The Foreign Trade Thread

#351
#351
Bjorn_Yesterday said:
Wait till the 25% tarrifs take effect in January. Wrecked margins and productivity bottlenecks for all.

The scale to produce these brass, copper, and carbon steel products in large quantities hasn't existed in the west for over 60 years...and it won't just pop back up overnight.

Pair it with current market volatility / recession indicators for a real good time.
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And that capacity needs to be back online in North America. Even if there are near term consequences. A recession is a small price to pay in exchange for not being dependant on communist thieves for our industries to be functional.
 
#352
#352
Thunder Good-Oil said:
And that capacity needs to be back online in North America. Even if there are near term consequences. A recession is a small price to pay in exchange for not being dependant on communist thieves for our industries to be functional.
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If China can make copper widgets cheaper than a U.S. company can, why shouldn't we buy the Chinese ones?
 
#353
#353
Velo Vol said:
If China can make copper widgets cheaper than a U.S. company can, why shouldn't we buy the Chinese ones?
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That's fine as long as our manufacturing plants don't shut down as a direct result. I'd rather see that kind of production located in Mexico. China steals and cheats.

Is it okay to get components at a better price out of China if they also pay poverty level wages and pollute the environment unabated?

Will China continue to supply us with these components when WWIII breaks out? At least if the plants were in Mexico we could quickly invade and patriate them if Mexico became an adversary. More likely though, having those manufacturing facilities south of the Rio Grande advances our relationship. China will never be a trusted friend. We need to move away from dependence on their manufacturing to prop up our economy. I don't care about short term economic hiccups if the long term trend is reversed.
 
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#354
#354
At times Trump appears to be an over the top, hated bully. But I want to keep government officials in place that will fight for America's best interests. The last guy exhibited weakness when he'd bow before other world leaders and kowtow to the globalists. I sure wouldn't want to trade places with France or the rest of Europe.
 
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#355
#355
Thunder Good-Oil said:
That's fine as long as our manufacturing plants don't shut down as a direct result. I'd rather see that kind of production located in Mexico. China steals and cheats.

Is it okay to get components at a better price out of China if they also pay poverty level wages and pollute the environment unabated?

Will China continue to supply us with these components when WWIII breaks out? At least if the plants were in Mexico we could quickly invade and patriate them if Mexico became an adversary. More likely though, having those manufacturing facilities south of the Rio Grande advances our relationship. China will never be a trusted friend. We need to move away from dependence on their manufacturing to prop up our economy. I don't care about short term economic hiccups if the long term trend is reversed.
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I don't know what parts we're talking about. It's a hypothetical. There is the provision that allows for protectionism for essential goods. It's being abused now to put metal tariffs on Canada.

But the general proposition is that we don't have to, nor should we, make everything we consume. Some products we're better at manufacturing, other products China's is better at manufacturing. Comparative advantage.

 
#356
#356
Velo Vol said:
I don't know what parts we're talking about. It's a hypothetical. There is the provision that allows for protectionism for essential goods. It's being abused now to put metal tariffs on Canada.

But the general proposition is that we don't have to, nor should we, make everything we consume. Some products we're better at manufacturing, other products China's is better at manufacturing. Comparative advantage.

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Is China better at making certain items or are they just not constrained with comparative environmental regulations and uncompetitive wages? I don't care if they're making underwear and paper plates. I don't want to depend on them for components in machinery and electronics.
 
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#359
#359
Thunder Good-Oil said:
Is China better at making certain items or are they just not constrained with comparative environmental regulations and uncompetitive wages? I don't care if they're making underwear and paper plates. I don't want to depend on them for components in machinery and electronics.
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Shouldn't this be where the U.S. has an advantage, if it requires more educated workers?
 
#360
#360
Velo Vol said:
Shouldn't this be where the U.S. has an advantage, if it requires more educated workers?
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Semiconductor mfg is almost 100% automated. The location of the “smart people” is completely disassociated with the location of the fab. Plus the chemicals and byproducts from the fab aren’t very environmentally friendly.

The majority of US based fabs left are driven by strategic planning decisions.
 
#361
#361
What exactly is China manufacturing and exporting to the US? It isn't agriculture, energy, or autos? Appliances, shoes, and textiles?
 
#363
#363
Velo Vol said:
Shouldn't this be where the U.S. has an advantage, if it requires more educated workers?
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Define “ more educated workers “ if by that you mean in the maufactoring and assembly of a widget , no . The facilities that aren’t mostly automated like ND40 was talking about have a very specific way ( system ) of manufacturing and assembling the parts . All major companies have a system in place like this that has be studied , timed, tweeked , and modified to cut down on lost time and to lean the process . No wasted motions . It’s as easy as step #1 - step #2 - step #3 . Your education means nothing as long as you can follow the simple steps . It’s a plug and play system by design .
 
#366
#366
Thunder Good-Oil said:
What exactly is China manufacturing and exporting to the US? It isn't agriculture, energy, or autos? Appliances, shoes, and textiles?
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MW-GN669_china__20180802115002_NS.jpg
 
#367
#367
n_huffhines said:
What did he teach you about trade, I wonder?
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The question was who was my favorite economist. It wasn't which economic theorist has the most compelling thought or convincing arguments. I don't have to be a Nobel laureate to understand that the largest exporter in the world cheats and steals from us and needs to be dealt with by any appropriate means. I understand that the rest of the top trading nations are our political as well as economic allies and that we can leverage our position as the leading economic force in the world to influence those countries to support a consolidated effort to force that largest exporter to follow rules or face the consequences of isolationism. Tariffs and trade agreements are simply tools in battles of an undeclared war with those communists. We need to win it before the socialist foothold here grows into a formidable opponent from within.
 
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#369
#369
Thunder Good-Oil said:
I understand that the rest of the top trading nations are our political as well as economic allies and that we can leverage our position as the leading economic force in the world to influence those countries to support a consolidated effort to force that largest exporter to follow rules or face the consequences of isolationism.
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This was one of the points for TPP, but that was bad, remember?

Thunder Good-Oil said:
Tariffs and trade agreements are simply tools in battles of an undeclared war with those communists. We need to win it before the socialist foothold here grows into a formidable opponent from within.
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Do Chinese clothes contain cooties that spread socialism?
 
#370
#370
Thunder Good-Oil said:
The question was who was my favorite economist. It wasn't which economic theorist has the most compelling thought or convincing arguments. I don't have to be a Nobel laureate to understand that the largest exporter in the world cheats and steals from us and needs to be dealt with by any appropriate means. I understand that the rest of the top trading nations are our political as well as economic allies and that we can leverage our position as the leading economic force in the world to influence those countries to support a consolidated effort to force that largest exporter to follow rules or face the consequences of isolationism. Tariffs and trade agreements are simply tools in battles of an undeclared war with those communists. We need to win it before the socialist foothold here grows into a formidable opponent from within.
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We are currency manipulators. We don't cheat and steal? Ever heard of Monsanto? China is stealing IP, but do you think China is doing anything worse than claiming IP they didn't invent is theirs? Monsanto is forcing farmers to pay them to use processes they've been using for centuries. We leverage our relationships to force places like Iraq and India to observe these completely bogus IP laws. People literally starve because food has become unaffordable to some. China is a bully. We're a bully. Neither of us has moral high ground. Stop making me pay higher consumer prices and taxes to punish China for **** we do too. It's economically stupid and we're going to suffer while Trump and his buddies are just fine
 
#372
#372
1972 Grad said:
Uh oh! Huff must have had to pay an extra $6.00 for his Christmas toys last weekend.
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I'm more worried about poor people than I am myself. Like the people that are already struggling so much that they have to put their Christmas toy shopping on layaway. An extra $6.00 per toy is something your privileged ass scoffs at, but it's meaningful to people that are less fortunate than us.
 
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#373
#373
I came from very humble beginnings, and have been very poor as a young adult. Surviving, and little more. I am very thankful now every Christmas that i am able to buy gifts for those i love. There was a time where i could only buy for my son, before i had 2 kids, and still have a place to live. Christ is the reason for the season, not gifts, but i am still very thankful every year now to be able to do for those that i love when before i could not. Some people never make it this far. Some have never known a Christmas as most know it, they are not forgotten to me.
 
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#374
#374
marcusluvsvols said:
I came from very humble beginnings, and have been very poor as a young adult. Surviving, and little more. I am very thankful now every Christmas that i am able to buy gifts for those i love. There was a time where i could only buy for my son, before i had 2 kids, and still have a place to live. Christ is the reason for the season, not gifts, but i am still very thankful every year now to be able to do for those that i love when before i could not. Some people never make it this far. Some have never known a Christmas as most know it, they are not forgotten to me.
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Tyler Perry and Kid Rock have been paying off layaway items at Wal-Marts (I think 3 total), so this is actually fresh on my mind. Kid Rock did it at a Wal Mart in Nashville last week. $81k worth of stuff. That's a lot of people who are struggling.

Say each toy averages out to $50, $6 per toy suddenly becomes an extra $10k that some of the poor people at just this one Wal Mart suddenly have to come up with. $6 sounds like nothing, but the economy is huge and so many operate on the margins.
 
#375
#375
n_huffhines said:
I'm more worried about poor people than I am myself. Like the people that are already struggling so much that they have to put their Christmas toy shopping on layaway. An extra $6.00 per toy is something your privileged ass scoffs at, but it's meaningful to people that are less fortunate than us.
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