The Golf Thread

[NYYVol]

2 things - swing path, and/or position of the face at impact.

with high swing speed, shafts with too high a degree of torque won't allow the clubface to square at impact. it is open and causes a fade.

most regular flex shafts have a higher degree of torque than stiffer shafts.

I know the specs.

Just saying you can't put a fade solely on the shaft.
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[golfballs]

I know the specs.

Just saying you can't put a fade solely on the shaft.
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yes. i just explained how.

 

[NYYVol]

yes. i just explained how.

The shaft is going on the plane/path to the ball that the golfer has put it on.

A too stiff/not stiff enough shaft could turn a fade/draw into a slice/hook.

But the shaft itself is not going to cause the fade just on its own.
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[BigPapaVol]

how do you know

I specifically said I'm not sure, without seeing the swing and ball flight.

Most often, when a shaft is too stiff you'll see shots out right or weak bleeders from inability to load the shaft.

With a beginner, most shots go right anyway because of several different faults. Blaming the shaft at this point is probably early. Some long hitters use decently stiff shafts, but their tempo is so solid that they don't need the extra oomph of a TS or XS. Stiffness is much more about tempo and reverse of directions than it is pure swing speed.

 

[BigPapaVol]

2 things - swing path, and/or position of the face at impact.

with high swing speed, shafts with too high a degree of torque won't allow the clubface to square at impact. it is open and causes a fade.

most regular flex shafts have a higher degree of torque than stiffer shafts.

some right, some wrong. Lower torgue ratings definitely don't mean less fade. Square clubface is most often about the golfer and not the shaft.

As to the cause of a slice, it's only one thing - face angle at impact relative to path of travel. That's it.

 

[BigPapaVol]

yes. i just explained how.

no, you didn't.

 

[golfballs]

The shaft is going on the plane/path to the ball that the golfer has put it on.

A too stiff/not stiff enough shaft could turn a fade/draw into a slice/hook.

But the shaft itself is not going to cause the fade just on its own.
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yeah it can. the club torques on every swing, not just swings that produce fades or draws.

as for my friend, his problems don't lie in the shaft alone. but it doesn't help.

 

[NYYVol]

no, you didn't.

Bpv in all your years of playing have you ever seen a scratch level golfer struggle with the laterals?

I've got a friend who literally has quit the game because it flared up on him one too many times. Damndest thing I've ever seen. Dude literally sold his clubs about a month ago.
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[golfballs]

some right, some wrong. Lower torgue ratings definitely don't mean less fade. Square clubface is most often about the golfer and not the shaft.

As to the cause of a slice, it's only one thing - face angle at impact relative to path of travel. That's it.

yeah, most often it is the golfer. i didn't say otherwise. but in his case the shaft is definitely to his detriment. if he keeps playing it, he will definitley develop swing flaws.

 

[BigPapaVol]

yeah it can. the club torques on every swing, not just swings that produce fades or draws.

as for my friend, his problems don't lie in the shaft alone. but it doesn't help.

maybe so, but the torque ratings across most iron shafts (specifically steel) are very low. Torque on iron shafts is rarely, if ever, the issue. If he's drawing irons and slicing woods, you might have a little argument, but that's most likely an issue with hanging back and trying to help the ball in the air.

 

[golfballs]

maybe so, but the torque ratings across most iron shafts (specifically steel) are very low. Torque on iron shafts is rarely, if ever, the issue. If he's drawing irons and slicing woods, you might have a little argument, but that's most likely an issue with hanging back and trying to help the ball in the air.

i was talking about his driver. he hits his irons ok.

 

[BigPapaVol]

Bpv in all your years of playing have you ever seen a scratch level golfer struggle with the laterals?

I've got a friend who literally has quit the game because it flared up on him one too many times. Damndest thing I've ever seen. Dude literally sold his clubs about a month ago.
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yes. Laterals are a killer and mental after a while. Guys will get to the point of preferring some sort of wood from 150 because that mug doesn't have a hosel. Many causes, no easy fixes.

Remember the Cleveland VAS that Pavin started playing them. That Godawful thing with no hosel was the ugliest iron ever made, but might work in that instance.

 

[BigPapaVol]

i was talking about his driver. he hits his irons ok.

I would still argue that the issue is swing more than shaft at this point. Many beginners, or thereabout, try to help the ball into the air and tend to hang on the back foot or open the club, adding dynamic loft, to help. Torque is really more about consistency and dispersion patterns than it is big ball movement. If his swing is really solid and the club hanging open due to shaft issues, he would naturally correct for that shaft issue and move on down the road.

 

[NYYVol]

yes. Laterals are a killer and mental after a while. Guys will get to the point of preferring some sort of wood from 150 because that mug doesn't have a hosel. Many causes, no easy fixes.

Remember the Cleveland VAS that Pavin started playing them. That Godawful thing with no hosel was the ugliest iron ever made, but might work in that instance.

I remember that. Dude was a solid and always done very well in our normal game.

It started with him with a wedge and eventually 170 in he couldn't pull the trigger.

Hate it for him.
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[BigPapaVol]

I remember that. Dude was a solid and always done very well in our normal game.

It started with him with a wedge and eventually 170 in he couldn't pull the trigger.

Hate it for him.
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has he gone to see some good coaches about it? It's usually due to a body change or from getting way inside on the downswing.

 

[golfballs]

I would still argue that the issue is swing more than shaft at this point. Many beginners, or thereabout, try to help the ball into the air and tend to hang on the back foot or open the club, adding dynamic loft, to help. Torque is really more about consistency and dispersion patterns than it is big ball movement. If his swing is really solid and the club hanging open due to shaft issues, he would naturally correct for that shaft issue and move on down the road.

beginners should have clubs that fit.

"naturally correct for shaft issues" i.e. overcompensate i.e. develop a swing flaw.

in this instance, you are just making an assumption, and with many beginners you are correct, but I've watched his swing, and I know what I'm talking about. he needs a new shaft in that thing or else he will start "naturally correcting". Not to mention he gets no distance and hits it real high. In his case a new shaft will make a significant difference.

 

[NYYVol]

has he gone to see some good coaches about it? It's usually due to a body change or from getting way inside on the downswing.

He saw a club pro here in East TN.

For a while I thought it had got better. But then it got much worse.

He had a bad habit of getting his weight shifted forward and also was very handsy. When his timing was on he was solid, when it wasn't he was off bad.
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[BigPapaVol]

beginners should have clubs that fit.

"naturally correct for shaft issues" i.e. overcompensate i.e. develop a swing flaw.

in this instance, you are just making an assumption, and with many beginners you are correct, but I've watched his swing, and I know what I'm talking about. he needs a new shaft in that thing or else he will start "naturally correcting". Not to mention he gets no distance and hits it real high. In his case a new shaft will make a significant difference.

No doubt that fitted clubs are the best situation.

not a swing flaw. Let his natural timing get the ball moving the right direction. If his tempo is repeating, his natural athletic ability can do that. If every shot is moving the same direction, the body will do that. Doesn't require a flaw.

I'm not really assuming. If all the big sticks produce the same shot, it means the shaft is being awfully consistent, which is not the hallmark of a crappy shaft.

 

[golfballs]

No doubt that fitted clubs are the best situation.

not a swing flaw. Let his natural timing get the ball moving the right direction. If his tempo is repeating, his natural athletic ability can do that. If every shot is moving the same direction, the body will do that. Doesn't require a flaw.

I'm not really assuming. If all the big sticks produce the same shot, it means the shaft is being awfully consistent, which is not the hallmark of a crappy shaft.

if he has to overcompensate for equipment that doesn't fit, it could produce a flaw

anyway, i said you were just assuming what his problem was. the shaft can be consistent, albeit the wrong one for him... if that's what you are refering to.

 

[BigPapaVol]

He saw a club pro here in East TN.

For a while I thought it had got better. But then it got much worse.

He had a bad habit of getting his weight shifted forward and also was very handsy. When his timing was on he was solid, when it wasn't he was off bad.
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scaring the shiz outta me just hearing about it.

 

[golfballs]

OK, change of subject.

Where do you play??

 

[NYYVol]

scaring the shiz outta me just hearing about it.

Try hitting behind him when he had the honor. I was cutting my hands on my belt buckle through impact.
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[cotton]

in this instance, you are just making an assumption, and with many beginners you are correct, but I've watched his swing, and I know what I'm talking about.

Just pointing out that you made the same assumption about my ball choice. I've got a ball I'm comfortable with, so I'm playing it. There are others that would probably fit just as well, and some that I know don't.

BTW, I play a set of Mizuno MXs that I had fitted about 3 years ago. I did not get fitted for a driver, but probably should. I play about a 3 year old Launcher with factory stiff, and I've got a new Bridgestone in the garage, mainly because I couldn't tell any difference on the range.

OK, change of subject.

Where do you play??

My home course is the Hopkinsville, KY Golf and Country Club.

 

[golfballs]

Just pointing out that you made the same assumption about my ball choice. I've got a ball I'm comfortable with, so I'm playing it. There are others that would probably fit just as well, and some that I know don't.

BTW, I play a set of Mizuno MXs that I had fitted about 3 years ago. I did not get fitted for a driver, but probably should. I play about a 3 year old Launcher with factory stiff, and I've got a new Bridgestone in the garage, mainly because I couldn't tell any difference on the range.



My home course is the Hopkinsville, KY Golf and Country Club.

haha. right. well i wasn't making any assumptions about your swing per se.

you've got a nice set. im playing with some Cleveland TA1s that I had made. but I still just hit off-the-rack drivers. you just have to hit them and see what works. but it is nice to have a lot of factory shaft options nowadays when you buy.

what degree is your driver?

 

[GAVol]

He saw a club pro here in East TN.

For a while I thought it had got better. But then it got much worse.

He had a bad habit of getting his weight shifted forward and also was very handsy. When his timing was on he was solid, when it wasn't he was off bad.
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Been there done that. When I was 16 I developed a god awful case of the shanks due to a quirky swing that a pro thought needed to be drastically changed. It got so bad that I wouldn't even go to the driving range unless it was deserted and nobody could see me trying to hit the ball. I probably went from being a decent Division1 prospect to barely being able to get it back together enough to be an NAIA walk on.

The 2 things that saved me were that I basically stopped practicing full shots for about 6 months and played only occasionally and eliminated all muscle memory . . . and the fact that all I did during that time was chip and putt and ended up with an above average short game that bailed me out a lot.