but this is totally the wrong attitude to take into this season. No wonder it is tough for a high level college coach.

Yes, we have quite a few seniors, but we also have little to no experience at some key positions- QB, WR, and CB. The senior experience is all heavy in the lines. If we had a young guy or two mixed in the lines to go along with an experienced QB, WR, or CB, then it would be much better. If the seniors were spread out among the positions, then I could see your argument. But, they aren't.

I just looked at CBS' rankings of all D1 schools, and we play 5 of the top 10. If you are expecting 7-9 wins, then I am afraid you may be disappointed.

At this point in our history (especially after a coach like Dooley), I am looking for effort and execution. If we lose to Oregon in a good contest with effort and execution, then I will be happy. Now, I am not saying that we can't win 7-8 with some breaks, but I will be satisfied with 6-6 and happy with 7-5. JMO.
 
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#34
#34
sjt18 said:
A 50% win record... is setting the bar too low for the talent on this roster. IMO, 7-9 wins should be Jones' range. He's gotten buy in. He's done nothing but praise the attitude and work ethic of the team. He inherits probably the best OL in the SEC if not the country from tackle to tackle. His front 7 on D has talent and experience.

I have stated it before but IMO a 6 win season will be a strong indication that Jones cannot get it done in K'ville. Moreover, I think it will make it very difficult for him to get a chance even if he can. This is a talented and senior laden team. Half of the starters will be Srs. About 9 or 10 are multi-year starters. Next year he loses those experienced and talented starters. He loses a total of 16 SRs from his two deep plus maybe 2 JRs. Those players will be replaced primarily by SOs or '14 signees.

If this is a six win team then next year's team is a 4 or 5 win team at best. If he has one season at .500 followed by a losing season then '15 will be a make or break year.
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I think judging a coach after year one is always a bad idea. I also think you are underestimating that the D is not SEC quality right now and it's so hard to compete with a set up like that. I predict seven wins and no bowl game is a bad season but saying that six regular season wins will basically show that Jones is not the guy is unrealistic.
 
#35
#35
VolGee4 said:
Sorry, but this is totally the wrong attitude to take into this season. No wonder it is tough for a high level college coach.

Yes, we have quite a few seniors, but we also have little to no experience at some key positions- QB, WR, and CB. The senior experience is all heavy in the lines. If we had a young guy or two mixed in the lines to go along with an experienced QB, WR, or CB, then it would be much better. If the seniors were spread out among the positions, then I could see your argument. But, they aren't.

I just looked at CBS' rankings of all D1 schools, and we play 5 of the top 10. If you are expecting 7-9 wins, then I am afraid you may be disappointed.

At this point in our history (especially after a coach like Dooley), I am looking for effort and execution. If we lose to Oregon in a good contest with effort and execution, then I will be happy. Now, I am not saying that we can't win 7-8 with some breaks, but I will be satisfied with 6-6 and happy with 7-5. JMO.
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Agree completely with you Gee.
 
#36
#36
BACKDOC said:
J. Smith has been average for three yrs. Why do think this yr. will be any different? Hope I'm wrong; a pass rush is a DB's best friend.
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Didn't say he will be. He needs to be for UT to have a good year on D.
 
#39
#39
zjcvols said:
Most definitely but it is so much fun to speculate.
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That's why we have boards like VN :)

I love hearing about things going on in practice and such, you just gotta temper the expectations(sometimes) coming from it.
 
#40
#40
Yankee_Vol said:
That's why we have boards like VN :)

I love hearing about things going on in practice and such, you just gotta temper the expectations(sometimes) coming from it.
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I didn't think it was too optimistic but it might have been :)
 
#43
#43
zjcvols said:
I think judging a coach after year one is always a bad idea. I also think you are underestimating that the D is not SEC quality right now and it's so hard to compete with a set up like that. I predict seven wins and no bowl game is a bad season but saying that six regular season wins will basically show that Jones is not the guy is unrealistic.
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Gotta disagree here.

I think we all judged coach Sal last year pretty acurately after only one year. Position coaches and sometimes coord's ,in extreme cases, can be assessed in a year.

As far as head coaches...I see em more as a CEO type position now. They need to show that the program is heading in the right direction and they can correct any deficiencies they have...staff, player, image.

IMO a 6-6 record will show that he has some work to do.
 
#44
#44
gnm53108 said:
Gotta disagree here.

I think we all judged coach Sal last year pretty acurately after only one year. Position coaches and sometimes coord's ,in extreme cases, can be assessed in a year.

As far as head coaches...I see em more as a CEO type position now. They need to show that the program is heading in the right direction and they can correct any deficiencies they have...staff, player, image.

IMO a 6-6 record will show that he has some work to do.
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Sal had to be judged on one year because Dooley put him in that situation. Plus, if he didn't have the worst defense in UT history, then maybe he gets more time with Dooley.

But, it is pretty clear that CBJ has the program going in the right direction based on 8 months of work. You have to consider the totality of the circumstances and not just what happens this year on the field. This team has deficiencies for various reasons. Remember that CBJ won 4 games his first year at Cincy and then got it rolling.
 
#45
#45
sjt18 said:
One thing that would be helpful is if the sudden change practice mentality has been something he has used in the past. If he did, it would be interesting to know at what stage he used it- with young teams or mature? Teams that he did not expect to be good or teams the did?

It seems to be an advanced form of challenging a team if there were many basic, foundational things that weren't solid.
Click to expand...

This would be interesting to find out. Surely, CBJ isn't implementing sudden change at the expense of fundamentals, but you never know.

I'm cautiously optimistic, as I imagine most Vols fans are. Absent major injuries, there's no excuse for missing a bowl game this year.
 
#46
#46
VolGee4 said:
Sal had to be judged on one year because Dooley put him in that situation. Plus, if he didn't have the worst defense in UT history, then maybe he gets more time with Dooley.

But, it is pretty clear that CBJ has the program going in the right direction based on 8 months of work. You have to consider the totality of the circumstances and not just what happens this year on the field. This team has deficiencies for various reasons. Remember that CBJ won 4 games his first year at Cincy and then got it rolling.
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I agree. It looks like coach Jones has us heading in the right direction....rapidly.

Whatever happens this year he's already proven that he's taking care of the player equation. IMO a sucessfull HC has to prove he'll make the tough decisions involving his staff...if need be. See coach Fulmer 02-08. Side note...coach Majors went alittle overboard here. Many advantages to keeping a sucessfull staff together.

IMO less than 7 wins this year and he'll have some decisions to make.
 
#48
#48
sjt18 said:
Worley's arm is stronger than the OP seems to think. He isn't going to do it like Bray but can throw deep. My bigger concern watching him in practice video is that he drops the ball before delivering. He almost winds up a little. He is accurate. I think he will be successful but Simms' downfall was a slow delivery. If that hitch inhibits Worely then it could open the door for Peterman. OTOH, the D Wuerfful had the most messed up and slow looking delivery I have ever seen... and a weak arm. He did fine.

With Peterman, I wonder about his "fine" accuracy and decision making. Everything else seems to be there. He has good athleticism and arm strength. All four QB's seem to be more solid between the ears right now than Bray ever was or is likely to become.

For all the nice words, I struggle to believe that either of the freshmen can
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Worley appears to have a quicker release in every video I've seen of the two.
 
#49
#49
Smokefatty said:
Worley appears to have a quicker release in every video I've seen of the two.
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i hope his release is better than i remember... the drop down to the waist then throw drives me crazy and is hard to get away with unless you have an absolute cannon
 
#50
#50
Friend of mine is an SEC official. Lives in Nashville. He officiated one of our scrimmages the other day. He said the defense looked good, the O-line was huge, but our QBs and WRs were awful. Just a take from an sec official.
 
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