Tenn-Kent

#26
#26
johnnybravo said:
Vandy had the second highest RPI in the league under 20. Might not have had a significant jump since it was at the end of the year and at home, but you replace that win with a win against Auburn who had an RPI around 150, then you will see a difference. We don't get in the national bubble talk unless we get the win over a very good Vandy team. Beating Auburn wouldn't have had no where near the same impact.

Again, in college basketball you get screwed by playing the weaker teams. It doesn't matter if they are out of conference or not. That's why Pearl fought so hard to get the SEC tourney realigned to seat the teams by total wins instead of top two in each division. We were actually getting screwed in our RPI ranking and potential NCAA seating by having to play a crappy SEC team with a terrible RPI on the first day.
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That's just not true. Pearl fought because he had one of the best 4 records in the league but didn't get a bye. Playing a bottom feeder in the SEC tourny and beating them doesn NOT hurt your RPI.
 
#27
#27
bleedingTNorange said:
Not a bad idea, but then again why should you be punished for being the best the previous year. Say we are the best but are senior laden and return very few, now we have a tough path anyways because of youth, plus the toughest schedule. I think going just completely random every year and alternating those every 2 years is the fairest.
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Either way everyone not playing the same schedule is going to end up with it not being fair to someone. I just like a system that allows for the lower tier teams to have some opportunity to rebuild without randomly drawing UK, UF, Mizzou and Bama as their 4 extra games. Yes, there are going to be years when a team graduates a lot of talent and gets hammered the next year by doing it my way, but the same could happen by doing it randomly.
 
#28
#28
johnnybravo said:
Vandy had the second highest RPI in the league under 20. Might not have had a significant jump since it was at the end of the year and at home, but you replace that win with a win against Auburn who had an RPI around 150, then you will see a difference. We don't get in the national bubble talk unless we get the win over a very good Vandy team. Beating Auburn wouldn't have had no where near the same impact.

Again, in college basketball you get screwed by playing the weaker teams. It doesn't matter if they are out of conference or not. That's why Pearl fought so hard to get the SEC tourney realigned to seat the teams by total wins instead of top two in each division. We were actually getting screwed in our RPI ranking and potential NCAA seating by having to play a crappy SEC team with a terrible RPI on the first day.
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Agree with all that I was simply referencing the point about Vanderbilt being a rpi helper when we beat them.
 
#29
#29
zansdad said:
Either way everyone not playing the same schedule is going to end up with it not being fair to someone. I just like a system that allows for the lower tier teams to have some opportunity to rebuild without randomly drawing UK, UF, Mizzou and Bama as their 4 extra games. Yes, there are going to be years when a team graduates a lot of talent and gets hammered the next year by doing it my way, but the same could happen by doing it randomly.
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That makes sense and im liking this idea more. As you said, well run into the problem of say 2 years from now we feel we have a good team, then draw the top 3 other teams in the SEC. Now everyone's complaining saying its rigged and blah blah blah. A set system so you know what you have is a good idea, I like it.

My hope is a rivalry with vandy and a set system like you mentioned.
 
#30
#30
zansdad said:
That's just not true. Pearl fought because he had one of the best 4 records in the league but didn't get a bye. Playing a bottom feeder in the SEC tourny and beating them doesn NOT hurt your RPI.
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Obviously, you really do not understand the rpi formula for NCAA basketball. Google can really be your friend.

75% of the rating comes not from anything the particular team in question actually accomplished on the floor, but how its opponents fared. Understanding that point is an important step in obtaining a clear understanding the RPI.

The 3 major rules to beat the rpi system is:

1) Play teams who have really good records, even if they're going to thrash you.
2) Duck teams who have really bad records, especially the weaker teams from the big conferences.
3) Stay at home

If a nationally ranked top-10 team playing a team from a low level conference (which happens to be a conference leader, and therefore has a very respectable record). The top-10 teams beats them by 25 and their RPI is improved (even though the RPI doesn't care how much they won by). However, if the same top-10 team played a team in the same low-level conference but with a poor record and beat them by 35, their RPI might plummet. This happened not because the margin they beat their opponents by was not enough, or really even whether they won or not (as losing only affects 25% of the RPI and even then doesn't differentiate a loss to the bottom dweller to a loss to another top-10 team). Their RPI dropped because they played a team with a terrible winning %.
 
#31
#31
zansdad said:
That's just not true. Pearl fought because he had one of the best 4 records in the league but didn't get a bye. Playing a bottom feeder in the SEC tourny and beating them doesn NOT hurt your RPI.
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"The best teams need to advance in the tournament," Pearl said. "We played LSU last year in the first round and that hurt our RPI. I know the one thing they do in the Big East is protect the top seeds so they're not playing a lower RPI team in the tournament."

Just quoting Bruce Pearl....
 
#34
#34
Sorry guys about the empty posts. Operator error. I will dock myself 1 days pay. :swoon3::swoon3:
 
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#35
#35
johnnybravo said:
"The best teams need to advance in the tournament," Pearl said. "We played LSU last year in the first round and that hurt our RPI. I know the one thing they do in the Big East is protect the top seeds so they're not playing a lower RPI team in the tournament."

Just quoting Bruce Pearl....
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SEC needs to change two-division setup to ensure better postseason - ESPN

This is a blog by Katz with that quote in it. If you read the paragraph just above what you quoted, Pearl gives his real reason for wanting to drop tourny seeding by divisions. At the end there, he is just trying to add some fuel to his argument.
 
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#36
#36
johnnybravo said:
Obviously, you really do not understand the rpi formula for NCAA basketball. Google can really be your friend.

75% of the rating comes not from anything the particular team in question actually accomplished on the floor, but how its opponents fared. Understanding that point is an important step in obtaining a clear understanding the RPI.

The 3 major rules to beat the rpi system is:

1) Play teams who have really good records, even if they're going to thrash you.
2) Duck teams who have really bad records, especially the weaker teams from the big conferences.
3) Stay at home

If a nationally ranked top-10 team playing a team from a low level conference (which happens to be a conference leader, and therefore has a very respectable record). The top-10 teams beats them by 25 and their RPI is improved (even though the RPI doesn't care how much they won by). However, if the same top-10 team played a team in the same low-level conference but with a poor record and beat them by 35, their RPI might plummet. This happened not because the margin they beat their opponents by was not enough, or really even whether they won or not (as losing only affects 25% of the RPI and even then doesn't differentiate a loss to the bottom dweller to a loss to another top-10 team). Their RPI dropped because they played a team with a terrible winning %.
Click to expand...

My understanding of the RPI is just fine thanks. Also, the RPI is designed to punish teams for staying at home and reward them for going on the road. So how do you come up with #3 on your way to beat the RPI?
 
#38
#38
#39
#39
zansdad said:
My understanding of the RPI is just fine thanks. Also, the RPI is designed to punish teams for staying at home and reward them for going on the road. So how do you come up with #3 on your way to beat the RPI?
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The RPI formulation has no factor what so ever where a game is played. The RPI is based solely on winning percentage.

Teams winning percentage = 25%
Opponent's winning % = 50%
Opponent's opponent's winning % = 25%

The rpi does NOT weigh in home court advantage at all. So please expain to me how a team is punished or rewarded depending on where the game is played based on this mathmatical formulation?
 
#40
#40
johnnybravo said:
The fact is that you said that beating a team with a very high rpi will NOT (as you put it) hurt your rpi. Just proving that it does.
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Pretty sure I said low (or at least I meant to), but I get your point.

I still don't agree but arguing it seems pointless. It's all water under the bridge now that they have gone to seeing teams straight from 1-14.
 
#41
#41
johnnybravo said:
The RPI formulation has no factor what so ever where a game is played. The RPI is based solely on winning percentage.

Teams winning percentage = 25%
Opponent's winning % = 50%
Opponent's opponent's winning % = 25%

The rpi does NOT weigh in home court advantage at all. So please expain to me how a team is punished or rewarded depending on where the game is played based on this mathmatical formulation?
Click to expand...

Google can be your friend too.:)

1.4 value for road wins and home losses
0.6 value for home wins and road losses
1.0 value for neutral site wins and losses

So beating a team on the road is 2+ times more valuable than beating them at home. And losing at home is 2+ times worse for your RPI than losing on the road.
 
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#42
#42
zansdad said:
Google can be your friend too.:)

1.4 value for road wins and home losses
0.6 value for home wins and road losses
1.0 value for neutral site wins and losses

So beating a team on the road is 2+ times more valuable than beating them at home. And loosing at home is 2+ times worse for your RPI than loosing on the road.
Click to expand...

You are absolutely correct. But the home / loss factors only account for the 25% of the formulation. The other 75% comes from the opponent's and opponent's opponent's winning percentage. But again the home away does factor into the equation. Learned something today. Thanks.
 
#43
#43
zansdad said:
Google can be your friend too.:)

1.4 value for road wins and home losses
0.6 value for home wins and road losses
1.0 value for neutral site wins and losses

So beating a team on the road is 2+ times more valuable than beating them at home. And loosing at home is 2+ times worse for your RPI than loosing on the road.
Click to expand...

Lusing.
 
#44
#44
johnnybravo said:
You are absolutely correct. But the home / loss factors only account for the 25% of the formulation. The other 75% comes from the opponent's and opponent's opponent's winning percentage. But again the home away does factor into the equation. Learned something today. Thanks.
Click to expand...

Obviously, you're welcome.
 
#48
#48
zansdad said:
I would like to see the conference adopt the old model the NFL used when determining who those last 4 games are against. Since all other things are equal (except the 1 rivalry game), UK should have the toughest 4 games against repeat oponents and South Carolina and Auburn should have the easiest. It wouldn't be the difficult to come up with a matrix that showed who played whom based on finish the year before.
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That would have killed Vandy 11/12-12/13
 
#49
#49
Some talk that CCM will offer Kentucky an OOC game if the SEC takes away the 2nd game every year. It'd keep It so that it was sti a home and home every year, BUT only one of those games would count as a conference game.

In sure cal won't take this as he's not about playing in others gyms now, see nc and Indiana series. I like the fact though that CCM will put it out there it seems and make calipari come out and turn it down.

Could always make it a neutral site game in Memphis!!! We want to get into Memphis one a year anyways, and I'm sure calipari wouldn't mind that exposure. I'm sure pastner would freak out at the thought of UK-UT playing in Memphis every year though.
 
#50
#50
bleedingTNorange said:
Some talk that CCM will offer Kentucky an OOC game if the SEC takes away the 2nd game every year. It'd keep It so that it was sti a home and home every year, BUT only one of those games would count as a conference game.

In sure cal won't take this as he's not about playing in others gyms now, see nc and Indiana series. I like the fact though that CCM will put it out there it seems and make calipari come out and turn it down.

Could always make it a neutral site game in Memphis!!! We want to get into Memphis one a year anyways, and I'm sure calipari wouldn't mind that exposure. I'm sure pastner would freak out at the thought of UK-UT playing in Memphis every year though.
Click to expand...

I really like the idea of a neutral site game in Memphis. Great exposure in West TN, keep two games a year with KY, and piss of Pastner.
 
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