Tennessee Will Never Be Elite Again (2021 Article)

#26
#26
Just like a country or any other enterprise, a program rises and falls based on its leadership. Just like a single leader can destroy all the good a program has done, a single leader can also make it rise again, like a phoenix from the ashes.

I think it is pretty clear that Danny White -> Josh Heupel is the leader we were missing.
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#28
#28
BigOrangeTrain said:
Totally agreed. I remember when Heupel was hired, the feeling around here was, for the most part, meh. I know I thought White cheaped out because I had to google Heupels name. Any Vol fan that tells you they foresaw Heupel doing what he has is lying.

Josh Heupel has vastly exceeded all expectations.
Click to expand...

I didn't quite have to Google his name because of the Oklahoma thing, but like you I thought Heup would be here 5-6 years and then be let go. My pie in the sky hopes were that he would get the program stabilized after the sanctions a-bomb and maybe just maybe get us back to a bowl near the end. Honestly, considering how things were-I would have been thrilled with that and called it job well done.

I didn't see what happened coming.

Honestly, that probably made the entire situation more fun in 2022. You told us in January 21 that in under 20.momths we would be marching into LSU and eviscerating them AND take down Bama in the CFB game of the decade-even the most sunshine pumpers amongst us would have brought you a straight jacket.
 
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#29
#29
dieseldaddy said:
To be fair, at the time not single fan could have forseen the rise of Heupel. I certainly didn't.
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I didn’t see Heupel coming but if you look on the comments section I did say that I thought this article was ridiculous and that it was ludicrous to make such a strong prediction when time has shown programs rise fall and rise again.

Basically a lot if people knew TN could not stay down forever as this short sighted author suggested
 
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#32
#32
This is a weird thread.

First, have we proven Matt Hayes wrong yet? It's like a bunch of readers think they are dancing on his grave. Since he wrote "...The days of Tennessee consistently winning big and competing at the highest level of college football are long gone.", we have done this:

7-6, finished unranked in CFP
11-2, finished 6th
9-4, finished 21st
4-0 so far, untested against elite programs.

Is anyone here truly saying we have proven the writer wrong? We have a great trajectory now, but have not accomplished anything elite yet.


Second, plenty of us loved the Heupel hire. Didn't know what kind of culture he would bring in the locker room, but we ALL knew he'd bring high octane offense that would at least re-engage fan interest and attract recruits. And maybe more, since he's young and hadn't yet gotten a chance on the big stage. All successful coaches at one point had an intriguing-but-untested profile.
 
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#33
#33
BigOrangeTrain said:
Totally agreed. I remember when Heupel was hired, the feeling around here was, for the most part, meh. I know I thought White cheaped out because I had to google Heupels name. Any Vol fan that tells you they foresaw Heupel doing what he has is lying.

Josh Heupel has vastly exceeded all expectations.
Click to expand...
You having to google his name fits in perfectly with your absolute total ignorance of this sport.
 
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#35
#35
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#38
#38
RDU VOL#14 said:
The love Dan Lanning gets for never having won a big game is crazy. I think he’s a good coach, but putting him at #7 is laughable. Then again, most of Matt Hayes stuff is too
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…he barks at opposing fanbases. What would you expect?
 
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#40
#40
SockeyeVol said:
This is a weird thread.

First, have we proven Matt Hayes wrong yet? It's like a bunch of readers think they are dancing on his grave. Since he wrote "...The days of Tennessee consistently winning big and competing at the highest level of college football are long gone.", we have done this:

7-6, finished unranked in CFP
11-2, finished 6th
9-4, finished 21st
4-0 so far, untested against elite programs.

Is anyone here truly saying we have proven the writer wrong? We have a great trajectory now, but have not accomplished anything elite yet.
Click to expand...

eyeroll_cmon.gif
No, this thread isn't weird, and yes, I'm comfortable calling Matt Hayes wrong. And a jackass. And a stupid moron with an ugly face and a big butt and his butt smells -- and he likes to kiss his own butt.
 
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#42
#42
Voltopia said:
View attachment 683410
No, this thread isn't weird, and yes, I'm comfortable calling Matt Hayes wrong. And a jackass. And a stupid moron with an ugly face and a big butt and his butt smells -- and he likes to kiss his own butt.
Click to expand...
Agreed. Most of the things he said were factually wrong. Even ignoring whats happened since then. he was 100% wrong about its recruiting base and success. We have NEVER had recruiting issues. We have first world problems in recruiting. There are 120 colleges in the USA that would trade their recruiting situation with UT's in our worst years. he is like we wont be elite because we lose recruits to UGA? that means no school is gonna be elite ever because all schools lose recruits to UGA, BAMA OSU and both UT's on a regular basis. We compete with elite programs for recruits every year and they compete with US.. because we are in that same zip code recruiting-wise and always have been.

The issues UT had we organizational. We had issues translating talent to wins. Our down (recruiting) years were still top 25 out of 134. If that's not elite what is? Year in year out over the last 50 years only a handful of schools have had the sustained success we have. Between 08 and 2020 we had a bad run. Other than that we have been an elite program almost 100 years. When we fell off we fell off hard.. historically hard..But it was all the Administration that was in place..The good ole boy system is out and we are back.

I think a lot of UT fans are so stuck on comparing ourselves to the top 1-3 teams in the nation we forget we are in the 90+ percentile. That means 9 times out of 10 we are in a better position than any other college you compare us to. That is elite and that's even with the recent 13 years of terrible counted in. We have been in the SEC so long we don't have a good perception of what good and bad is. Its hilarious to see people saying that 9-10 win teams are trash. To win 8+ games you have to be good. You might not be the best but you are shopping at Whole Foods not Aldis.

Here are a few wild stats
In seasons where at least 11 regular season games were played only 7 times has UT won less than 6 games.. all of those happened between 2005 and 2018 (2020 was a 10 game season). We have not won less than 4 games in the modern era during a full season.

Since the advent of color TV UT has 7 4 win seasons plus 2020(10 game season 3 wins). The last time we only won 3 or fewer games in a full season was 1924 (8 game season).

All of our seasons with less than 4 wins came in pre overtime years (we had multiple ties games those years). Except for 2 years 2020 and 1924.

As UT fans we have been spoiled. no one under the age of 100 has seen the Vols fall as low as what we went through. We have been cranking out 8-10 wins since 1970 and only 4 schools (all in the SEC) have been to more bowl games than UT.

BOWL GAMES
1.Alabama77
2.Georgia62
3.Texas59
4.Oklahoma57
5.Tennessee56
6.LSU55
6.Ohio State55
6.USC55
9.Nebraska53
9.Penn State53
11.Michigan52
12.Clemson50
13.Florida State49
14.Florida48
15.Auburn47
16.Georgia Tech46
17.Arkansas44
18.Miami (FL)43
19.Texas A&M42
19.Washington42
21.Ole Miss41
21.Texas Tech41
23.BYU40
23.Notre Dame40
23.West Virginia40
26.North Carolina38
 
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#44
#44
UCVOL said:
I never forgot about this article. I think it's time to go remind this clown on Twitter.

The truth hurts, but here it is: Tennessee, you will never be elite again...

Article:
www.saturdaydownsouth.com

First and 10: The truth hurts, but here it is. Tennessee, you will never be elite again

Tennessee has to accept the reality that the 1990s are long gone and not coming back. Matt Hayes explains why, what's realistic and what's next for the Vols.
www.saturdaydownsouth.com www.saturdaydownsouth.com

Matt Hayes Twitter (X) Account: x.com
Click to expand...
Writers need clicks and he got them. Now it is time for someone in the press to tell him Tennessee’s record for the past 4 years and have a rebuttal article written by a Tennessee fan and see how many clicks they can get. Just an idea, lol.
 
#47
#47
SockeyeVol said:
This is a weird thread.

First, have we proven Matt Hayes wrong yet? It's like a bunch of readers think they are dancing on his grave. Since he wrote "...The days of Tennessee consistently winning big and competing at the highest level of college football are long gone.", we have done this:

7-6, finished unranked in CFP
11-2, finished 6th
9-4, finished 21st
4-0 so far, untested against elite programs.

Is anyone here truly saying we have proven the writer wrong? We have a great trajectory now, but have not accomplished anything elite yet.


Second, plenty of us loved the Heupel hire. Didn't know what kind of culture he would bring in the locker room, but we ALL knew he'd bring high octane offense that would at least re-engage fan interest and attract recruits. And maybe more, since he's young and hadn't yet gotten a chance on the big stage. All successful coaches at one point had an intriguing-but-untested profile.
Click to expand...
Not so sure about many of us loving the Heupel hire. If Recall properly many said:

Who's he?
His first season was with Foster's recruits.
Post Scott Foster, UCF win totals decline each season.
Not a splash hire.
Here we go again, another junior league coach.
Sigh! Nobody else wants the job.

That the veins of thought I remember from his hire.
Ok, Woodsman, what about you?
Well, my response was disappointment. Smelled like another
Butch Jones to me. But then, I Joe Fraziered myself, and told me,
you stand by whoever the UT hires. Even when you don't think
they know what they're doing. So i swallowed hard, and became
a Heup man. I do believe many of us pretty much did the same.
 
#48
#48
pimo1 said:
There are so many obvious holes in this story that make no sense to anyone that knows football.

For instance
Lie: Tennessee is the SEC’s version of Nebraska, a former college football power that continues to circulate through coaching failures without addressing the true north reason.....Players

Fact check: Nebraska always had and always will have recruiting issues. They depended on their walkon program to rise to prominence. Developing a large amount of their talent in-house and recruiting a lot of under the radar guys that fit their system. once they moved away from the triple option they were toast. Their recrtuing classes are mostly 3 stars with a few 4's and a rare 5 sprinkled in.

Lie: The Vols’ recruiting footprint is the state of Tennessee — and fighting an uphill battle in the South. Or potentially using an illegal move (see: Pruitt firing).

Fact Check: UT has always recruited Nationwide and has a very strong recruiting base across the south. Until post Fulmer years UT didn't recruit hard in TN. In state recruiting took off right around the time the level of football instate jumped. Especially middle TN and West TN.

Gaslight alert: Because there’s only one Dabo. Just like there’s one Saban and one Urban Meyer and after that, there’s a deep, deep chasm to the rest of college football coaching fiefdom.

Truth: Before those guys were those guys, they weren't. Josh Heupel exists.. he's real there's also only one of him. There is also Kirby Smart. Just saying there are always great young coaches stepping up to replace the old guard. You just gotta be ready for them when they come around.

Lie: Want to know who can take the current Tennessee situation – with its inherent geographical footprint recruiting issues and lack of elite high school players in the state of Tennessee – and win big?

Fact Check: As mentioned before the lack of high school talent was true in the 80's through the 90's and early 2000's its no longer true. As far as geographical footprint issues that's NEVER been an issue. Knoxville is one of the best situated SEC cities as far as that. As far as the SEC and College football in general goes its one of the few colleges in a major city. Most big colleges are in podunk towns or at best cities you wouldn't know of unless you knew of that college. Most college towns you wouldn't want to visit unless there is a game. I used to also believe the myth that UT had a hard time recruiting but history has shown that's false.. when is the last year UT didn't have a top 25 recruiting class? Do you know how few teams can claim that? I did some research because my memory cant be trusted....I was able to find an article from 2021 that looked at the last 20 years of rivals. UT's average recruiting class at that time was 13.4 over 20 years ranked 11th.. That period of time is the whole desert. So where is the recruiting problem?


Why do people just suck up this garbage without using their brains and doing a bit of research on the statements people make? There are many other hilariously wrong statements (factually) in that article that I could go into but this board has a short attention span and I've already probably made a few heads explode.
Click to expand...
Nebraska was Nebraska because of steroids. That is it. Easy to coach LOS players when they are strong enough to throw cars.
Bo Pelini built something there 10 years ago, and they thought they could do better than Bo. Bo was abrasive and probably not a great guy, but he won 67 games in 7 seasons. Can you imagine what they would throw at a HC for that record?
 
#49
#49
WoodsmanVol said:
Not so sure about many of us loving the Heupel hire. If Recall properly many said:

Who's he?
His first season was with Foster's recruits.
Post Scott Foster, UCF win totals decline each season.
Not a splash hire.
Here we go again, another junior league coach.
Sigh! Nobody else wants the job.

That the veins of thought I remember from his hire.
Ok, Woodsman, what about you?
Well, my response was disappointment. Smelled like another
Butch Jones to me. But then, I Joe Fraziered myself, and told me,
you stand by whoever the UT hires. Even when you don't think
they know what they're doing. So i swallowed hard, and became
a Heup man. I do believe many of us pretty much did the same.
Click to expand...
I was not thrilled with the Heupel hire, but I liked his statements and loved his coaching style and the way his staff seemed like they were 100% bought in. I watched a lot of youtube analyzing Heupel's offense and loved what I saw. The power run and WRs creating mismatches all over the field.
He proved to be a gifted recruiter. That first signing class was suss, but a lot of that was our image problem at that moment.
 
#50
#50
SpookyAction said:
I was not thrilled with the Heupel hire, but I liked his statements and loved his coaching style and the way his staff seemed like they were 100% bought in. I watched a lot of youtube analyzing Heupel's offense and loved what I saw. The power run and WRs creating mismatches all over the field.
He proved to be a gifted recruiter. That first signing class was suss, but a lot of that was our image problem at that moment.
Click to expand...
Same here. BUT, I was talking about when his hiring was announced. I recall Dan had sought others for the job, got turned down, and settled, yes, setlled for Josh. At that point is where I think many of us kind had an, "Oh no!" moment. We didn't realize how lucky we were.

One thing you said, that greatly softened my disappointment, was your comment about his coaching style. He met the players to listen to what they had to say, what they thought the program needed. When I read that, you better believe I perked up big time.
 
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