That's racist!

#10,501
#10,501
utvols88 said:
Started my collegiate career in criminal justice, know several criminal defense lawyers in Florida and have discussed it with them. They pointed out the holes in the prosecution's case based on the public evidence and without having a chance at the evidence not yet turned over.

Is that what you guessed?
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That the answer was no? Yes, that's what I guessed. "As long as it's trained, boom, you're good to go" doesn't seem like something an informed lawyer would say, given that you can find holes in that logic with a few seconds of thought
 
#10,505
#10,505
luthervol said:
True.
They are all on a continuum; it's just that FOX and Breitbart are further from the center than CNN and MSNBC.
But this debate has already been held multiple times.
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You've expressed your opinion many, many times. That doesn't make your opinion fact.
 
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#10,506
#10,506
FLVOL_79 said:
I fully embrace my White privilege and life success through smart and hard work and if it devastates others, so be it. Welcome to Western culture sh!@bags.
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Had my company required attending some BS like that..... I’d have made the most of it. I’d troll everyone associated with the classes and made a mockery out of it.
 
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#10,507
#10,507
utvols88 said:
The other three officers wont be convicted if even tried. Chauvin may not get convicted either. With the full video, it might be best to attempt a plea deal before it comes out in trial. All it takes for an acquittal is confirmation that knee to neck is trained. Nothing else is up in the air right now.
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In today’s environment you never know. I don’t see any way Chauvin gets out unscathed. The city knows they’ll have riots from hell if he’s acquitted. They’d be wise to push the trial date out as far as possible IMO
 
#10,508
#10,508
utvols88 said:
Are you aware of the threshold to convict in criminal court?
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Even if it's a trained procedure, I think there's a legit question of when does reasonable force become excessive force? Almost nine minutes on the ground, pleading for help and screaming he couldn't breathe, I think the prosecution has a good case that a boundary was crossed. Will the training argument support holding someone in that posture for such a long period of time while they show signs of distress? It's hard for me to imagine it will. But I'm not on that jury, so who knows?
 
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#10,509
#10,509
Weezer said:
Even if it's a trained procedure, I think there's a legit question of when does reasonable force become excessive force? Almost nine minutes on the ground, pleading for help and screaming he couldn't breathe, I think the prosecution has a good case that a boundary was crossed. Will the training argument support holding someone in that posture for such a long period of time while they show signs of distress? It's hard for me to imagine it will. But I'm not on that jury, so who knows?
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They also have procedures regarding treatment and care of persons in custody. Lawyers are going to have fun making money parsing both of those.
 
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#10,511
#10,511
Weezer said:
Even if it's a trained procedure, I think there's a legit question of when does reasonable force become excessive force? Almost nine minutes on the ground, pleading for help and screaming he couldn't breathe, I think the prosecution has a good case that a boundary was crossed. Will the training argument support holding someone in that posture for such a long period of time while they show signs of distress? It's hard for me to imagine it will. But I'm not on that jury, so who knows?
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Signs of distress occurred while not under distress before he was on the ground, which creates doubt. It's reasonable to say, he was talking so it's possible he could breathe from the knee placement and he was crying wolf based on the prior resistance.

For what it's worth, I dont think the knee on the neck should be trained. I've always known it to be on the upper back at worst. I also agree that knee on the upper back shouldnt be used long term.

I think the point is that there are holes and it's not easy for prosecutors as we originally thought. We should all reject the premise of having a sacrificial conviction for the sake of potential riots though.

All of this is based on public information/evidence so far. Quick question.. was the training on knee to neck document confirmed or is that up in the air still?
 
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#10,512
#10,512
Weezer said:
Is there an autopsy report to support any of this? I think it's clear police used excessive force and that it either caused or significantly contributed to his death. George Floyd was not an innocent, and he contributed to his situation by resisting arrest, but in no way does that justify the force that was used that led to his death. He should not have died, and the officers involved should answer for that.
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If, big if, the knee on the neck didn’t kill him....I still find the police guilty in this situation. The officer continued to kneel on his neck for nearly 3 minutes after Floyd lost conciseness.
That was valuable time where medical assistance might have made a difference in life or death.
The police are guilty of some form of manslaughter at best but likely something much worse.
 
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#10,514
#10,514
utvols88 said:
Signs of distress occurred while not under distress before he was on the ground, which creates doubt. It's reasonable to say, he was talking so it's possible he could breathe from the knee placement and he was crying wolf based on the prior resistance.

For what it's worth, I dont think the knee on the neck should be trained. I've always known it to be on the upper back at worst. I also agree that knee on the upper back shouldnt be used long term.

I think the point is that there are holes and it's not easy for prosecutors as we originally thought. We should all reject the premise of having a sacrificial conviction for the sake of potential riots though.

All of this is based on public information/evidence so far. Quick question.. was the training on knee to neck document confirmed or is that up in the air still?
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I have no idea. I thought you were insinuating the knee to the neck thing was trained and that's why the officer would get off? Like I said, I'm not on the jury, and that's a good thing because I've obviously formed an opinion, but I think a line was crossed from reasonable to excessive force and at the very least contributed to Floyd's death.
 
#10,515
#10,515
Weezer said:
I have no idea. I thought you were insinuating the knee to the neck thing was trained and that's why the officer would get off? Like I said, I'm not on the jury, and that's a good thing because I've obviously formed an opinion, but I think a line was crossed from reasonable to excessive force and at the very least contributed to Floyd's death.
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Documents have surfaced that it was in Minneapolis training. But in todays world I'm skeptical on everything so it could have been fake news.

I've always known it to be knee to upper back.
 
#10,516
#10,516
Orangeslice13 said:
If, big if, the knee on the neck didn’t kill him....I still find the police guilty in this situation. The officer continued to kneel on his neck for nearly 3 minutes after Floyd lost conciseness.
That was valuable time where medical assistance might have made a difference in life or death.
The police are guilty of some form of manslaughter at best but likely something much worse.
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I cant see anything worse than manslaughter and the other three officers didnt do anything criminal.
 
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#10,517
#10,517
utvols88 said:
I cant see anything worse than manslaughter and the other three officers didnt do anything criminal.
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Depends on how much truth there is to the claims they knew each other before the incident and had conflict.
 
#10,518
#10,518
Weezer said:
Depends on how much truth there is to the claims they knew each other before the incident and had conflict.
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Video didnt show any animosity but rather trying to calm him down, offer to open windows and put on the ac, etc.

GF repeatedly promised to comply and then didn't. Then went to the ground, I believe by his own request.

Its hard to paint the picture that he intended to murder GF with all that as a visual precursor to his passing. I think the city is 100% liable on the civil front at least.
 
#10,519
#10,519
NashVol11 said:
LOL that's a new excuse. "You see, I COULD prove you wrong, I promise, but uh...you wouldn't get it. That's definitely the reason why I have no argument."
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I can easily prove you wrong. That being said, it serves no point here. See my brick wall reference..

And to be honest, I feel slightly bad picking on intellectually handicapped people.
 
#10,522
#10,522
utvols88 said:
I cant see anything worse than manslaughter and the other three officers didnt do anything criminal.
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The other 3 were rookies. The guy taking a knee (I refuse to use his name) was their training officer. It’s hard to pass judgment on guys being new and not confronting the guy training them.
 
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#10,525
#10,525
TennVols12 said:
And a conservative would say that CNN and MSNBC are further from the center.
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Of course they would. That's why one should seek out the most non-biased studies available and draw an informed conclusion, but

ain't nobody got time for that.................nor the desire.
 
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