Tennessee Vols Basketball Recruiting

#9,452
#9,452
VolFreakJosh said:
ZZ is tougher than anyone in this forum.

Considering he didn’t have any big time offers out of high school and worked his a$$ off during practice to get meaningful minutes despite being very undersized for a guard, is a dog in my book.

People forget where he came from.
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Idk. I'm pretty tough, tbh
 
#9,453
#9,453
VolFreakJosh said:
Well I know one thing, the posters who said “Barnes cheats too” can be laid to rest now if the rumors are indeed true.

Huge respect for Barnes for being a great man trying to do things the right way but unfortunately, times have changed and it’s not working in his favor.

Honestly, this would be the best time to call it quits regardless the outcome of next season. He doesn’t have to deal with the NIL nor get his hands dirty and still go out with a good reputation.
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Thing is, NIL isn’t cheating. I think he just finds it distasteful to have to bargain with kids.
 
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#9,454
#9,454
cncchris33 said:
Again, I'm NOT calling for his head. In my hot take, I think he will step out on his own terms. But, man, if those rumors are true (and they are coming from multiple sources), then I think you have to admit it's pretty damning evidence.
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I understand and realize that you are just raising concerns. While NIL is something new and big, the man has found a way to figure it out for 40 years. Probably time for me to enjoy the baseball team for a while. I think the reactions this time of year can be a bit extreme, and I can’t get past him being 10-7 against UK, which I’ve never seen in my time following the program. I’m not going to worry about it now.
 
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#9,458
#9,458
cncchris33 said:
I'm not to the point of calling for Rick's head. After all, I've defended him more than he probably deserves.

BUT, if he isn't careful, as one other poster intimated, he could quickly undo all the good he's done in 7 years, and Tennessee is back to hiring a replacement coming in to a mid-level SEC team that has been lapped by more progressive teams like Arkansas, Alabama, and Auburn, not to mention mainstays like Kentucky. I'd really hate for him to sour his legacy due to selfish pride or stubbornness.

I love Barnes, but man, you have to change with the times, even if you don't agree with them. If you won't change, then you have to know when to get out of the way and bow out. The game isn't the same one he devoted himself to as a coach, mentor, and developer, 40 years ago. You either change with it, or you move on.

Bruin used to make one or two red-hot takes each offseason, so in his honor, I'll make one, now. The 2022-23 season will be Rick Barnes last season as Tennessee's head coach. The 2022 class is pretty much disastrous. Even if he manages to recover and fill the open spots with capable players, none of them will be first or even second options, at this point. If the rumors of his rigid approach to NIL, Spyre, the transfer portal, and his assistant coaches are true, I can't see the 2023 class making much more headway. I think he will tire of the pressures of coaching, the new era of recruiting, and just say, "You know what, I've had enough. I don't need this", and bow out gracefully into retirement. And hey, if he isn't willing to budge on his own scruples, even I'm willing to admit it's probably for the best for everyone involved, him included.

We will see.
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Are you sure Barnes is too rigid to adjust? Seems like just this season we adopted more 3 pointers and less mid range shots? We’re all disappointed with the recent lack of success in the portal, but we landed Johnson, Springer, and Chandler in the 2 prior classes so it’s not like we’re getting boat raced in recruiting as we had a top 5 class last year. I think we have a solid group next year and I’m choosing to wait and see the following season before looking to call Barnes no longer capable.
 
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#9,459
#9,459
cncchris33 said:
I'm not to the point of calling for Rick's head. After all, I've defended him more than he probably deserves.

BUT, if he isn't careful, as one other poster intimated, he could quickly undo all the good he's done in 7 years, and Tennessee is back to hiring a replacement coming in to a mid-level SEC team that has been lapped by more progressive teams like Arkansas, Alabama, and Auburn, not to mention mainstays like Kentucky. I'd really hate for him to sour his legacy due to selfish pride or stubbornness.

I love Barnes, but man, you have to change with the times, even if you don't agree with them. If you won't change, then you have to know when to get out of the way and bow out. The game isn't the same one he devoted himself to as a coach, mentor, and developer, 40 years ago. You either change with it, or you move on.

Bruin used to make one or two red-hot takes each offseason, so in his honor, I'll make one, now. The 2022-23 season will be Rick Barnes last season as Tennessee's head coach. The 2022 class is pretty much disastrous. Even if he manages to recover and fill the open spots with capable players, none of them will be first or even second options, at this point. If the rumors of his rigid approach to NIL, Spyre, the transfer portal, and his assistant coaches are true, I can't see the 2023 class making much more headway. I think he will tire of the pressures of coaching, the new era of recruiting, and just say, "You know what, I've had enough. I don't need this", and bow out gracefully into retirement. And hey, if he isn't willing to budge on his own scruples, even I'm willing to admit it's probably for the best for everyone involved, him included.

We will see.
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Had the thought today while I was mowing that this might all lead back to Barnes. I like him and I have defended him repeatedly, but I don't think he has any interest in competing in this new recruiting paradigm.

I think your hot take is off by a year. It's going to end up happening this off-season, not next. I think there will be too much attention around all of this for DW to not discuss with CRB whether he wants to play NIL ball. I expect CRB will not like having to answer those questions because they will force him to admit that he, like CJW, just isn't willing to do what has to be done in this new environment. I believe DW will try first to help him adapt, but if Barnes won't then I think he will encourage him to help with the transition sooner rather than later.

As much as it pains me after last season, I am afraid NIL has forced us to this point. Hope I am wrong...
 
#9,460
#9,460
walkenvol said:
Are you sure Barnes is too rigid to adjust? Seems like just this season we adopted more 3 pointers and less mid range shots? We’re all disappointed with the recent lack of success in the portal, but we landed Johnson, Springer, and Chandler in the 2 prior classes so it’s not like we’re getting boat raced in recruiting as we had a top 5 class last year. I think we have a solid group next year and I’m choosing to wait and see the following season before looking to call Barnes no longer capable.
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Am I sure? No.

To your point though, I think it’s two different issues to discuss his recent willingness to adjust the strategies of how the game is played on the court, and the willingness to compromise something that he may view as a moral/ethical/scrupulous dilemma that doesn’t align with your character.
 
#9,461
#9,461
vol9799 said:
Had the thought today while I was mowing that this might all lead back to Barnes. I like him and I have defended him repeatedly, but I don't think he has any interest in competing in this new recruiting paradigm.

I think your hot take is off by a year. It's going to end up happening this off-season, not next. I think there will be too much attention around all of this for DW to not discuss with CRB whether he wants to play NIL ball. I expect CRB will not like having to answer those questions because they will force him to admit that he, like CJW, just isn't willing to do what has to be done in this new environment. I believe DW will try first to help him adapt, but if Barnes won't then I think he will encourage him to help with the transition sooner rather than later.

As much as it pains me after last season, I am afraid NIL has forced us to this point. Hope I am wrong...
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I don’t think White strong-arming him into a career decision at this point in the offseason is good for anyone involved. Hiring a replacement and convincing the remaining players to stick around, much less filling out a roster could prove difficult
I could be wrong, and after all, since this is a crazy hypothetical for each of us, I won’t fault you for having that opinion.
 
#9,462
#9,462
cncchris33 said:
Am I sure? No.

To your point though, I think it’s two different issues to discuss his recent willingness to adjust the strategies of how the game is played on the court, and the willingness to compromise something that he may view as a moral/ethical/scrupulous dilemma that doesn’t align with your character.
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That’s fair, but I’m not understanding what is immoral or unethical about NIL being executed by Spyre?
 
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#9,463
#9,463
cncchris33 said:
I'm not to the point of calling for Rick's head. After all, I've defended him more than he probably deserves.

BUT, if he isn't careful, as one other poster intimated, he could quickly undo all the good he's done in 7 years, and Tennessee is back to hiring a replacement coming in to a mid-level SEC team that has been lapped by more progressive teams like Arkansas, Alabama, and Auburn, not to mention mainstays like Kentucky. I'd really hate for him to sour his legacy due to selfish pride or stubbornness.

I love Barnes, but man, you have to change with the times, even if you don't agree with them. If you won't change, then you have to know when to get out of the way and bow out. The game isn't the same one he devoted himself to as a coach, mentor, and developer, 40 years ago. You either change with it, or you move on.

Bruin used to make one or two red-hot takes each offseason, so in his honor, I'll make one, now. The 2022-23 season will be Rick Barnes last season as Tennessee's head coach. The 2022 class is pretty much disastrous. Even if he manages to recover and fill the open spots with capable players, none of them will be first or even second options, at this point. If the rumors of his rigid approach to NIL, Spyre, the transfer portal, and his assistant coaches are true, I can't see the 2023 class making much more headway. I think he will tire of the pressures of coaching, the new era of recruiting, and just say, "You know what, I've had enough. I don't need this", and bow out gracefully into retirement. And hey, if he isn't willing to budge on his own scruples, even I'm willing to admit it's probably for the best for everyone involved, him included.

We will see.
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Regarding your first sentence, I am glad to hear you are not calling for CRB’s head because any UT fan calling for CRB’s head at the moment is clueless.

As for your concerns about the future, you may be right or you may be wrong. I don’t know. As for me, recruiting is fun to follow but I don’t get too worked up about it. If I was in charge, I wouldn’t trade Barnes for any other coach in the SEC but that’s just me. When Barnes puts a crappy team on the floor, I will get concerned. In today’s college basketball landscape, looking more than one year in advance is futile and I am still very optimistic about next year. YurI Collins isn’t going to make us or break us.
 
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#9,464
#9,464
I would highly doubt any head coaching movement for UT would happen this offseason. If that were going to happen, you ideally would've liked that to happen a month ago or so. Now, you've really put a new HC in a bad spot with the roster, and more guys are likely to leave if Barnes stepped away. Plus, the coaching prospects to replace Barnes are much thinner now than they would've been even 3 weeks ago when basically every good option was still on the table.

I don't think Barnes would do that to Tennessee. You can bash him all you want about March and other things, but one thing he IS is a good person and respectful to where he works. I would be very surprised if he put UT in a bad position by leaving this offseason at this point in the offseason.
 
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#9,466
#9,466
walkenvol said:
That’s fair, but I’m not understanding what is immoral or unethical about NIL being executed by Spyre?
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I’m projecting a bit, perhaps, but what I’m thinking/gathering is that Barnes likely doesn’t feel like he should have to work with a collective to determine how much money an 18-year old player should be guaranteed to come play basketball at the school. Legal and ethical aren’t mutually exclusive. Barnes can personally disagree with the ethical modeling of a certain, now-legal process, and frown on the idea that those kids are picking schools for all the wrong reasons and essentially pimping themselves out to the highest bidder. That adjustment is much easier for coaches who were already on board with the idea of paying players.
 
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#9,467
#9,467
cncchris33 said:
I’m projecting a bit, perhaps, but what I’m thinking/gathering is that Barnes likely doesn’t feel like he should have to work with a collective to determine how much money an 18-year old player should be guaranteed to come play basketball at the school. Legal and ethical aren’t mutually exclusive. Barnes can personally disagree with the ethical modeling of a certain, now-legal process, and frown on the idea that those kids are picking schools for all the wrong reasons and essentially pimping themselves out to the highest bidder. That adjustment is much easier for coaches who were already on board with the idea of paying players.
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I would doubt Barnes is against players making money. I would guess he against having to recruit players by simply being the highest bidder. It’s really not recruiting anymore- it’s just giving out the bid.

I also believe he and other UT programs aren’t looking for kids who want the highest bidder. They want kids who have something inside of them and are motivated to get better and help continue the culture. He wants a Grant Williams, who is about to get paid next year.
 
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#9,468
#9,468
If Barnes really is mishandling NiL that badly, something has to change and it needs to come from above his head that he needs to do it. It's absolutely unbelievable to me that a coach would sabotage his own program that way. There's no sugar coating it or positive spin. In this situation you either get on board or get ran over. DeVoe couldn't adjust to the shot clock rules change and it set the program back a decade in the long run. We can't afford to have a coach who won't actively embrace the new phase of the game.
 
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#9,469
#9,469
It was my understanding that the coaches weren’t supposed to be involved in NIL although it’s easy to imagine many coaches insert themselves into the process. Seems like UT basketball could function just fine following the rules without Barnes involvement in the NIL process. Wouldn’t be hard for Spyre to find out who Barnes is recruiting then talk NIL directly to the recruits
 
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#9,471
#9,471
AngryButchJones said:
I would highly doubt any head coaching movement for UT would happen this offseason. If that were going to happen, you ideally would've liked that to happen a month ago or so. Now, you've really put a new HC in a bad spot with the roster, and more guys are likely to leave if Barnes stepped away. Plus, the coaching prospects to replace Barnes are much thinner now than they would've been even 3 weeks ago when basically every good option was still on the table.

I don't think Barnes would do that to Tennessee. You can bash him all you want about March and other things, but one thing he IS is a good person and respectful to where he works. I would be very surprised if he put UT in a bad position by leaving this offseason at this point in the offseason.
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I feel like I’m taking crazy pills
 
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#9,472
#9,472
VolGee4 said:
I would doubt Barnes is against players making money. I would guess he against having to recruit players by simply being the highest bidder. It’s really not recruiting anymore- it’s just giving out the bid.

I also believe he and other UT programs aren’t looking for kids who want the highest bidder. They want kids who have something inside of them and are motivated to get better and help continue the culture. He wants a Grant Williams, who is about to get paid next year.
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Yeah, that was my point
 
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#9,473
#9,473
walkenvol said:
It was my understanding that the coaches weren’t supposed to be involved in NIL although it’s easy to imagine many coaches insert themselves into the process. Seems like UT basketball could function just fine following the rules without Barnes involvement in the NIL process. Wouldn’t be hard for Spyre to find out who Barnes is recruiting then talk NIL directly to the recruits
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Coaches are the portal between recruits and the NiL deals. If Barnes truly isn't communicating with Spyre about recruits, it's on him and he is dropping the ball regarding the program.
 
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#9,474
#9,474
I don’t know about all that tampering stuff with Collins and SLU threatening to make a stink. Could be that SLU didn’t come up with as big an offer but it was enough to keep him there. Some guys enjoy being the big fish in a small pond. Might be that old saying: “If you don’t want to run with the big dogs, stay on the porch.” Doesn’t look like Collins wants to run with the big dogs to me. Had the chance and stayed on the porch. Separate subject. I will always be a Barnes supporter for his class and where he’s brought this program. But this NIL and portal thing is a new world. And we all have to know that some old line coaches are not going to deal with it. They may just head off into the sunset. I’ve always thought Barnes would coach for another 3 years but he may not be flexible enough. This mess might speed up his timeline. And I really wouldn’t blame him. Must be tough using half your time to figure out how to buy players. Sure it’s always been done but it’s out in the open now to the highest bidder. Combine that with the portal and players leaving for the slightest thing and it’s a dang zoo.
 
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