That's racist!

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

You’re attempting to make a claim. It shouldn’t require any of us to read a book you’ve not read. Rather you should show us in the book what he says and where he says it.

I’m also not finding any legit source making the claim you are that Silculus described the Egyptians (whose own drawings do not depict themselves as black) as black.

Herodotus, The Histories, Book 2, chapter 104

www.perseus.tufts.edu

Here's what Herodutus had to say on the appearance of the Ancient Egyptians:

For it is plain to see that the Colchians are Egyptians; and what I say, I myself noted before I heard it from others. When it occurred to me, I inquired of both peoples; and the Colchians remembered the Egyptians better than the Egyptians remembered the Colchians; [2] the Egyptians said that they considered the Colchians part of Sesostris' army. I myself guessed it, partly because they are dark-skinned and woolly-haired; though that indeed counts for nothing, since other peoples are, too; but my better proof was that the Colchians and Egyptians and Ethiopians are the only nations that have from the first practised circumcision.

https://www.philipharland.com/Blog/2022/08/ethiopians-diodoros-first-century-bce/

Here's Diodorus talking about how the Egyptians are descendants of the Nubians (aka Ethiopians):

They say also that the Egyptians are colonists sent out by the Ethiopians, Osiris having been the leader of the colony. (2) For they maintain that, generally speaking, what is now Egypt was not land but sea when in the beginning the universe was being formed.

Here's Diodorus talking about how hieroglyphics are of Nubian (aka Ethiopian) origin:

We must now speak about the Ethiopian writing which is called hieroglyphic among the Egyptians, in order that we may omit nothing in our discussion of their ancient practices. Now it is found that the forms of their letters take the shape of animals of every kind, and of the members of the human body, and of implements and especially carpenters’ tools. For their writing does not express the intended concept by means of syllables joined one to another, but by means of the significance of the objects which have been copied and by its figurative meaning which has been impressed upon the memory by practice.

I won't insult you for your ignorance on this topic because European men from the 1800s have done a good job hiding this information but the idea that the Ancient Egyptians were black was a well accepted concept before the rise of white supremacy. Europeans couldn't claim to be superior to Africans if their own ancestors said black people taught them civilization. So as a result Ancient Egypt had to become non-black.

Google the "Hamitic Hypothesis". It'll show you how European academics in the 1800s took Ancient Egypt and made it non-black. Essentially they said that black skin and kinky hair don't make someone black. So they transformed the Ancient Egyptians as well as the peoples of modern day East Africa (like the Tutsi, Somalis, Ethiopians, and even the Masaai) into dark skin Caucasians. In fact to this day if you look up old books on racial classification you'll see East Africans being grouped with the Caucasian race. It's all part of the legacy of trying to explain away why the Ancient Greeks and Romans said the Ancient Egyptians were black.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

Can you provide a source?

https://www.cell.com/fulltext/S0960-9822(02)01336-2

Conclusions: Our data indicate that the Andamanese have closer affinities to Asian than to African populations and suggest that they are the descendants of the early Palaeolithic colonizers of Southeast Asia.

I typically don't say things that are not supported by concrete evidence.

 

[Vol8188]

https://www.cell.com/fulltext/S0960-9822(02)01336-2

I typically don't say things that are not supported by concrete evidence.

You realize your own source doesn’t believe they look like that due to their African origins but rather coevolution due to a similar environment of people from Asia right?

 

[Vol8188]

Herodotus, The Histories, Book 2, chapter 104

www.perseus.tufts.edu

Here's what Herodutus had to say on the appearance of the Ancient Egyptians:

https://www.philipharland.com/Blog/2022/08/ethiopians-diodoros-first-century-bce/

Here's Diodorus talking about how the Egyptians are descendants of the Nubians (aka Ethiopians):




Here's Diodorus talking about how hieroglyphics are of Nubian (aka Ethiopian) origin:



I won't insult you for your ignorance on this topic because European men from the 1800s have done a good job hiding this information but the idea that the Ancient Egyptians were black was a well accepted concept before the rise of white supremacy. Europeans couldn't claim to be superior to Africans if their own ancestors said black people taught them civilization. So as a result Ancient Egypt had to become non-black.

Google the "Hamitic Hypothesis". It'll show you how European academics in the 1800s took Ancient Egypt and made it non-black. Essentially they said that black skin and kinky hair don't make someone black. So they transformed the Ancient Egyptians as well as the peoples of modern day East Africa (like the Tutsi, Somalis, Ethiopians, and even the Masaai) into dark skin Caucasians. In fact to this day if you look up old books on racial classification you'll see East Africans being grouped with the Caucasian race. It's all part of the legacy of trying to explain away why the Ancient Greeks and Romans said the Ancient Egyptians were black.

Everything you just said is straight nonsense.

1.



2. Your second source clearly states they are providing the Ethiopian perspective that all of humanity came from Ethiopian. Not his perspective on the Egyptians, nor the Egyptian perspective. Thus why he says "they say the Egyptians are colonists sent out by the Ethiopians".

"As with his account on Egyptians, Diodoros of Sicily (or: Diodorus Siculus) begins his main discussion of ostensible Ethiopian perspectives with the observation that these people claimed to be the original inhabitants from which all of humanity descended (via colonization)"



3. You falsely attempt to claim the author is saying hieroglyphs originated in Ethiopian. At no point does the author say that. He states that the Egyptian's refer to that style of writing as hieroglyph. Not that hieroglyphs originated in Ethiopian. If I said:

"We must now speak about the American writing which is called the alphabet by the Phoenicians"-would you proclaim "American's invented the alphabet!"

 

[W.TN.Orange Blood]

 

[Franklin Pierce]

Gwinn: Deion Sanders Needs to Make His Success About Religion, Not Race​

A sense of euphoria and amazement dominated the field in Fort Worth, Texas, on Saturday after Deion Sanders and his completely remade roster of Colorado Buffaloes pulled off an incredible win on the home turf of a team that made it to the national championship game last year.

However, in the post-game press conference, Sanders’ tone took a decidedly disunifying turn as he talked about how his “75% African American” roster would be seen as “threatening,” and how “they” don’t like that. He also took a few shots at the media for good measure.

When you see a confident black man, sitting up there talking his talk, walking his walk, coaching 75% African Americans in the locker room, that’s kind of threatening. Oh, they don’t like that. Guess what? We gonna consistently do what we do, because I’m here and ain’t going nowhere. And I’m about to get comfortable in a minute.

Gwinn: Deion Sanders Should Make His Success About Religion, Not Race

A sense of euphoria and amazement dominated the field in Fort Worth, Texas, on Saturday after Deion Sanders and his completely remade roster of Colorado Buffaloes pulled off an incredible win on the home turf of a team that made it to the national championship game last year.

www.breitbart.com

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

You realize your own source doesn’t believe they look like that due to their African origins but rather coevolution due to a similar environment of people from Asia right?

I don't understand where you're going with this point at all. Everyone on the planet originated from Africa. That's where the human family comes from. Our differences when it comes to phenotype are the result of environmental adaptations. I don't when I have ever said anything contrary to that obvious scientific fact.

Looks to me like you're just reaching after seeing that my arguments have solid scientific backing.

 

[Vol8188]

I don't understand where you're going with this point at all. Everyone on the planet originated from Africa. That's where the human family comes from. Our differences when it comes to phenotype are the result of environmental adaptations. I don't when I have ever said anything contrary to that obvious scientific fact.

Looks to me like you're just reaching after seeing that my arguments have solid scientific backing.

Not reaching, but possibly misunderstanding what you’re saying. If your point is simply “they originated in Africa”….okay? But rather it seems you’re saying they should be considered black instead of Asian.

It also seems you’re strangely attempting to associate all of Africa as “black”. It would be like pretending the people of Russia and Scotland are homogenous with each other.

The oldest human remains were found in the Mediterranean (Morocco specifically). Pretending the people of the Mediterranean or the ancient Egyptians are “black” is disingenuous.

So you’re strangely attempting to lump all of Africa (and a random group of Asian islanders) into your definition of “black”. It’s strange to say the least.

I’m assuming you believe the crazy conspiracy theory that native Americans were actually black people also?

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

Everything you just said is straight nonsense.

1.
View attachment 575615


2. Your second source clearly states they are providing the Ethiopian perspective that all of humanity came from Ethiopian. Not his perspective on the Egyptians, nor the Egyptian perspective. Thus why he says "they say the Egyptians are colonists sent out by the Ethiopians".

"As with his account on Egyptians, Diodoros of Sicily (or: Diodorus Siculus) begins his main discussion of ostensible Ethiopian perspectives with the observation that these people claimed to be the original inhabitants from which all of humanity descended (via colonization)"

View attachment 575619

3. You falsely attempt to claim the author is saying hieroglyphs originated in Ethiopian. At no point does the author say that. He states that the Egyptian's refer to that style of writing as hieroglyph. Not that hieroglyphs originated in Ethiopian. If I said:

"We must now speak about the American writing which is called the alphabet by the Phoenicians"-would you proclaim "American's invented the alphabet!"

1. So because modern white scholars choose to reject the accounts of Ancient Greek historians that means its false? You need to do better than simply citing a Wikipedia article saying that. What evidence do you have to counter the first hand accounts of respected Ancient sources?

By the way Herodutus wasn't alone in saying the Ancient Egyptians were black. Aristotle said the same. See here: https://www.philipharland.com/Blog/...sical-features-physiognomy-third-century-bce/

[812] . . . Too black a hue marks the coward, as witnessed with Egyptians and Ethiopians, and so does too white a complexion, as you may see from women. So the hue that makes for courage must be intermediate between these extremes. A tawny colour indicates a bold spirit, as in lions: but too ruddy a hue marks a rogue, as in the case of the fox. . . [omitted material].

So to Aristotle like Herodutus the Ancient Egyptians were black like the Ethiopians (aka Nubians). Now tell me how some modern Europeans with racial motivations know better than the Ancient Greeks who occupied Ancient Egypt for hundreds of years.

2. I provided the account from the Nubians because it showed how the people of the Ancient World saw Ancient Egypt in relation to the rest of Africa. To the Nubians the Egyptians were their descendants.

If the Egyptians were a different race than their black neighbors to the south then why would a respected Ancient Greek historian document the account? Obviously the theory that Ancient Egypt originated from Nubia must have been reasonable for the Ancient Greeks to take such a claim seriously. If the Egyptians were a different race than the Nubians then such a claim would have been countered by Diodorus.

3. Read the entire statement. I cut it off because it was too long. Here's more context: LacusCurtius • Diodorus Siculus — Book III Chapters 1‑14

And the larger part of the customs of the Egyptians are, they hold, Ethiopian, the colonists still preserving their ancient manners. For instance, the belief that their kings are gods, the very special attention which they pay to their burials, and many other matters of a similar nature are Ethiopian practices, while the shapes of their statues and the forms of their letters are Ethiopian; for of the two kinds of writing which the Egyptians have, that which is known as "popular" (demotic) is learned by everyone, while that which is called "sacred" is understood only by the priests of the Egyptians, who learn it from their fathers as one of the things which are not divulged, but among the Ethiopians everyone uses these forms of letters......

Diodorus is clearly talking about the hieroglyphic script of Ancient Egypt. In this statement he says that in Nubia, everyone knows how to read hieroglyphics as its their standard writing system. However, in Egypt only the priests can read it cause it's considered a holy script. By the way if you study hieroglyphics you'll notice most of the symbols are of animals that lived far south of Egypt. Also the hieroglyph for face shows a phenotype that isn't common in Ancient Egypt but was more in common in Ancient Nubia.

Watch this video:



It does a good job breaking down the controversy regarding how hieroglyphics might actually be of Nubian origin rather than being native to the Ancient Egyptians.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

Not reaching, but possibly misunderstanding what you’re saying. If your point is simply “they originated in Africa”….okay? But rather it seems you’re saying they should be considered black instead of Asian.

It also seems you’re strangely attempting to associate all of Africa as “black”. It would be like pretending the people of Russia and Scotland are homogenous with each other.

The oldest human remains were found in the Mediterranean (Morocco specifically). Pretending the people of the Mediterranean or the ancient Egyptians are “black” is disingenuous.

So you’re strangely attempting to lump all of Africa (and a random group of Asian islanders) into your definition of “black”. It’s strange to say the least.

I’m assuming you believe the crazy conspiracy theory that native Americans were actually black people also?

I've never said being African and being black are synonymous. Africa is a continent. While black is a phenotype. My argument is you can be black and non-African as well as African and non-black. I cited the people of the Andaman Islands to show that you can't use DNA testing to try and determine whose black and who isn't. The Andaman Islanders are clearly black given their phenotype. But genetically they are as far from being Africans as anyone else on the Asian continent. Thus proving that DNA and race aren't synonymous. DNA measures our genotype while race is a measure of our phenotype. And sometimes both those things don't coincide. You can have people in the Andaman Islanders who look very similar to black Africans in terms of phenotype but be genetically more like the rest of the Asian continent.

 

[Vol8188]

I've never said being African and being black are synonymous. Africa is a continent. While black is a phenotype. My argument is you can be black and non-African as well as African and non-black. I cited the people of the Andaman Islands to show that you can't use DNA testing to try and determine whose black and who isn't. The Andaman Islanders are clearly black given their phenotype. But genetically they are as far from being Africans as anyone else on the Asian continent. Thus proving that DNA and race aren't synonymous. DNA measures our genotype while race is a measure of our phenotype. And sometimes both those things don't coincide. You can have people in the Andaman Islanders who look very similar to black Africans in terms of phenotype but be genetically more like the rest of the Asian continent.

Yet you’ve attempted to now proclaim both Morocco and Egypt as “black”?

So what part of Africa do you not consider to be historically black?

And yes, dna evidence (such as the evidence that Egyptians most likely looked middle eastern like the Egyptians of today) is obviously our best evidence.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

Yet you’ve attempted to now proclaim both Morocco and Egypt as “black”?

So what part of Africa do you not consider to be historically black?

And yes, dna evidence (such as the evidence that Egyptians most likely looked middle eastern like the Egyptians of today) is obviously our best evidence.

I don't know where you're getting Morocco from. I've said nothing about that place. The modern country of Morocco is mixed. There are some black Berber tribes native to that region but the majority of the population today is non-black. How modern day North Africa became non-black is another discussion. My argument in this thread has only been limited to Ancient Egypt and the phenotype of their population. The modern state of Egypt is of no interest to me.

That's why you'll notice all my posts show links to accounts from Ancient Greek historians. I'm talking only about the population of Ancient Egypt not of modern day Egypt. And obviously given how the Ancient Greeks described the Ancient Egyptians that population clearly had different phenotype than the modern population of Egypt.

 

[KB5252]

Not reaching, but possibly misunderstanding what you’re saying. If your point is simply “they originated in Africa”….okay? But rather it seems you’re saying they should be considered black instead of Asian.

It also seems you’re strangely attempting to associate all of Africa as “black”. It would be like pretending the people of Russia and Scotland are homogenous with each other.

The oldest human remains were found in the Mediterranean (Morocco specifically). Pretending the people of the Mediterranean or the ancient Egyptians are “black” is disingenuous.

So you’re strangely attempting to lump all of Africa (and a random group of Asian islanders) into your definition of “black”. It’s strange to say the least.

I’m assuming you believe the crazy conspiracy theory that native Americans were actually black people also?

He gets this from those stupid agenda driven Facebook pages. I started to get them on my feed soon after debating him previously. Some of the same things you're pointing out were being discussed there and dismissed because it didn't fit the narrow agenda they were pushing. Honestly I'd save my breath if I were you.

 

[Vol8188]

1. So because modern white scholars choose to reject the accounts of Ancient Greek historians that means its false? You need to do better than simply citing a Wikipedia article saying that. What evidence do you have to counter the first hand accounts of respected Ancient sources?

By the way Herodutus wasn't alone in saying the Ancient Egyptians were black. Aristotle said the same. See here: https://www.philipharland.com/Blog/...sical-features-physiognomy-third-century-bce/



So to Aristotle like Herodutus the Ancient Egyptians were black like the Ethiopians (aka Nubians). Now tell me how some modern Europeans with racial motivations know better than the Ancient Greeks who occupied Ancient Egypt for hundreds of years.

2. I provided the account from the Nubians because it showed how the people of the Ancient World saw Ancient Egypt in relation to the rest of Africa. To the Nubians the Egyptians were their descendants.

If the Egyptians were a different race than their black neighbors to the south then why would a respected Ancient Greek historian document the account? Obviously the theory that Ancient Egypt originated from Nubia must have been reasonable for the Ancient Greeks to take such a claim seriously. If the Egyptians were a different race than the Nubians then such a claim would have been countered by Diodorus.

3. Read the entire statement. I cut it off because it was too long. Here's more context: LacusCurtius • Diodorus Siculus — Book III Chapters 1‑14



Diodorus is clearly talking about the hieroglyphic script of Ancient Egypt. In this statement he says that in Nubia, everyone knows how to read hieroglyphics as its their standard writing system. However, in Egypt only the priests can read it cause it's considered a holy script. By the way if you study hieroglyphics you'll notice most of the symbols are of animals that lived far south of Egypt. Also the hieroglyph for face shows a phenotype that isn't common in Ancient Egypt but was more in common in Ancient Nubia.

Watch this video:



It does a good job breaking down the controversy regarding how hieroglyphics might actually be of Nubian origin rather than being native to the Ancient Egyptians.

Lol your racial conspiracy YouTube channel at the end “HomeTeam History!” was the best part of this post.

But let’s start at the top.

1. Nearly all scholars reject that, not just the white ones. The most obvious evidence is the dna evidence conducted in 2017 and the study in 2022 that confirmed the same results showing ancient Egyptians were most similar to the Egyptians of today. As to what Aristotle said, he seems to be making no exact comment on their ethnicity but rather stating that their too dark in general to be considered brave. A weird take for sure but he makes sure to separate the two people (Egyptians and Ethiopians) because he sees them as two separate people. You can add the fact that all scholars distinguish Egyptians from Ethiopians. You can add ancient depictions of Egyptians by Egyptians as appearing brown relative to whiter Libyans and darker Ethiopians. The amount of evidence is overwhelming but you only choose to look at the small obscure references that promote your claim no different than any other conspiracy theorist

2. Different ethnic groups come from common ancestors as do all ethnic groups. So that answers your random question of “if they were different ethnic groups why would a respected historian…”. For example the Jews believe all people came from themselves even though all people do not look like them. It’s a very common view.

3. So you have one historical figure saying Ethiopians took credit for hieroglyphs? Cool. That doesn’t really mean much. People take credit they don’t deserve all the time and falsely attribute things all the time. Right now you’re attempting to falsely proclaim Egyptians were predominately black despite all evidence being against you.

 

[Vol8188]

I don't know where you're getting Morocco from. I've said nothing about that place. The modern country of Morocco is mixed. There are some black Berber tribes native to that region but the majority of the population today is non-black. How modern day North Africa became non-black is another discussion. My argument in this thread has only been limited to Ancient Egypt and the phenotype of their population. The modern state of Egypt is of no interest to me.

That's why you'll notice all my posts show links to accounts from Ancient Greek historians. I'm talking only about the population of Ancient Egypt not of modern day Egypt. And obviously given how the Ancient Greeks described the Ancient Egyptians that population clearly had different phenotype than the modern population of Egypt.

Morocco is the home of the worlds oldest homosapien remains. That’s why it comes up.

If I provide claims that oppose your claims from other Ancient Greek historians and/or from ancient Egyptians themselves would it change your mind?

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

Lol your racial conspiracy YouTube channel at the end “HomeTeam History!” was the best part of this post.

But let’s start at the top.

1. Nearly all scholars reject that, not just the white ones. The most obvious evidence is the dna evidence conducted in 2017 and the study in 2022 that confirmed the same results showing ancient Egyptians were most similar to the Egyptians of today. As to what Aristotle said, he seems to be making no exact comment on their ethnicity but rather stating that their too dark in general to be considered brave. A weird take for sure but he makes sure to separate the two people (Egyptians and Ethiopians) because he sees them as two separate people. You can add the fact that all scholars distinguish Egyptians from Ethiopians. You can add ancient depictions of Egyptians by Egyptians as appearing brown relative to whiter Libyans and darker Ethiopians. The amount of evidence is overwhelming but you only choose to look at the small obscure references that promote your claim no different than any other conspiracy theorist


3. So you have one historical figure saying Ethiopians took credit for hieroglyphs? Cool. That doesn’t really mean much. People take credit they don’t deserve all the time and falsely attribute things all the time. Right now you’re attempting to falsely proclaim Egyptians were predominately black despite all evidence being against you.

1. You didn't counter a single point made in the Hometeam History video. Ad-hominem attacks are not a valid counter argument. The video shows that the hieroglyphic for face in Ancient Egypt had an unmistakable negroid phenotype to it. How do you explain the fact the Ancient Egyptians used that hieroglyph to represent "face" if they didn't look like that? Or better yet that the people who created the hieroglyphic writing system didn't look like that either?

2. I debunked the 2017 DNA study already in this thread. Use the search feature to find my arguments throughly debunking it. That study was as valid as scientists in the year 4000 finding a cemetery in Harlem testing the remains there and then proclaiming the population of the United States was entirely black for its entire history. That study tested remains from one site in Northern Egypt that was used by the Greeks for burial during their occupation of Egypt. It included no mummies from any royal families. Or from others parts of Egypt (in particular Southern Egypt where the leadership of Ancient Egypt resided for most of its history).

With that said, regardless of what the DNA studies say, that still doesn't explain away what the Ancient Greeks had to say. Why would they repeatedly claim the Ancient Egyptians had black skin and wooly hair if the Ancient Egyptians looked like modern day Arabs? Also why would the Ancient Greeks continually compare the Ancient Egyptians to the Nubians? If the Ancient Egyptians were a non-black race why are they constantly mentioned alongside the Nubians when it comes to appearance?

You can't just ignore what the Ancient Greeks had to say about the race of the Ancient Egyptians by claiming moderm scholars are also ignoring their claims. At the very least you should explain why the Ancient Greeks would repeatedly say the Ancient Egyptians were black if they actually weren't black.

3. The Ancient Egyptians being predominantly black is not my position. It's the position of the Ancient Greeks, the Ancient Nubians, the Ancient Egyptians, as well as the Bible, Quran, and Torah. I am simply regurgitating what these sources have said about the appearance of the Ancient Egyptians. The Ancient Greeks have repeatedly said they were black skinned and had wooly hair. The Ancient Nubians said the Ancient Egyptians were a colony of theirs. The Ancient Egyptians depicted themselves as having dark skin with afro textured hair that they commonly wore in twists and braids. And finally the Bible, Quran, and Torah all agree that Ancient Egypt was one of the sons of Ham (father of the black race) along with Kush (which was the Biblical name for Nubia).

If you are religiously unaware. According to the Abrahamic faiths, after the flood wiped out humanity, all the nations of the known world at the time the Bible was written were descended from Noah and his 3 sons. Now I'm not citing this to say the flood of the Bible actually happened and we are all actually descendants of Noah and his 3 sons. I'm simply using the mythology from the Abrahamic faiths to show you how people in the ancient world saw the closeness in relationships with one another.

So according to the Bible, Noah had 3 sons. Shem, Japeth, and Ham. Shem is considered the father of the Arabs and the Jews. This is where we get the term Semite from. Japeth is considered the father of the "white race". Nations like the Greeks and Persians are considered sons of Japeth. And finally, Ham is considered the father of the "black race". One of Ham's sons was Kush (which was the biblical name for Nubia aka Ethiopia to the Ancient Greeks). The other son of Ham was "Mizraim" which is the biblical name for Ancient Egypt. So according to the Biblical tradition Ancient Egypt and Nubia were both sons of Ham the so-called father of the black race.

FTR the "Curse of Ham" was used during the slave trade to justify the enslavement of Africans. The theory being that since black people are descendants of Ham they were cursed by God to be slaves of Noah's other sons. This of course was biblically inaccurate as the curse was placed on Canaan and his descendants and not Ham. But nonetheless this controversy over who was cursed proves that Ham and his descendants were viewed as black. And with Ancient Egypt being one of Ham's descendants that makes the Ancient Egyptians black according to the biblical tradition.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

Morocco is the home of the worlds oldest homosapien remains. That’s why it comes up.

If I provide claims that oppose your claims from other Ancient Greek historians and/or from ancient Egyptians themselves would it change your mind?

I've been studying Ancient Egypt and other Ancient African civilizations for 20 years now. It's been a passion of mine since I was a child. So there's probably nothing you can show me that I haven't heard or seen before. But by all means go ahead and try. I'm sure the internet can help you formulate some arguments to try and show that the Ancient Egyptians weren't black. However, before you do that, ask yourself this. Why are you so confident you can change my mind on a subject I've been studying for 20 years while its obvious you are a novice to this given your ignorance of the works of seminal scholars like Diodorus Siculus and Herodutus?

I'll tell why. Because you like me grew up in a world where the stereotype is that black people are less intelligent and less capable of creating civilization as other races. I mean just look at Africa. Or better yet anywhere in the world where black people are the majority of the population. Every single one of those countries is undeveloped and constantly poor. Also there's the legacy of slavery. I mean how could a people who have been dominated by other races for so long create arguably the greatest civilization in the ancient world? Don't worry I thought the same things as a child when I first heard about the Ancient Egyptians being black. I thought surely this is wishful thinking. Somebody must have twisted the words of the Ancient Greeks cause there's no way the Ancient Egyptians could be black. So you know what I did? I went to my local library as a 13 year old and went to the classics section of the library that kept the works of the Ancient Greeks. I looked up Herodutus on History and turned to the page where he discusses the Colchians. When I saw that he actually did say the Ancient Egyptians had black skin and wooly hair, my entire world changed. It was then that I started studying everything I could about the Ancient Egyptians, the Ancient Greeks, and practically everything about the Ancient world.

Being black makes it easier for me to accept this truth. As a non-black person I'm sure you'll fight this reality a bit harder. Just so you know, other white men have come to the same realization I did. Here's an account from French Egyptologist Constantin De Volney after he visited Egypt for the first time and saw the Sphinx: Constantin François de Chassebœuf, comte de Volney - Wikipedia

“to think that this race of black men, today our slave and the object of our contempt, is the very one to whom we owe our arts, our sciences and even the use of speech.

For the record De Volney wasn't alone. A bunch of other European scholars from that era spoke on the dichotomy of realizing that the greatest civilization of the Ancient World was made by the same race of people who were being enslaved across the world at that time.

 

[Vol8188]

1. You didn't counter a single point made in the Hometeam History video. Ad-hominem attacks are not a valid counter argument. The video shows that the hieroglyphic for face in Ancient Egypt had an unmistakable negroid phenotype to it. How do you explain the fact the Ancient Egyptians used that hieroglyph to represent "face" if they didn't look like that? Or better yet that the people who created the hieroglyphic writing system didn't look like that either?

2. I debunked the 2017 DNA study already in this thread. Use the search feature to find my arguments throughly debunking it. That study was as valid as scientists in the year 4000 finding a cemetery in Harlem testing the remains there and then proclaiming the population of the United States was entirely black for its entire history. That study tested remains from one site in Northern Egypt that was used by the Greeks for burial during their occupation of Egypt. It included no mummies from any royal families. Or from others parts of Egypt (in particular Southern Egypt where the leadership of Ancient Egypt resided for most of its history).

With that said, regardless of what the DNA studies say, that still doesn't explain away what the Ancient Greeks had to say. Why would they repeatedly claim the Ancient Egyptians had black skin and wooly hair if the Ancient Egyptians looked like modern day Arabs? Also why would the Ancient Greeks continually compare the Ancient Egyptians to the Nubians? If the Ancient Egyptians were a non-black race why are they constantly mentioned alongside the Nubians when it comes to appearance?

You can't just ignore what the Ancient Greeks had to say about the race of the Ancient Egyptians by claiming moderm scholars are also ignoring their claims. At the very least you should explain why the Ancient Greeks would repeatedly say the Ancient Egyptians were black if they actually weren't black.

3. The Ancient Egyptians being predominantly black is not my position. It's the position of the Ancient Greeks, the Ancient Nubians, the Ancient Egyptians, as well as the Bible, Quran, and Torah. I am simply regurgitating what these sources have said about the appearance of the Ancient Egyptians. The Ancient Greeks have repeatedly said they were black skinned and had wooly hair. The Ancient Nubians said the Ancient Egyptians were a colony of theirs. The Ancient Egyptians depicted themselves as having dark skin with afro textured hair that they commonly wore in twists and braids. And finally the Bible, Quran, and Torah all agree that Ancient Egypt was one of the sons of Ham (father of the black race) along with Kush (which was the Biblical name for Nubia).

If you are religiously unaware. According to the Abrahamic faiths, after the flood wiped out humanity, all the nations of the known world at the time the Bible was written were descended from Noah and his 3 sons. Now I'm not citing this to say the flood of the Bible actually happened and we are all actually descendants of Noah and his 3 sons. I'm simply using the mythology from the Abrahamic faiths to show you how people in the ancient world saw the closeness in relationships with one another.

So according to the Bible, Noah had 3 sons. Shem, Japeth, and Ham. Shem is considered the father of the Arabs and the Jews. This is where we get the term Semite from. Japeth is considered the father of the "white race". Nations like the Greeks and Persians are considered sons of Japeth. And finally, Ham is considered the father of the "black race". One of Ham's sons was Kush (which was the biblical name for Nubia aka Ethiopia to the Ancient Greeks). The other son of Ham was "Mizraim" which is the biblical name for Ancient Egypt. So according to the Biblical tradition Ancient Egypt and Nubia were both sons of Ham the so-called father of the black race.

FTR the "Curse of Ham" was used during the slave trade to justify the enslavement of Africans. The theory being that since black people are descendants of Ham they were cursed by God to be slaves of Noah's other sons. This of course was biblically inaccurate as the curse was placed on Canaan and his descendants and not Ham. But nonetheless this controversy over who was cursed proves that Ham and his descendants were viewed as black. And with Ancient Egypt being one of Ham's descendants that makes the Ancient Egyptians black according to the biblical tradition.

1. I have no interest in watching racial conspiracy YouTube videos. The same way I’d ignore someone posting flat earth videos from YouTube.

2. You failed to mention the 2022 study that used a larger sample and confirmed the 2017 findings. Most depictions by Greeks don’t seem to use wooly hair but rather refer to them as shaved. As to the “why would some refer to them as black”, the same reason you do and the same reason others refer to them as Caucasian. Because it fits their racist narrative. You’re making the mistake of believing that because one racist theory is wrong that your racist theory must be right. Despite overwhelming evidence Egyptians were middle eastern people (their own depictions of themselves as reddish/brown, their own depictions of Nubians as darker than themselves, numerous DNA studies, and living in a geographical crossroads where you’d naturally get a very ethnically diverse people).

3. Notice how just like every other people the hebrews make a distinction between Egyptians (mizraim) and other people of Africa? The same way all the authors you’ve mentioned do not refer to the Ethiopians as the same as the Egyptians but rather as two distinct people which for racist reasons you continually try to lump together.

Ultimately though, I’m done with this. The same way flat earthers will tell you everything that disagrees with them comes from satanic scientists, you’ll merely proclaim contradictory evidence is from bigots. For openly stated racist reasons you’ve devoted decades of your life to a conspiracy theory. It’s both sad and gross. I’m sorry you can’t find self esteem without attempting to attach yourself to the accomplishments of others. You should look into that as heavily as you’ve looked into this

 

[marcusluvsvols]

Gwinn: Deion Sanders Needs to Make His Success About Religion, Not Race​

View attachment 575695

A sense of euphoria and amazement dominated the field in Fort Worth, Texas, on Saturday after Deion Sanders and his completely remade roster of Colorado Buffaloes pulled off an incredible win on the home turf of a team that made it to the national championship game last year.

However, in the post-game press conference, Sanders’ tone took a decidedly disunifying turn as he talked about how his “75% African American” roster would be seen as “threatening,” and how “they” don’t like that. He also took a few shots at the media for good measure.

Gwinn: Deion Sanders Should Make His Success About Religion, Not Race

A sense of euphoria and amazement dominated the field in Fort Worth, Texas, on Saturday after Deion Sanders and his completely remade roster of Colorado Buffaloes pulled off an incredible win on the home turf of a team that made it to the national championship game last year.

www.breitbart.com

I watched the end of this game and didnt see this particular interview. That said:

I would assume our VOLS roster is also 75% black...and so is half of our coaching staff. So whats he talking about? I am talking actual scholarship players...seems like we have more white guys on the practice squad/walk ons etc, but actual scholarship players....who is NOT black? Cooper mayes, McCastles at TE...and a couple Olinemen like Nichols? There isnt a single person on defense 1st or 2nd team that isnt black...plus none of our skill.players on offense but Nico and McCastles right? I saw in the PFF grades that a 3rd or 4th team safety which i had never heard of playd like 15 snaps in the 4th quarter...Brooks maybe was his last name?

My point being that pretty much every team in the SEC is about 75% black or more....the only Power 5 teams with a bunch of white guys are the Iowas, Kansas, etc of the Big10 who simply cant recruit black kids from the south to go up north to inferior programs and freeze their azzes off 6 months each year...you know, the teams that always get 50+ points hung on them by middling SEC teams in bowl games because they are so slow on the edges. Year after year. S

So what the Hell is Deion talking about? Just being a racist bastard for no apparent reason i guess? Football, like basketball, has long since been dominated by black athletes. For decades. Is he trying to dupe his players into believing that the whole world is against them because they are mostly black? As if all the good P5 teams arent also mostly black? To take it a step further, was Deion this racist before he went to coach at that HBCU where they teach afrocentric bullcrap like D4h is always regurgitating? Or did he get these racist ideas and nonsense mindset while in that environment? How many white coaches does Deion have on his staff? How many kids lives did he ruin when he kicked every single player previously at Colorado off scholarship so he could bring in 85 new players? Lots of questions here and very few answers.

 

[Carl Pickens]

Herodotus, The Histories, Book 2, chapter 104

www.perseus.tufts.edu

Here's what Herodutus had to say on the appearance of the Ancient Egyptians:

https://www.philipharland.com/Blog/2022/08/ethiopians-diodoros-first-century-bce/

Here's Diodorus talking about how the Egyptians are descendants of the Nubians (aka Ethiopians):




Here's Diodorus talking about how hieroglyphics are of Nubian (aka Ethiopian) origin:



I won't insult you for your ignorance on this topic because European men from the 1800s have done a good job hiding this information but the idea that the Ancient Egyptians were black was a well accepted concept before the rise of white supremacy. Europeans couldn't claim to be superior to Africans if their own ancestors said black people taught them civilization. So as a result Ancient Egypt had to become non-black.

Google the "Hamitic Hypothesis". It'll show you how European academics in the 1800s took Ancient Egypt and made it non-black. Essentially they said that black skin and kinky hair don't make someone black. So they transformed the Ancient Egyptians as well as the peoples of modern day East Africa (like the Tutsi, Somalis, Ethiopians, and even the Masaai) into dark skin Caucasians. In fact to this day if you look up old books on racial classification you'll see East Africans being grouped with the Caucasian race. It's all part of the legacy of trying to explain away why the Ancient Greeks and Romans said the Ancient Egyptians were black.

Ok …. So what happened?

 

[W.TN.Orange Blood]

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

1. I have no interest in watching racial conspiracy YouTube videos. The same way I’d ignore someone posting flat earth videos from YouTube.

2. You failed to mention the 2022 study that used a larger sample and confirmed the 2017 findings. Most depictions by Greeks don’t seem to use wooly hair but rather refer to them as shaved. As to the “why would some refer to them as black”, the same reason you do and the same reason others refer to them as Caucasian. Because it fits their racist narrative. You’re making the mistake of believing that because one racist theory is wrong that your racist theory must be right. Despite overwhelming evidence Egyptians were middle eastern people (their own depictions of themselves as reddish/brown, their own depictions of Nubians as darker than themselves, numerous DNA studies, and living in a geographical crossroads where you’d naturally get a very ethnically diverse people).

3. Notice how just like every other people the hebrews make a distinction between Egyptians (mizraim) and other people of Africa? The same way all the authors you’ve mentioned do not refer to the Ethiopians as the same as the Egyptians but rather as two distinct people which for racist reasons you continually try to lump together.

Ultimately though, I’m done with this. The same way flat earthers will tell you everything that disagrees with them comes from satanic scientists, you’ll merely proclaim contradictory evidence is from bigots. For openly stated racist reasons you’ve devoted decades of your life to a conspiracy theory. It’s both sad and gross. I’m sorry you can’t find self esteem without attempting to attach yourself to the accomplishments of others. You should look into that as heavily as you’ve looked into this

1. Actually the Ancient Egyptians depicted many Nubians as having the same reddish brown skin tone as them. Just look at this famous portrait of Ramses trampling some Nubians in battle.



If you look closely half the Nubian army has the same skin color as Ramses and the typical Ancient Egyptian while the other half have jet black skin.

If you've ever been to Africa especially Sudan you will know this is an accurate depiction of the diversity of skin tones found among black people. We're not all jet black. And FYI some Ancient Egyptians Pharoahs and Queens were depicted with jet black skin like Mentuhotep and Ahmose Nefertari. So it wasn't just the Nubians. The Ancient Egyptians also had some members with jet black skin. Just as the Nubians had many reddish brown skin members.

2. The Hebrews also made distinctions between different groups of Europeans. The Greeks and Romans were called different names because they were different nations. Same with Africans. The Egyptians and Nubians were called different names because they were different nations. The key here is the Hebrews didn't see the Egyptians and Nubians as being related to them. However, they saw the Arabs as being their kin. Which is why they claimed they and the Arabs were descendants of Shem while the Nubians and Egyptians were descendants of Ham. They also saw themselves distinct from the Greeks and other Europeans.

The Bible is very clear on this topic. You can try and wiggle your way out of it as much as you like but according to the Biblical tradition Ancient Egypt and Ancient Nubia were siblings. While the Arabs and Jews were descendants of another forefather. Thus showing that the Bible clearly saw the Ancient Egyptians as a non-middle eastern people but rather as a negroid population.

 

[Vol8188]

1. Actually the Ancient Egyptians depicted many Nubians as having the same reddish brown skin tone as them. Just look at this famous portrait of Ramses trampling some Nubians in battle.

View attachment 575934

If you look closely half the Nubian army has the same skin color as Ramses and the typical Ancient Egyptian while the other half have jet black skin.

If you've ever been to Africa especially Sudan you will know this is an accurate depiction of the diversity of skin tones found among black people. We're not all jet black. And FYI some Ancient Egyptians Pharoahs and Queens were depicted with jet black skin like Mentuhotep and Ahmose Nefertari. So it wasn't just the Nubians. The Ancient Egyptians also had some members with jet black skin. Just as the Nubians had many reddish brown skin members.

2. The Hebrews also made distinctions between different groups of Europeans. The Greeks and Romans were called different names because they were different nations. Same with Africans. The Egyptians and Nubians were called different names because they were different nations. The key here is the Hebrews didn't see the Egyptians and Nubians as being related to them. However, they saw the Arabs as being their kin. Which is why they claimed they and the Arabs were descendants of Shem while the Nubians and Egyptians were descendants of Ham. They also saw themselves distinct from the Greeks and other Europeans.

The Bible is very clear on this topic. You can try and wiggle your way out of it as much as you like but according to the Biblical tradition Ancient Egypt and Ancient Nubia were siblings. While the Arabs and Jews were descendants of another forefather. Thus showing that the Bible clearly saw the Ancient Egyptians as a non-middle eastern people but rather as a negroid population.

Your entire argument as stated by you is based in phenotype and now you’re admitting “we aren’t all jet black” (phenotype).

I think you just failed.

The other problem with your “logic” is that you’re attempting to falsely proclaim there’s only 3 ethnicities. As if Slavs, Romanians, Scots, etc are all the same. That way you (most likely the descendant of western Africans) can attempt to falsely take credit for the accomplishments of Egyptians. What’s even more insane is Africa is far larger than Europe and you’re still attempting to proclaim these are the same people throughout. No one considers the mongols and Palestinians to be the same people. That’s the argument you’re making

It would be like myself (mainly of English, Scottish, and Norwegian descent) attempting to take credit for the great Roman Empire or Byzantine empire

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

Your entire argument as stated by you is based in phenotype and now you’re admitting “we aren’t all jet black” (phenotype).

Have you ever seen a group of black people? We have different shades of brown. It's called nature. In fact even in the same family you'll see siblings who have the same father and mother have different tones of brown. Just look at Nigerian born NBA superstar Giannis Antentokoumpo and his 3 brothers.





Same father. Same mother. All Nigerian. And yet different shades of brown. The Ancient Egyptians in their art tried to capture this natural diversity in skin tone among native born Africans. Giannis would probably have been painted with a light reddish brown. While his 2 other brothers would have been a darker shade of brown. And his darkest brother would probably have been the only one who would be jet black.

This is called accurately depicting the skin color native to the African continent.

 

[Vol8188]

Have you ever seen a group of black people? We have different shades of brown. It's called nature. In fact even in the same family you'll see siblings who have the same father and mother have different tones of brown. Just look at Nigerian born NBA superstar Giannis Antentokoumpo and his 3 brothers.

View attachment 575951

View attachment 575948

Same father. Same mother. All Nigerian. And yet different shades of brown. The Ancient Egyptians in their art tried to capture this natural diversity in skin tone among native born Africans. Giannis would probably have been painted with a light reddish brown. While his 2 other brothers would have been a darker shade of brown. And his darkest brother would probably have been the only one who would be jet black.

This is called accurately depicting the skin color native to the African continent.

You completely ignored the rest of my claims. Should the Scottish take credit for the accomplishments of the Byzantine empire? Should the Palestinians take credit for the accomplishments of the Japanese and the mongols?

The world isn’t only made of 3 ethnicities as you’re attempting to claim. West Africans like yourself and Egyptians aren’t the same people. Me being English doesn’t make me Russian.

I’m sorry you’ve wasted decades of your life trying to take credit for the accomplishments of others