The Golf Thread

#16,626
#16,626
Matt2496 said:
These journalists interrogating Phil ... why won't they give the same treatment to Lebron James for playing for China?

They're just total hypocrites.
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By the same token, are the golfers going to get the same treatment for playing for Saudi Arabia by the ones who criticized NBA stars for playing for China? Or is it going to be a bunch of "whataboutism" talk where the usual suspects will be able to still criticize NBA players but won't come out and criticize the golfers?
 
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#16,630
#16,630
With these new additions to LIV, since the first tournament, who gets kicked off the island after only one free paycheck?
 
#16,631
#16,631
At this rate Rory will get his career grand slam. Only 5 or 6 stars stay on the PGA tour and a bunch of amateurs and bums. So Rahm, Morikawa, McILroy, JT and Scheffler.
 
#16,633
#16,633
DeepSpringsVol said:
At this rate Rory will get his career grand slam. Only 5 or 6 stars stay on the PGA tour and a bunch of amateurs and bums. So Rahm, Morikawa, McILroy, JT and Scheffler.
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Majors are still in a wait and see. But the PGA is already going to make concessions to keep members happy in hopes more dont leave.

Saw an article today about them increasing purses for several tournaments and changing the scheduling.

Sources: PGA Tour eyes revamped slate, purses
 
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#16,634
#16,634
This situation reminds me of the wrestling Monday Night Wars back in the 90s, only the wrestlers couldn’t compete in both promotions.

PGA = WWE
LIV = WCW (or AEW today)
Saudis = Ted Turner (or Tony Khan today)
 
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#16,637
#16,637
Lawrence Wright said:
There’s some pissed off executives in West Palm Beach and Ponte Vedra Beach right about now.
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I don't think they ever had much of an expectation that the R&A or the USGA would do anything except let them play in their tournaments. Neither organization really has a dog in the hunt.
 
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#16,638
#16,638
GAVol said:
I don't think they ever had much of an expectation that the R&A or the USGA would do anything except let them play in their tournaments. Neither organization really has a dog in the hunt.
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That’s true. But right now LIV players have no way to earn entry into those tournaments in the future. So over the long haul all their participation will dwindle as previous winners age out. LIV is applying for OWGR inclusion. That’s the key for acceptance. If approved they are all set. If denied they may just stay a series of highly paid exhibition events.
 
#16,639
#16,639
ZZ13 said:
That’s true. But right now LIV players have no way to earn entry into those tournaments in the future. So over the long haul all their participation will dwindle as previous winners age out. LIV is applying for OWGR inclusion. That’s the key for acceptance. If approved they are all set. If denied they may just stay a series of highly paid exhibition events.
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The Open and US Open could be entered through the qualifiers. That's in addition to the exemptions some of the LIV players already hold - until they expire as you noted. Not saying the LIV crew would go that route, but they could under the current provisions as I understand them.

Masters and PGA - different story potentially.
 
#16,641
#16,641
Question for the group - how many players/which players exactly would need to defect to LIV to get you to watch it? Is there any circumstance under which you'd watch it?

At this point, even if all the big name players defected, it still would not be entertaining golf. It doesn't mean anything, because the tournaments are so new. I get that all tournaments were brand new at some point, but tournaments mean something because people believe they mean something. The Masters meant something right out of the box because Bobby Jones founded and designed the course. These are sterile, exhibition-feeling events regardless of who is playing in them.
 
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#16,642
#16,642
05_never_again said:
Question for the group - how many players/which players exactly would need to defect to LIV to get you to watch it? Is there any circumstance under which you'd watch it?

At this point, even if all the big name players defected, it still would not be entertaining golf. It doesn't mean anything, because the tournaments are so new. I get that all tournaments were brand new at some point, but tournaments mean something because people believe they mean something. The Masters meant something right out of the box because Bobby Jones founded and designed the course. These are sterile, exhibition-feeling events regardless of who is playing in them.
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I don’t like the format. The teams thing is gimmicky and doesn’t make me interested in seeing the shots of someone who is +20. The shotgun starts are gimmicky too, tournaments coming down to the 18th Sunday are the most fun things to watch and that eliminates those. As you said, the tournaments are currently meaningless. Currently, if everyone of note jumped shipped then I’d probably just not watch pro golf and watch the individuals on YouTube I enjoy and that would be it. I’ve got no problem if others enjoy it, but it’s just meh to me.
 
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#16,643
#16,643
05_never_again said:
Question for the group - how many players/which players exactly would need to defect to LIV to get you to watch it? Is there any circumstance under which you'd watch it?

At this point, even if all the big name players defected, it still would not be entertaining golf. It doesn't mean anything, because the tournaments are so new. I get that all tournaments were brand new at some point, but tournaments mean something because people believe they mean something. The Masters meant something right out of the box because Bobby Jones founded and designed the course. These are sterile, exhibition-feeling events regardless of who is playing in them.
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What does the Ryder cup mean or the President’s cup? Just gimmicky team events. I don’t mind watching the best golfers play regardless of the format. I’d just assume watch a LIV event as I would 95% of the PGA Tour events. Nobody gets excited over the John Deere classic or the travelers championship or a host of others. Other than the majors and maybe a couple tour events the others are just filler events.
 
#16,644
#16,644
C-south said:
What does the Ryder cup mean or the President’s cup? Just gimmicky team events. I don’t mind watching the best golfers play regardless of the format. I’d just assume watch a LIV event as I would 95% of the PGA Tour events. Nobody gets excited over the John Deere classic or the travelers championship or a host of others. Other than the majors and maybe a couple tour events the others are just filler events.
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Both those events, especially the Ryder Cup, mean something because fans and players think they mean something. The Ryder Cup has a lot of history, but it its early days it derived a lot of meaning from representing your country (and still does).

I don't even watch golf outside of the majors, Ryder Cup, and a couple other events like The Players. However, from a fan's perspective, it just is not entertaining to watch guys play in a new event where they'll make gobs of money regardless of where they finish. It doesn't feel like anything is at stake. I think that's actually my biggest criticism; not that the tournaments are new (e.g., the CFP is new, and that certainly does not diminish its appeal), but that they get paid to just show up, kind of like some Hollywood awards show or something.
 
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#16,645
#16,645
05_never_again said:
Question for the group - how many players/which players exactly would need to defect to LIV to get you to watch it? Is there any circumstance under which you'd watch it?

At this point, even if all the big name players defected, it still would not be entertaining golf. It doesn't mean anything, because the tournaments are so new. I get that all tournaments were brand new at some point, but tournaments mean something because people believe they mean something. The Masters meant something right out of the box because Bobby Jones founded and designed the course. These are sterile, exhibition-feeling events regardless of who is playing in them.
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I’m already interested. I like the new attempt at the format because golf needs more players and viewers. You’ve got to compete with time limit events like the NBA, NFL and soccer. Until 2020 Covid-golf had declining player numbers since 2001. The shorter tournament, teams, money, fewer events, and shotgun starts can help bring in new blood. If the old guard and purists don’t like it-you still have the PGA. I think it’s short-sighted to reject one or the other because more golf benefits golf, similar to how the USFL helps football. LIV has the financial backing to compete with the PGA and I think golf will likely evolve to pull the best elements from both tours. Really excited to see where this goes.
 
#16,646
#16,646
Good to know this thread exists. Should have checked in before. Peay and I talk golf a bit in another forum. My two cents...

LIV will evolve as well as the PGA and Euro Tours. Personally could care less if LIV exists. I care about the PGA Tour. The path to golf stardom in America runs through the PGA Tour, its tradition, its courses, its community involvement. A money grab exhibition type goofy golf with SA backing is not what I care anything about watching. Which is why I do not follow the NBA anymore due to China and pansy style of play. But the players are free to do whatever. So am I.

I want the PGA Tour to succeed for similar reasons as the Euros, Japan, etc. want their tours to succeed. It impacts all of their people in positive ways. As a result, I want the Ryder Cup and the Presidents Cup to succeed. Minus respective non-tour member participation of course.

I do want the PGA Tour to remove the now non-members from the FedEx Cup points list. They are no longer members and the guys who are should move up the ranks accordingly. They chose to leave the tour that made them names and successful. Buh-bye. Should the tour decide to make peace at some point, which I hope never happens, they can be added back. I would rather see the young guns making their way up the ladder than the has-beens and wannabes who only have their bank accounts in mind. Some of the marginal tour guys who have struggled to stay exempt will now get in more tournaments and have the opportunity to improve.

In an unusual twist I agree with Nick Faldo. It's about the trophy. It's about winning the championships that golf greats before you won on great golf courses. Anything that waters that down I am against.
 
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#16,648
#16,648
05_never_again said:
Question for the group - how many players/which players exactly would need to defect to LIV to get you to watch it? Is there any circumstance under which you'd watch it?

At this point, even if all the big name players defected, it still would not be entertaining golf. It doesn't mean anything, because the tournaments are so new. I get that all tournaments were brand new at some point, but tournaments mean something because people believe they mean something. The Masters meant something right out of the box because Bobby Jones founded and designed the course. These are sterile, exhibition-feeling events regardless of who is playing in them.
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I’m in the same boat.

I’ll watch all four majors plus The Players regardless of who’s in the field. LIV won’t change that.
 
#16,649
#16,649
Volfan8282 said:
That’s the crux to all of this. If Augusta National, the PGA of America, the USGA, and the R&A don’t unify on this, the PGA Tour is pissing into the wind. My guess is that players like Koepka, Hovland, Cam Smith, Ancer, Wolff, Bubba, Berger, etc. may jump ship in the next 6-12 months. If they do, then the majors aren’t going to exclude that sort of talent.

Unfortunately, society has about a 2 second memory in this 24/7 news cycle. It’s going to be easier and easier for players to go over there as this becomes more accepted.

The other interesting piece to all of this is whether LIV can get the next Scottie Scheffler or Collin Morikawa to join their tour rather than the PGA Tour. If you get the lifeblood, it would significantly damage the PGA Tour’s ability to offset it.
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Eugenio Chacarra, Oklahoma State star and No. 2 amateur in the world, signs with LIV Golf

This is what I meant in my statement above. If the PGA Tour starts losing out on the new rising stars, it’s curtains for them… may be a slow bleed. But you have to have the next big names in the sport. Very few people even knew who Hovland, Scheffler, Morikawa, Zalatoris, etc. were 4-5 years ago. PGA Tour can’t have top amateurs joining LIV tour and expect it to not majorly damage their brand. That risk is king in my opinion in the long run.
 
#16,650
#16,650
Volfan8282 said:
Eugenio Chacarra, Oklahoma State star and No. 2 amateur in the world, signs with LIV Golf

This is what I meant in my statement above. If the PGA Tour starts losing out on the new rising stars, it’s curtains for them… may be a slow bleed. But you have to have the next big names in the sport. Very few people even knew who Hovland, Scheffler, Morikawa, Zalatoris, etc. were 4-5 years ago. PGA Tour can’t have top amateurs joining LIV tour and expect it to not majorly damage their brand. That risk is king in my opinion in the long run.
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The John Deere classic has a loaded field this week.
 
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