Thank goodness for Fox News! Obama: America a Superpower 'Whether We Like It or Not'

#152
#152
DC Vol said:
Well, realistically, they don't. Ahmadinejad completely hijacked the election that he didn't even win by popular vote. The Iranians, as a people, are not as theocratic as the government that represents them is. That does not mean that Iran, as a state, does not represent a security risk.

The people of Iraq, for the most part, respect the US and appreciate our actions but a time has come for them to govern themselves. The conflict they're going through would have likely erupted after Saddam died. It was seen as almost an inevitability. They hated Hussein but were so fearful of him that no one did anything against him.

Freeing the Iraqi people is not why the US said it was going into Iraq. Should we support a revolution that is the wish of a people that want to overthrow a tyrannical regime? Maybe. Should we create a revolution? Never.
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But you would agree that neither the people of Iran, or Iraq had/have control of their country, its military, its money...?

In that case, unless they willfully backed their administrations actions toward the US, Israel, UK... we have no beef with them.

In both situations I think we both agree that the majority did/does not like its leadership, and its intentions. And what the US did/(and prolly will have to do) was/will be embraced by the majority.
 
#154
#154
BeecherVol said:
But you would agree that neither the people of Iran, or Iraq had/have control of their country, its military, its money...?
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Not at all. The majority of Americans were against Healthcare reform, and it passed anyway. We're far more informed of our government's actions (due to them being more accountable for their actions as well as a far more advanced information structure) than most Iraqis and Iranians are. How much do you know about the 2009 Iranian election?

BeecherVol said:
In both situations I think we both agree that the majority did/does not like its leadership, and its intentions. And what the US did/(and prolly will have to do) was/will be embraced by the majority.
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True, but the course of action that we took in Iraq was completely wrong, regardless of outcome. The "we'll bomb you into freedom" outlook on the world has got to go. I didn't enlist in the Marines to free some Iraqi that didn't decide first that he wanted to be free.

Simply put: You can't help those that first don't want it. If they ask for US Aid or intervention, then and only then, should the US consider it. It is not our global duty to decide what is best for the world but I do think it is a burden of power that the US should accept to try to promote democracy and free economies to those that wish and strive for it. That's all the difference between "unprovoked invasion" and "military intervention".
 
#155
#155
DC Vol said:
I'm right there with you. I'm just a little tired of people completely over-reacting and taking what he says and does out of context in order to support their own dislikes of him.

It's no better than leftists criticizing Bush's funny accent and his dyslexia. It serves no purpose in rationally debating his faults as a President and only works against any valid points to be made.
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DC Vol said:
Your grandmother was a wise woman.
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For the sake of our country, I hope Obama does the right thing(s). I nor you have nothin to gain by his failure. I totally disagree with his economic/social polices to this point, and hope everything turns around. (again for the sake of our country's future)

G. Bush made mistakes, just like all the rest. All we can go off of is their intentions.

Yes, she is very wise. Comes with age I guess. She keeps everything simple.
 
#156
#156
BeecherVol said:
For the sake of our country, I hope Obama does the right thing(s). I nor you have nothin to gain by his failure. I totally disagree with his economic/social polices to this point, and hope everything turns around. (again for the sake of our country's future)
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So do I, but I take every one of his actions separately. Same as I did with Bush. His statement about the US (at times intrusive) foreign policy was spot on. I agree with his statement 100% even though I do not support most of the social programs he's supporting at the expense of cutting scientific programs.
 
#158
#158
DC Vol said:
Not at all. The majority of Americans were against Healthcare reform, and it passed anyway. We're far more informed of our government's actions (due to them being more accountable for their actions as well as a far more advanced information structure) than most Iraqis and Iranians are. How much do you know about the 2009 Iranian election?



True, but the course of action that we took in Iraq was completely wrong, regardless of outcome. The "we'll bomb you into freedom" outlook on the world has got to go. I didn't enlist in the Marines to free some Iraqi that didn't decide first that he wanted to be free.

Simply put: You can't help those that first don't want it. If they ask for US Aid or intervention, then and only then, should the US consider it. It is not our global duty to decide what is best for the world but I do think it is a burden of power that the US should accept to try to promote democracy and free economies to those that wish and strive for it. That's all the difference between "unprovoked invasion" and "military intervention".
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1. As far as the Iranian elections go. Not much. Other than the fact, that if the people voted against the regime, and its still in power, then they are slaves more or less.

2. I some what agree with your Iraq statements. Bush claimed it was about WMD's, at the time he wasn't the only one claiming it, but thats history I guess.

All in all. Bush along with many other US leaders were wrong about several things, but the intentions were never to take Iraq as US soil. Which would completely change my opinion.

I agree that if they do not want to hold their own, its time to go.

Thank you for your service bro.:hi:
My family appreciates it.
 
#162
#162
DC Vol said:
Not at all. The majority of Americans were against Healthcare reform, and it passed anyway. We're far more informed of our government's actions (due to them being more accountable for their actions as well as a far more advanced information structure) than most Iraqis and Iranians are. How much do you know about the 2009 Iranian election?



True, but the course of action that we took in Iraq was completely wrong, regardless of outcome. The "we'll bomb you into freedom" outlook on the world has got to go. I didn't enlist in the Marines to free some Iraqi that didn't decide first that he wanted to be free.

Simply put: You can't help those that first don't want it. If they ask for US Aid or intervention, then and only then, should the US consider it. It is not our global duty to decide what is best for the world but I do think it is a burden of power that the US should accept to try to promote democracy and free economies to those that wish and strive for it. That's all the difference between "unprovoked invasion" and "military intervention".
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Not to go off-subject, and I agree with your foreign-policy/geopolitical beliefs, but isn't that hypocritical? Regardless of my political viewpoints I would perform my job. It shouldn't come to whining or complaining. Don't understand me incorrectly, I respect our armed forces, but when you enlist in the armed forces you are obligated to your job, regardless of your opinion of the Pres.
 
#163
#163
Not speaking for him, but unless Im mistaken he said nothing about performing his duty as a soldier.

Just expressed his opinion.
 
#165
#165
bam15 said:
Not to go off-subject, and I agree with your foreign-policy/geopolitical beliefs, but isn't that hypocritical? Regardless of my political viewpoints I would perform my job. It shouldn't come to whining or complaining. Don't understand me incorrectly, I respect our armed forces, but when you enlist in the armed forces you are obligated to your job, regardless of your opinion of the Pres.
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context is a wonderful thing....chill out
 
#169
#169
T-TownVol said:
apples....oranges
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Regardless of the intentions in his post, albeit it most likely wasn't my interpretation, I don't like the fact of military and politics being interrelated. I know it's inevitable, but still, something I'm not fond for.

Quite simply, political leaders shouldn't be making military decisions and vice versa.
 
#170
#170
bam15 said:
No I understand, but that's a fine line.

The recent nut who refuses to perform his job because of a birth certificate is evidence.
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Not sure its that drastic bam.

He just stated his opinion on that matter, didn't say he refused to follow orders.

I will shut up now DC.:)
 
#171
#171
BeecherVol said:
1. As far as the Iranian elections go. Not much. Other than the fact, that if the people voted against the regime, and its still in power, then they are slaves more or less.
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Well, that's not entirely true. Basically, the people voted a less hard-lined and theocratic ruler into office and the ayatollahs took that as an obvious sign their reign was coming to an end. They interjected and warped the numbers.

The Iranian people protested heavily. They coordinated through Twitter, FaceBook and other social sites that were summarily blocked by the Iranian government. The US Government and people (me included) through the world hosted servers that allowed passthrough traffic to circumvent government enforced IP traffic filters. Regardless, after several days and possibly hundreds of people killed and others arrested/kidnapped/executed the protests died down.

That's the background on that. They aren't mindless slaves, but they're not quite ready to revolt and suffer immensely if there is a peaceful solution. We'll see how that turns out, but the sentiment of Iran as a whole is certainly promising. A large portion of the protesters are "westernized" youth that in the coming years will be much more pro-US/Europe than their fore bearers mostly due to the availability of information not directly fed to them through a very oppressive and theocratic society.
 
#173
#173
bam15 said:
Not to go off-subject, and I agree with your foreign-policy/geopolitical beliefs, but isn't that hypocritical? Regardless of my political viewpoints I would perform my job. It shouldn't come to whining or complaining. Don't understand me incorrectly, I respect our armed forces, but when you enlist in the armed forces you are obligated to your job, regardless of your opinion of the Pres.
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I enlisted (January 2003) before the onset of the Iraq War in March of that year. I ended up going to basic long afterwards (late October) as my MOS had a very limited number of ship dates.

I honored my enlistment and those that I served with even though I (and more than would openly admit) did not agree with the war in Iraq. At that point, most saw it as completely irreversible and did what they could in service, like me, to those they served with and for the Iraqi people who had this thrust upon them.

I am very well aware of the terms of my enlistment and that's why I didn't voice any opinions, publicly, of the Administration while I was in uniform.
 
#174
#174
DC Vol said:
Well, that's not entirely true. Basically, the people voted a less hard-lined and theocratic ruler into office and the ayatollahs took that as an obvious sign their reign was coming to an end. They interjected and warped the numbers.

The Iranian people protested heavily. They coordinated through Twitter, FaceBook and other social sites that were summarily blocked by the Iranian government. The US Government and people (me included) through the world hosted servers that allowed passthrough traffic to circumvent government enforced IP traffic filters. Regardless, after several days and possibly hundreds of people killed and others arrested/kidnapped/executed the protests died down.

That's the background on that. They aren't mindless slaves, but they're not quite ready to revolt and suffer immensely if there is a peaceful solution. We'll see how that turns out, but the sentiment of Iran as a whole is certainly promising. A large portion of the protesters are "westernized" youth that in the coming years will be much more pro-US/Europe than their fore bearers mostly due to the availability of information not directly fed to them through a very oppressive and theocratic society.
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Basically tho, in your post. The people voted one way, and the election was not held by their vote. Thus leaving the people enslaved to an administration they did not want.
 
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