Tennessee Vols Basketball Recruiting

[cncchris33]

Perhaps the players interested understand that the role would be a potentially minimal one, so that will only attract certain types of players currently. Mid-floor, high-ish ceiling players that have an asterisk (meaning that surgery, not character) that could "out play" what other programs think they can still do are worth that spot.

Not sure I'm wording my thoughts properly here. I can try to clarify when I'm on lunch later.

I get what you're driving at, and it likely lines up with what @therickbol was saying a few posts up. Key is a cultural fit that may not be seeking a guaranteed 25 minutes per game. Perhaps he wants to be a leader and an example in work ethic and doing the little things. Every team can use that, and it gives him a chance to be a part of a potential championship team. Taking on that kind of role is usually a good first step towards a future in coaching if that his desired profession going forward.

 

[cncchris33]

Yuri, Santi & JJJ would all technically have another year if they chose to use it…also Murray isn’t as much of a guard like those guys as he is a smaller forward/3.

That is why I prefer Murray. I see him as a natural replacement to JJJ.

 

[MoCo_Vol]

West case Key isn’t productive and is what, your 10-11 man? Best case is it translates and no injury after effects and he’s your 7-8 man? I don’t think he changes the outlook much, and speaking of next years team I’m not sure Murray would either presuming you land PG. Obviously difference is that Murray would have a few years but you’d also have that spot for 2023 to add someone too.

But I'd rather keep QD and his 3-4 years of eligibility to develop instead of adding a 1 year 7-8 man (or worse 10-11 man).

 

[TheMookieMonster]

West case Key isn’t productive and is what, your 10-11 man? Best case is it translates and no injury after effects and he’s your 7-8 man? I don’t think he changes the outlook much, and speaking of next years team I’m not sure Murray would either presuming you land PG. Obviously difference is that Murray would have a few years but you’d also have that spot for 2023 to add someone too.

That's why I said it depends on what we do with the final 2 spots. If we take Key, but it means we land Collins and Phillips, then I agree with your statement that the worst case scenario isn't that big of a deal. But, if we miss on both Phillips and Collins, Key feels a bit less exciting because you'll need to expect more from him at that point.

 

[MoCo_Vol]

Yuri, Santi & JJJ would all technically have another year if they chose to use it…also Murray isn’t as much of a guard like those guys as he is a smaller forward/3.

We have guards and forwards on the roster. Murray is your JJJ replacement, and it'd be great if they got a year together.

I'm sure we'd keep Yuri, Santi, & JJJ for an extra year if they wanted to return...but I highly doubt any of them would. Each will have finished 4 years of college and (hopefully) the results next year are good enough that they have draft buzz and end up drafted.

 

[mr.checkerboards]

Give me QD over Key. It sucks not landing Murray though we need someone who can drive and finish. Ugh

 

[TheMookieMonster]

We have guards and forwards on the roster. Murray is your JJJ replacement, and it'd be great if they got a year together.

I'm sure we'd keep Yuri, Santi, & JJJ for an extra year if they wanted to return...but I highly doubt any of them would. Each will have finished 4 years of college and (hopefully) the results next year are good enough that they have draft buzz and end up drafted.

Yeah, I think the chances any of Yuri/JJJ/Santi staying for a COVID year is extremely unlikely. Even if they do not get drafted, they will at the absolute worst be highly sought after guys overseas, which you can still make a pretty penny doing. I think they'd be ready to move on with their lives at that point. Obviously, I'd LOVE and welcome a JJJ and Santi 5th year, I just don't see it happening. This year is the "last dance' for these two.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

That is why I prefer Murray. I see him as a natural replacement to JJJ.

Could be, as could Mashack, or Phillips assuming he’s not a one and done…or Justin Edwards who the staff feels good about.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

But I'd rather keep QD and his 3-4 years of eligibility to develop instead of adding a 1 year 7-8 man (or worse 10-11 man).

My guess is the staff probably feels like Q’s not gonna get there, so whether the move is this year or next they felt like a move is best.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

That's why I said it depends on what we do with the final 2 spots. If we take Key, but it means we land Collins and Murray, then I agree with your statement that the worst case scenario isn't that big of a deal. But, if we miss on both Phillips and Collins, Key feels a bit less exciting because you'll need to expect more from him at that point.

Yes very true, hard to see us only landing Key even if we were to miss on those 2 though.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

We have guards and forwards on the roster. Murray is your JJJ replacement, and it'd be great if they got a year together.

I'm sure we'd keep Yuri, Santi, & JJJ for an extra year if they wanted to return...but I highly doubt any of them would. Each will have finished 4 years of college and (hopefully) the results next year are good enough that they have draft buzz and end up drafted.

Mashack is as much a JJJ replacement, and Phillips as well.

 

[MoCo_Vol]

My guess is the staff probably feels like Q’s not gonna get there, so whether the move is this year or next they felt like a move is best.

True, honestly if Key is the guy that fills the spot though I think that hints it's more Q's decision than the staffs (which is fine too).

Much as I love the mix of lower ranked guys, typically as the team gets better you move on from the .80 to .92 rated guys to fill those spots with .92-.99 rated guys. Maybe they feel really good about where they are with some '23 kids and are willing to let Key fill a leadership role here since he's only got the one year left anyway.

 

[MoCo_Vol]

Mashack is as much a JJJ replacement, and Phillips as well.

Maybe, the difference is Murray has a year of tape where he proved he could be. Mashack & Phillips are still "maybes" until they show something. Not saying they can't be though.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Give me QD over Key. It sucks not landing Murray though we need someone who can drive and finish. Ugh

Each guys last year playing…

Key 4.4-8.0 from 2 for 55.4% and 5.1FTA/game @ 83.8%

Murray 2.5-5.2 from 2 for 48.8% and 2.0FTA/game @ 67.7%


Now I know your go to will be level of competition, and that is a fair question, but Key has excelled for 4 years getting into the paint and scoring or getting fouled. Does that translate? Nobody can say for sure either way, but that’s the strength of his game.

 

[MoCo_Vol]

Each guys last year playing…

Key 4.4-8.0 from 2 for 55.4% and 5.1FTA/game @ 83.8%

Murray 2.5-5.2 from 2 for 48.8% and 2.0FTA/game @ 67.7%


Now I know your go to will be level of competition, and that is a fair question, but Key has excelled for 4 years getting into the paint and scoring or getting fouled. Does that translate? Nobody can say for sure either way, but that’s the strength of his game.

My personal "why" between these two head to head is this.

Murray is bigger, has more eligibility left, with SEC experience and no (known) health concerns. Seeing how Turner's shoulder issues lingered and shortened his career I'm also more weary of Key because of that.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

My personal "why" between these two head to head is this.

Murray is bigger, has more eligibility left, with SEC experience and no (known) health concerns. Seeing how Turner's shoulder issues lingered and shortened his career I'm also more weary of Key because of that.

I don’t think anyone is advocating for Key over Murray, the staff is trying to land Murray, Key would be the consolation. My point simply was that both have a similar mindset of driving and getting to the rim and Key has been very successful at it.

Turner never had surgery and rehabbed for a year either, which maybe in hindsight he should have done? There’s plenty of examples of guys reconvening from shoulder issues and having strong careers.

 

[MoCo_Vol]

I don’t think anyone is advocating for Key over Murray, the staff is trying to land Murray, Key would be the consolation. My point simply was that both have a similar mindset of driving and getting to the rim and Key has been very successful at it.

Turner never had surgery and rehabbed for a year either, which maybe in hindsight he should have done? There’s plenty of examples of guys reconvening from shoulder issues and having strong careers.

Turner did have surgery in April 2019, but agree he should have sat the 19-20 season to rehab properly. He would have then been returning and playing alongside Keon, Jaden, Santi, Pons, JJJ and Fulky in that abbreviated 20-21 season healthy and the PG that squad seemed to really be missing.

 

[golfballs]

Key doesn’t really fit the mold of an impact player for Barnes. I’m not sure he’s known for his defense. So even if he can fill up a stat sheet at ISU, can he defend in the SEC? I’m not necessarily opposed to him at all. In fact if we have an open spot it probably wouldn’t be a bad move to bring him in because he does seem to be pretty versatile and he brings a lot of experience w him. Just would be an interesting fit.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Turner did have surgery in April 2019, but agree he should have sat the 19-20 season to rehab properly. He would have then been returning and playing alongside Keon, Jaden, Santi, Pons, JJJ and Fulky in that abbreviated 20-21 season healthy and the PG that squad seemed to really be missing.

That’s what I was saying, he never had surgery and fully rehabbed

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Key doesn’t really fit the mold of an impact player for Barnes. I’m not sure he’s known for his defense. So even if he can fill up a stat sheet at ISU, can he defend in the SEC? I’m not necessarily opposed to him at all. In fact if we have an open spot it probably wouldn’t be a bad move to bring him in because he does seem to be pretty versatile and he brings a lot of experience w him. Just would be an interesting fit.

It’s 2 years in a row they’ve tried to add him, I’m guessing there’s something Barnes sees as a fit/is attracted to

 

[Yeiser10]

My personal "why" between these two head to head is this.

Murray is bigger, has more eligibility left, with SEC experience and no (known) health concerns. Seeing how Turner's shoulder issues lingered and shortened his career I'm also more weary of Key because of that.

I mean I think clearly they want Murray first and foremost. So I don’t think it’s really a head to head thing. But they have a contingency in place in case Murray goes to Georgetown.

 

[MoCo_Vol]

Key doesn’t really fit the mold of an impact player for Barnes. I’m not sure he’s known for his defense. So even if he can fill up a stat sheet at ISU, can he defend in the SEC? I’m not necessarily opposed to him at all. In fact if we have an open spot it probably wouldn’t be a bad move to bring him in because he does seem to be pretty versatile and he brings a lot of experience w him. Just would be an interesting fit.

I think he'd fit in fine, but I think if he ends up here it's because we missed out on someone we likely had higher on the "want" list is all. He does have plenty of experience, 114 games and 97 starts with a career 32.4 mpg. He's been productive every season and arguably the best stat is his low turnovers. He was obviously the "first option" in their offense so his assists aren't very high so the ratio is skewed. But that many minutes playing and a career 1.6 turnovers a game average is fairly impressive at any level of competition.

Can he be productive here getting far less minutes though? Or are we going to have another inconsistent "scorer" coming off the bench like we had with Bailey?

Edit: the 4.5 FTAs a game is also nice, especially since he's over 50% on his 2PT shooting. So for a guy that active at driving to the rim the low turnovers is even better. I would hope that aspect of his game allows him to be a more consistent scorer here than Bailey was off the bench. Last year KC was our high FTA guy at 2.9. (but only shot 60.6%) so if you can add a guy that can give you that dribble drive BUT can also hit his FTAs at a better rate (which Key has done) then it's a good option.

Haven't seen a bunch of his film, but from a number dive Key is probably closer compared to Springer than any other recent UT player. Not a true PG, but has the ability and willingness to drive and get to the line. Will also make his 3s if left open.

 

[RyanWalkerPGH]

 

[The Dog]

So Pack is no longer an option ?

 

[johnfnkelly]

I'm on the fence with Key, honestly, especially coming off of a shoulder injury. He has a lot of "old man YMCA" to his game that I'm not sure how it translates to the SEC. To me, there is a significant difference in athleticism between Murray and Key, and Murray has proven his athleticism at the SEC level. Both have awkward-looking perimeter shots, but it seems to work. The additional 3 years of eligibility is a plus to me, as well.

I'm not sure anyone is arguing for Key over Murray, but to me, there is a significant drop-off from Murray to Key, so like you, I'm not entirely comfortable with Key being the consolation prize if Murray ultimately chooses Georgetown.

Key's numbers are somewhat promising but his film is.. not. "old man ymca" is a good way to describe his game.

Undersized, not a real explosive athlete and not a strong ball handler either.

A lot of his buckets come from bullying smaller guards in his conference. That's not gonna fly in the SEC. He's giving me guard version Anosike vibes.

If the alternative is to take another Tamba type prospect then I guess a one year rental of Key off the bench isn't the worst, assuming we bring in another lead guard.