Ten Thoughts (Middle of camp edition)

[sjt18]

Sorry, but this is totally the wrong attitude to take into this season. No wonder it is tough for a high level college coach.

Yes, we have quite a few seniors, but we also have little to no experience at some key positions- QB, WR, and CB. The senior experience is all heavy in the lines. If we had a young guy or two mixed in the lines to go along with an experienced QB, WR, or CB, then it would be much better. If the seniors were spread out among the positions, then I could see your argument. But, they aren't.

I just looked at CBS' rankings of all D1 schools, and we play 5 of the top 10. If you are expecting 7-9 wins, then I am afraid you may be disappointed.

At this point in our history (especially after a coach like Dooley), I am looking for effort and execution. If we lose to Oregon in a good contest with effort and execution, then I will be happy. Now, I am not saying that we can't win 7-8 with some breaks, but I will be satisfied with 6-6 and happy with 7-5. JMO.

This attitude you just expressed... a pre-excusal of underperformance... is how programs become and remain mediocre also rans. If you want to claim that UT does not have talent at QB and WR then we can just agree to disagree and move on. If you want to claim that the CB situation is not manageable then I am willing to let you be wrong after pointing you to Vandy who had less talent there last year but finished 3rd in the SEC in pass D last fall.

And you are failing to deal with reality. If this is a six win team because Jones will be required to use new or inexperienced players at one CB and two WR positions... then what is "acceptable" next fall when the whole OL will be new along with the whole DL, one of the top two RB's, a key S, ALL LB's, kicker.... ?

So let's play along with your six win is OK attitude. He wins six this year then 4 or 5 next year. That's a Dooley re-run. Dooley won six his first year, five his second year, then folded under the pressure of a do or die third year. You are absolutely delusional if you think the pitchforks won't be out if Jones hits year three without a winning season. The reasons didn't matter when it was Dooley... and they'll matter less for Jones. Jones inherited a MUCH BETTER ROSTER AND SITUATION.

 

[sjt18]

Worley appears to have a quicker release in every video I've seen of the two.

We are seeing something different then. Worley drops the ball before throwing. Peterman doesn't. It may look quicker... but you can't make that circle and be quicker than someone who goes directly into the release. BTW, I like Worley and he sounds like the best option right now. I am concerned about his little wind up though. That was a huge problem for Simms.

 

[sjt18]

I think judging a coach after year one is always a bad idea. I also think you are underestimating that the D is not SEC quality right now and it's so hard to compete with a set up like that. I predict seven wins and no bowl game is a bad season but saying that six regular season wins will basically show that Jones is not the guy is unrealistic.

I just don't think so... and will point to Dooley '10 as proof. He won six and should have won 8. He didn't play Oregon but did play LSU and Petrino. He had a TERRIBLE OL both in terms of talent and experience. He had only Poole at RB who was even close to SEC quality. He did not inherit an SEC quality DT. There was little talent or depth in the front 7 or the secondary. IIRC, about 17 of the new Fr players played significant time and roles for the team. The ONLY place where that team was definitely better than this one in terms of talent, depth, and experience is WR.... except they weren't deep then either.

If Dooley can win six with that team and be two flukes away from beating LSU and UNC... then it is not unrealistic AT ALL to expect Jones to do better IF he is better.

 

[sjt18]

Sal had to be judged on one year because Dooley put him in that situation.

Only because the Peter Principle applies fully in his case.

It worked out for the best because DD demonstrated through SS's failures that he was not the right guy... but the switch to Sunseri and the 3-4 no doubt cost Dooley his job. With Wilcox there is absolutely no way they avg allowing 2 more TD's per game with the same or better personnel. A performance from the D just equal to '11 makes the '12 a 9 or 10 win team. Dooley would still be HC.

Plus, if he didn't have the worst defense in UT history, then maybe he gets more time with Dooley.

Sunseri may be a great position coach. He is not a competent coordinator. Dooley may be a good program administrator. He is not a competent HC.

But, it is pretty clear that CBJ has the program going in the right direction based on 8 months of work.

No. It really isn't. I like his style. I like his recruiting thus far. He's winning me over with the way he coaches. But he's proven nothing until he takes the talent he has and wins football games with it. He needs to win 7+ to prove he's done anything substantial to move the program in the right direction.

There is no other worthwhile measure at the end of the day. Either he wins games or he doesn't.

You have to consider the totality of the circumstances and not just what happens this year on the field.

I am. I'm not asking for an SEC championship. I'm not asking for 10 wins or even 9.... or even 8. I am asking him to beat the six teams whose rosters are not as good as his plus 1 of at least four and possibly five others that are in reasonable range of an "upset".

This team has deficiencies for various reasons.

And Dooley faced worse deficiencies in every position group except maybe WR... and won six games.

Remember that CBJ won 4 games his first year at Cincy and then got it rolling.

By his own confession, that team did not buy into his program nor was it very talented compared to the competition. If he was having to deal with a ton of team and player issues then this would matter. He's not. No one has said anything less than this team has good attitudes and works its tail off.

 

[led0321]

I just don't think so... and will point to Dooley '10 as proof. He won six and should have won 8. He didn't play Oregon but did play LSU and Petrino. He had a TERRIBLE OL both in terms of talent and experience. He had only Poole at RB who was even close to SEC quality. He did not inherit an SEC quality DT. There was little talent or depth in the front 7 or the secondary. IIRC, about 17 of the new Fr players played significant time and roles for the team. The ONLY place where that team was definitely better than this one in terms of talent, depth, and experience is WR.... except they weren't deep then either.

If Dooley can win six with that team and be two flukes away from beating LSU and UNC... then it is not unrealistic AT ALL to expect Jones to do better IF he is better.

Oregon, Florida, Ga, SC and Bama.

It will be hard to beat any of those but I think he will beat and has the talent to beat one or two of them.

Fla and SC would be my bets

 

[sjt18]

OHHHHHHH, I forgot to mention a very key thing above. Dooley inherited no QB's... as in ZERO. Simms came in as a JUCO and Bray was an EE. Neither had even a single practice snap at the D-1 level. Compare that to the current group. Jones has 4 with SEC caliber physical talent. Worley has started games in the SEC. Both he and Peterman have been in the program now for at least two years.

And I repeat.... DOOLEY... yes the guy everyone here LOVES to hate... won six games with that team and should have beaten LSU and UNC. That's 7 wins plus a bowl... the result I am saying is "reasonable" for Jones.

 

[sjt18]

Oregon, Florida, Ga, SC and Bama.

It will be hard to beat any of those but I think he will beat and has the talent to beat one or two of them.

Fla and SC would be my bets

Replace Bama with Auburn. I would say in order of probability of an "upset": Aub, USCe, UGA/Ore, UF.

Bama would be a near miracle.

 

[VOLywood]

I would avoid Byron Moore after saying he has decent man skills.

 

[GrowVol]

Thanx Op! Upsets will be our theme this season.GBO

 

[theutvolunteers]

I just don't think so... and will point to Dooley '10 as proof. He won six and should have won 8. He didn't play Oregon but did play LSU and Petrino. He had a TERRIBLE OL both in terms of talent and experience. He had only Poole at RB who was even close to SEC quality. He did not inherit an SEC quality DT. There was little talent or depth in the front 7 or the secondary. IIRC, about 17 of the new Fr players played significant time and roles for the team. The ONLY place where that team was definitely better than this one in terms of talent, depth, and experience is WR.... except they weren't deep then either.

If Dooley can win six with that team and be two flukes away from beating LSU and UNC... then it is not unrealistic AT ALL to expect Jones to do better IF he is better.

Dang good points/argument.

 

[DC Vol]

What you guys are forgetting is all of these Seniors that are on UT's roster have seen:

(6-7 if they're a RS SR), 6-7, 5-7, 5-7.

Jones is inheriting a team that is 0-5 against Bama. 0-5 against Florida. 1-4 against Georgia and 1-4 against South Carolina. Most have only seen UT win 5 SEC games in 3 years. Let that sink in.

I'm not calling these guys losers. They aren't. They're college aged-kids with a lot on their plates. However, they're in a huge rut. That's a lot for Jones to overcome in such a short period of time. There is a lot of talent on this team, I think. And finally, out of all of the previous 5 years of misery, UT finally has depth across almost all positions except maybe CB.

Regardless, can these guys compete? Yes, I think so.

Do these guys believe they can compete against the best? We'll see.

It starts with leadership both in the team and on the staff. We lacked both last year... it doesn't look (I do recognize the season hasn't started but Fall Camp is all we have to work with) like we do this year.

 

[sjt18]

That's a pretty good post DC Vol. It all boils down to Jones' ability to coach and motivate a football team. Others have said this year isn't really a test of his ability. I disagree. I think more than next two years, this year will be a direct test of his ability as a HC.