Tennessee preparing for the future with salaries for athletes.

[butchna]

Come on, who actually thinks an athlete’s name, image, or likeness is worth big money. Do you honestly think Nico’s name image or likeness was worth a $1M a year coming out of HS. Certainly very very few in Tenn could have picked his picture out of a group of 5 pictures. I’m a Vol fan and I still couldn’t tell you any product or business he represents. Stop acting like the NIL was ever anything other than code for paying players. The big 3 college sports are going to be leagues, just not called NFL, NBA, or MLB. They will be paid based on revenue sharing of TV contracts. Collectives are / were a short term bridge to get there.

Where’d that $8 mil come from? How come Caleb Williams was a millionaire before he won the Heisman? How come HIGH SCHOOL athletes are banking and driving Mercedes in states that allow NIL before college? You underestimate the market for these kids. Businesses court them early and the MONEY is there. You also underestimate the masses who are interested in the next big thing. They dominate a forum on this board.

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

Come on, who actually thinks an athlete’s name, image, or likeness is worth big money. Do you honestly think Nico’s name image or likeness was worth a $1M a year coming out of HS. Certainly very very few in Tenn could have picked his picture out of a group of 5 pictures. I’m a Vol fan and I still couldn’t tell you any product or business he represents. Stop acting like the NIL was ever anything other than code for paying players. The big 3 college sports are going to be leagues, just not called NFL, NBA, or MLB. They will be paid based on revenue sharing of TV contracts. Collectives are / were a short term bridge to get there.

Stop conflating NIL with salaries from the University. Stop acting like you know who most of the kids being recruited are before they sign their offer.

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

Well the universities are going to insist on maintaining the AUSPICE of students working in an academic environment and they will succeed because they own the STAGE. The infrastructure, fanbase, STADIUMS, marketing, training facilities, employment of coaches and support staff…he’ll even food and lodging. “Go to class or go start your own ******* league! Ask the USFL, XFL, WFL et al how easy that is from scratch!”

The universities aren't going to shut down their athletic departments and close their stadiums and arenas if they have to start paying players.

There's too much money involved. The schools know that half a loaf is better than none at all.

 

[VolForLife83]

Just not true. A very low percentage go on to NFL.

We know that, but these kids have a make or break mentality when it comes to the NFL. Education is usually on the back burner. Id be willing to bet a large majority can't even do high school level work, muchless college. Reality don't set in until after the fact.

 

[Voltopia]

Go ahead and take the entire group off campus and make them similar to a minor league sports league with each team having a tie in / agreement with the university to use their name and title. That way you get the players AWAY from the campus and let students use it to further actual education based on merit and scholarship. The students still get the benefit of the games and student life, while the citizens still get thier sports pride and players / coaches / staff get their payday.

Why would there be any pride about a bunch of paid workers playing a sport with other paid workers? They don't have any real connection to the school or the region at that point, they're not members of the student body, and they'll leave at the drop of a hat (or the drop of a much bigger bag). So what's the attraction? I can understand backing young people who choose to continue their lives and careers in Knoxville, but I can't really understand backing a professional sports team that really only cares as much as they're paid to care. I guess I can understand watching them if they're on TV, I suppose, but having the passion people have for their local schools and towns? Not a chance. They're different propositions entirely.

I've been at plenty of workplaces where they'd say stuff like "we're a family" or "we take pride in our work" or all that nonsense. No one cared. We just wanted our paychecks. And in a world where it's just about paychecks, when you know that winning and losing isn't as big a deal as the next contract or the next job move, I don't understand getting too invested in it.

I know, I know, cue the laundry list of "they players never cared/they were always just paid mercenaries" comments. I don't think that's true, but I know that's always the response. Nothing in the past is like what we're facing now, but where that fact is inconvenient, it's also ignored.

 

[iuvol]

Unless you attend NC, they can always change grades with no punishment

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Well the universities are going to insist on maintaining the AUSPICE of students working in an academic environment and they will succeed because they own the STAGE. The infrastructure, fanbase, STADIUMS, marketing, training facilities, employment of coaches and support staff…he’ll even food and lodging. “Go to class or go start your own ******* league! Ask the USFL, XFL, WFL et al how easy that is from scratch!”

They've done a helluva job making sure NIL doesn't look like pay for play, as we've all seen.

Legally, they lost control of NIL quickly. EVERYONE knows NIL is pay for play now.

Legally, they'll lose control of student status pretty quickly also when the players are paid via the school directly.

It's an awful idea to let the schools pay players directly.

 

[WoodsmanVol]

I believe Cardale Jones once said, "We ain't come to play school, classes are pointless."
Or something like that.

You're probably right, my memory isn't what it once was.

 

[butchna]

They've done a helluva job making sure NIL doesn't look like pay for play, as we've all seen.

Legally, they lost control of NIL quickly. EVERYONE knows NIL is pay for play now.

Legally, they'll lose control of student status pretty quickly also when the players are paid via the school directly.

It's an awful idea to let the schools pay players directly.

Once again, you play for a COLLEGE? You’re going to have to go through the motions of being a STUDENT. The “control” is the employer wielding the STAGE being an academic institution! They’re not selling hamburgers!

 

[Delmar]

Once again, you play for a COLLEGE? You’re going to have to go through the motions of being a STUDENT. The “control” is the employer wielding the STAGE being an academic institution! They’re not selling hamburgers!

If academics was the most important piece of this equation, do you think Donde Plowman and the Tennessee AG would have pulled out all the stops (and spent a ton of money) to protect the football program in the NIL fight? The football program is a huge contributor to the university in both prestige and publicity and pulls in a ton of money. Plowman and the administration know what the game is and where their bread is buttered. This is headed toward full blown pay for play and there is nothing anybody can do to stop it.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Once again, you play for a COLLEGE? You’re going to have to go through the motions of being a STUDENT. The “control” is the employer wielding the STAGE being an academic institution! They’re not selling hamburgers!

The control is in the courts, as it is in NIL.

Making employees who are athletes also be students will likely be either bargained away via collective bargaining or seen as an unreasonable term of employment.

This is why paying players directly would be yet another mistake by the NCAA/schools.

 

[butchna]

The control is in the courts, as it is in NIL.

Making employees who are athletes also be students will likely be either bargained away via collective bargaining or seen as an unreasonable term of employment.

This is why paying players directly would be yet another mistake by the NCAA/schools.

Courts can’t (and won’t) force an academic institution to conduct a defacto sandlot league. What they’ll rule on is their rights as far as compensation. If you qualify as a student? You can be compensated. Don’t like those conditions? Go to Canada or play arena league.

 

[butchna]

If academics was the most important piece of this equation, do you think Donde Plowman and the Tennessee AG would have pulled out all the stops (and spent a ton of money) to protect the football program in the NIL fight? The football program is a huge contributor to the university in both prestige and publicity and pulls in a ton of money. Plowman and the administration know what the game is and where their bread is buttered. This is headed toward full blown pay for play and there is nothing anybody can do to stop it.

They run a university that has a highly profitable football program. THAT is what they fought to preserve. They’re not going into the football business. Unless you’re suggesting they’re shutting down the school, we’ll have to roll with the hypocrisy.

 

[butchna]

The control is in the courts, as it is in NIL.

Making employees who are athletes also be students will likely be either bargained away via collective bargaining or seen as an unreasonable term of employment.

This is why paying players directly would be yet another mistake by the NCAA/schools.

Courts.are.not.shutting.schools.down.to.run.a.professional.league. The money will have to happen under the hardship of academia. No court in the land will seize school assets and force otherwise.

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

Why would there be any pride about a bunch of paid workers playing a sport with other paid workers? They don't have any real connection to the school or the region at that point, they're not members of the student body, and they'll leave at the drop of a hat (or the drop of a much bigger bag). So what's the attraction? I can understand backing young people who choose to continue their lives and careers in Knoxville, but I can't really understand backing a professional sports team that really only cares as much as they're paid to care. I guess I can understand watching them if they're on TV, I suppose, but having the passion people have for their local schools and towns? Not a chance. They're different propositions entirely.

I've been at plenty of workplaces where they'd say stuff like "we're a family" or "we take pride in our work" or all that nonsense. No one cared. We just wanted our paychecks. And in a world where it's just about paychecks, when you know that winning and losing isn't as big a deal as the next contract or the next job move, I don't understand getting too invested in it.

I know, I know, cue the laundry list of "they players never cared/they were always just paid mercenaries" comments. I don't think that's true, but I know that's always the response. Nothing in the past is like what we're facing now, but where that fact is inconvenient, it's also ignored.

Using that rationale, why would anyone pay to see - or cheer for - a NFL, MLB, NBA, NHL, or an English Premiere League pro team? Never mind...

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

Once again, you play for a COLLEGE? You’re going to have to go through the motions of being a STUDENT. The “control” is the employer wielding the STAGE being an academic institution! They’re not selling hamburgers!

Not necessarily, given the current state of things. The old rules are disappearing fast.

The football teams make tons of money for the schools, at least in P4. The schools aren't going to voluntarily give they up, even if they have to give some of it to the athletes.

 

[DaddyChad]

Well Dexter Manley graduated from Oklahoma State 1981 and it was found out later after the Super Bowl he couldn't read. 11 seasons in the NFL so I guess he made it through life without being able to read with a college diploma. So it's been a farce for long time, some special player/students defy and are studious students but the big schools now have major tutors and have a high GPA with high % of players, with a little help from their tutors, it is what it is.

This is why I laugh at the scholarship should be pay enough. Most aren’t in school for their academic merit, they’re there to play sports. A lot will benefit from education but all would have an opportunity to benefit from life changing wealth. If a kid can barely read goes to college his freshman year and blows out his knee playing, is he going to be able to stay in school and improve his life?

 

[dieseldaddy]

Gonna make football and basketball majors. I can see it happening.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Courts can’t (and won’t) force an academic institution to conduct a defacto sandlot league. What they’ll rule on is their rights as far as compensation. If you qualify as a student? You can be compensated. Don’t like those conditions? Go to Canada or play arena league.

Justice Kavanaugh was very straightforward in comparing players to various employees. He was also very clear in stating no other industry in America could treat its workers like the NCAA treats college athletes without paying them market value.

It's pretty clear that is coming. By directly compensating players from the schools, it virtually hands the players employee status.

If you're trying to claim the schools can require HIRED ATHLETES to attend classes not related to their job, exactly how much control do you think an employer should have in America?

Can your employer hire you as an accountant, then insist you take courses in history to keep your job? Why?

 

[DaddyChad]

Stop conflating NIL with salaries from the University. Stop acting like you know who most of the kids being recruited are before they sign their offer.

It’s funny we have so many on here raging against NIL and most of them have zero understanding of it. Companies were trying to sign some kids to endorsement deals in basketball when they were in high school years back. Not bc anyone knew who they were right away but bc they knew that player would be marketable in the future. Now of course there’s some element of pay to play to this, it unavoidable. The people in the positions of power have no issue with it when it’s for a kid going to Ohio State or Bama though.

 

[butchna]

Justice Kavanaugh was very straightforward in comparing players to various employees. He was also very clear in stating no other industry in America could treat its workers like the NCAA treats college athletes without paying them market value.

It's pretty clear that is coming. By directly compensating players from the schools, it virtually hands the players employee status.

If you're trying to claim the schools can require HIRED ATHLETES to attend classes not related to their job, exactly how much control do you think an employer should have in America?

Can your employer hire you as an accountant, then insist you take courses in history to keep your job? Why?

All about COMPENSATION. Nothing about forcing a university to hire workers. Show me the language saying that. You wouldn’t be FORCING jack. They can decline to be a student and not be on the SCHOOL team. Students participating in a research grant can’t flunk out of school or skip classes and meet the terms of their agreement. You have to be a student in good standing to be a part of the university…otherwise you’re trespassing. As long as they’re providing the stage it’s their rules.

 

[butchna]

Not necessarily, given the current state of things. The old rules are disappearing fast.

The football teams make tons of money for the schools, at least in P4. The schools aren't going to voluntarily give they up, even if they have to give some of it to the athletes.

It’s necessarily. They’re not opening up a chain of Pal’s and calling it a dining hall. They’ll profit from their ASSOCIATION and there won’t be anything “voluntarily” about it. As long as universities provide education, they’re not branching out to professional franchises. Nothing to “give up”. They can do both.

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

All about COMPENSATION. Nothing about forcing a university to hire workers. Show me the language saying that. You wouldn’t be FORCING jack. They can decline to be a student and not be on the SCHOOL team. Students participating in a research grant can’t flunk out of school or skip classes and meet the terms of their agreement. You have to be a student in good standing to be a part of the university…otherwise you’re trespassing. As long as they’re providing the stage it’s their rules.

That's not going to last.

 

[butchna]

That's not going to last.

Sure it will. They have the stage. Who’s taking it away from them?

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

All about COMPENSATION. Nothing about forcing a university to hire workers. Show me the language saying that. You wouldn’t be FORCING jack. They can decline to be a student and not be on the SCHOOL team. Students participating in a research grant can’t flunk out of school or skip classes and meet the terms of their agreement. You have to be a student in good standing to be a part of the university…otherwise you’re trespassing. As long as they’re providing the stage it’s their rules.

Compensation that has been compared by the Supreme Court to paid professions and the quote is "The NCAA is not above the law."

So, with the NCAA business on the verge of being declared a professional athletic league, here's an idea: let's start paying the players directly from the school because that will let the court know we aren't running a pro sports league, right?

It's the worst possible idea and only speeds the courts to rule the teams ARE pro teams, the schools DON'T compensate the players at market value, and the NCAA and schools are in violation of Antitrust Law by not letting the players negotiate compensation.

Yes, Alston was ONLY about limiting academic compensation but after that ruling "magically" the NCAA starting allowing NIL compensation rather than fight Antitrust lawsuits.

The transfer case from James Madison was only about playing after a second transfer without sitting out, but after that "stay" of the transfer rules, the NCAA has "magically" suspended enforcing any transfer rules rather than fight Antitrust lawsuits.

With the handwriting on the wall that "student athlete" model violates Antitrust Law, the schools are thinking about INVITING an Antitrust lawsuit by starting to compensate players and NOT letting them collective bargain/unionize like...uh..... employees.