The Golf Thread

#16,651
#16,651
Vols4us said:
Good to know this thread exists. Should have checked in before. Peay and I talk golf a bit in another forum. My two cents...

LIV will evolve as well as the PGA and Euro Tours. Personally could care less if LIV exists. I care about the PGA Tour. The path to golf stardom in America runs through the PGA Tour, its tradition, its courses, its community involvement. A money grab exhibition type goofy golf with SA backing is not what I care anything about watching. Which is why I do not follow the NBA anymore due to China and pansy style of play. But the players are free to do whatever. So am I.

I want the PGA Tour to succeed for similar reasons as the Euros, Japan, etc. want their tours to succeed. It impacts all of their people in positive ways. As a result, I want the Ryder Cup and the Presidents Cup to succeed. Minus respective non-tour member participation of course.

I do want the PGA Tour to remove the now non-members from the FedEx Cup points list. They are no longer members and the guys who are should move up the ranks accordingly. They chose to leave the tour that made them names and successful. Buh-bye. Should the tour decide to make peace at some point, which I hope never happens, they can be added back. I would rather see the young guns making their way up the ladder than the has-beens and wannabes who only have their bank accounts in mind. Some of the marginal tour guys who have struggled to stay exempt will now get in more tournaments and have the opportunity to improve.

In an unusual twist I agree with Nick Faldo. It's about the trophy. It's about winning the championships that golf greats before you won on great golf courses. Anything that waters that down I am against.
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The only trophies that matter are majors and Ryder/President’s cup. The majors will allow LIV and the big game hunters at the top of the LIV will still have their chance to hoist all but the Ryder and President’s cup trophies. Apart from that-money talks.
 
#16,652
#16,652
Volfan8282 said:
Eugenio Chacarra, Oklahoma State star and No. 2 amateur in the world, signs with LIV Golf

This is what I meant in my statement above. If the PGA Tour starts losing out on the new rising stars, it’s curtains for them… may be a slow bleed. But you have to have the next big names in the sport. Very few people even knew who Hovland, Scheffler, Morikawa, Zalatoris, etc. were 4-5 years ago. PGA Tour can’t have top amateurs joining LIV tour and expect it to not majorly damage their brand. That risk is king in my opinion in the long run.
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I’m not sure the PGA loses out since they still have a lot of great tournaments compared to what the LIV can field (especially the Hawaii through Memorial peak PGA tournaments). They also have PGA U and spots for developing guys that LIV won’t invest in as heavily. I think an equilibrium can be reached where PGA has the prime developing guys and 20-30 year olds who love the game and the Ryder/Prez cups and then LIV has a niche of 30-40’s guys who’ve made their mark on the tour and want to play less events and majors for more bucks at a lower risk of injury. I think both leagues can field a better viewing experience for fans in the long-run. The purists and ideologues can also continue to get their fill on the PGA only.
 
#16,653
#16,653
UTFanHades said:
I’m not sure the PGA loses out since they still have a lot of great tournaments compared to what the LIV can field (especially the Hawaii through Memorial peak PGA tournaments). They also have PGA U and spots for developing guys that LIV won’t invest in as heavily. I think an equilibrium can be reached where PGA has the prime developing guys and 20-30 year olds who love the game and the Ryder/Prez cups and then LIV has a niche of 30-40’s guys who’ve made their mark on the tour and want to play less events and majors for more bucks at a lower risk of injury. I think both leagues can field a better viewing experience for fans in the long-run. The purists and ideologues can also continue to get their fill on the PGA only.
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Time will tell for sure. But if the Saudis throw major money at the top 25 amateurs each year, I could see a bunch of them taking it rather than grinding it out on the Korn Ferry Tour and hoping to get their card.

My guess is that the PGA Tour won’t penalize them as much or at all and would allow them to play the PGA Tour in the future. They just can’t afford to lose out on future talent. Time keeps moving on, and we’ll look up one day and think McIlroy, Thomas, Spieth, etc. are mostly over the hill. That’s only 10 years away… not 20-30 years away. Who will fill their shoes? Gotta keep that line of new talent to have long-term success.

But plenty of smart folks at the PGA Tou even though they were clearly short-sighted and/or overconfident when it came to LIV. The changes they are starting to implement should’ve happened 5-10 years ago. They are playing defense now.
 
#16,656
#16,656
GAVol said:
That one has never been a marquis event. It's in the middle of nowhere and suffers from where it is on the schedule.
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True but there’s quite a few events just like it. Hate LIV or don’t but it’s still golf. Most people that complain about the format probably don’t sit and watch every minute of PGA Tour coverage which makes them a bit of a hypocrite. Like most of us we turn it on and watch it for awhile, do something else , them maybe catch the ending. Nobody has a clue who is going to contend or win for the first couple rounds but yet we watch it just to see good golf. Same for attending. If you buy tickets for a Thursday round you just want to see good golf and admire how the guys at that level play.
 
#16,657
#16,657
LIV will unfortunately probably continue to exist off the seemingly unlimited flow of money from Saudi Arabia, but except for DJ and maybe BK, there’s nothing to get excited about. And if you’re trying to compare it to the John Deere Classic, well, that speaks for itself.
 
#16,658
#16,658
WestTennesseeVol said:
LIV will unfortunately probably continue to exist off the seemingly unlimited flow of money from Saudi Arabia, but except for DJ and maybe BK, there’s nothing to get excited about. And if you’re trying to compare it to the John Deere Classic, well, that speaks for itself.
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Yet the PGA was able to scrape up an extra couple hundred million and add even more events. It’s almost like the players had legit complaints. Funny how they attempted to rectify one issue and doubled down on stupid with another. Lol. If you think there’s anything special about the John Deere Classic that definitely speaks volumes.
 
#16,659
#16,659
C-south said:
Yet the PGA was able to scrape up an extra couple hundred million and add even more events. It’s almost like the players had legit complaints. Funny how they attempted to rectify one issue and doubled down on stupid with another. Lol. If you think there’s anything special about the John Deere Classic that definitely speaks volumes.
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I never said they didn’t have legit complaints.

I never said there’s anything special about the John Deere Classic
 
#16,660
#16,660
I'll take the John Deere Classic over the best LIV has to offer every single day of the week. According to BK, Reed and Perez playing half the year is just too hard on them, their bodies, their family time and such. in essence they say give them a lot of money and they will grace you with their presence 8 times per year.

Meanwhile, 37 year old, 3 time winner and Knoxville resident Scott Stallings has a family, promotes the Kids Play Free in TN foundation, works with Vets, and is playing his 26th tourney of the current season. He's T2 playing in the final group going into Sunday at the Deere. Far more interesting story IMO. Credits going back to using his old irons with zero practice with them at the start of the Travelers. 6 straight rounds in the 60's. Says he wants to give back to others for all that golf has given him.

Sort of like the LIV guys. 😂
 
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#16,661
#16,661
Vols4us said:
I'll take the John Deere Classic over the best LIV has to offer every single day of the week. According to BK, Reed and Perez playing half the year is just too hard on them, their bodies, their family time and such. in essence they say give them a lot of money and they will grace you with their presence 8 times per year.

Meanwhile, 37 year old, 3 time winner and Knoxville resident Scott Stallings has a family, promotes the Kids Play Free in TN foundation, works with Vets, and is playing his 26th tourney of the current season. He's T2 playing in the final group going into Sunday at the Deere. Far more interesting story IMO. Credits going back to using his old irons with zero practice with them at the start of the Travelers. 6 straight rounds in the 60's. Says he wants to give back to others for all that golf has given him.

Sort of like the LIV guys. 😂
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Wonder if LIV has offered him?
 
#16,666
#16,666
I held my nose and watched a little bit of LIV (mostly because it was free on YouTube,) and it felt like someone combined golf, a frat party, and an e-sports tournament
 
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#16,668
#16,668
I have even less interest in watching the LIV than I do the PGA Tour. Watching golf in general is about like watching paint dry IMO. Golf is an order of magnitude more fun to play regardless of skill level than it is to watch.

Pretty much the only tournament I actually care to watch is the Masters. I will watch the final round of the other majors also.
 
#16,669
#16,669
Matt2496 said:
I have even less interest in watching the LIV than I do the PGA Tour. Watching golf in general is about like watching paint dry IMO. Golf is an order of magnitude more fun to play regardless of skill level than it is to watch.

Pretty much the only tournament I actually care to watch is the Masters. I will watch the final round of the other majors also.
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I used to hate watching golf (except for the Masters,) but having a kid gave me a new appreciation for it. I can turn it on and it’ll be on most of the day and I can pop in and out without missing too much. Most other sports, except maybe baseball, pretty much require your full attention.

Plus, I’ve found it really relaxing, especially if it’s been one of “those day”
 
#16,671
#16,671
What is funny about watching the LIV events is that they talk every 5 minutes about how much money the guys are playing for and the teams are playing for. That's a great sales pitch...to the players.

It's like they are telling us we should be entertained by this because of all the money that is at stake, which is an interesting argument. I don't think the viewing fan really cares how much they are making; they want to be entertained. Is it more entertaining to fans if the tournament purse is bigger than most PGA events? Does that really make a different to anybody?
 
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#16,672
#16,672
05_never_again said:
What is funny about watching the LIV events is that they talk every 5 minutes about how much money the guys are playing for and the teams are playing for. That's a great sales pitch...to the players.

It's like they are telling us we should be entertained by this because of all the money that is at stake, which is an interesting argument. I don't think the viewing fan really cares how much they are making; they want to be entertained. Is it more entertaining to fans if the tournament purse is bigger than most PGA events? Does that really make a different to anybody?
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No
 
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#16,673
#16,673
Rory, JT and now, Tiger, speak their minds about LIV.

Tiger: LIV players 'turned their back' on PGA Tour

I'm with them.

Like several of y'all - I don't enjoy watching golf when the only real motivation for the pros os to play for money. Tradition, winning at historic and/or great venues, competing against the best, watching the young guns make their way - that's my motivation to follow it.
 
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#16,674
#16,674
Vols4us said:
Rory, JT and now, Tiger, speak their minds about LIV.

Tiger: LIV players 'turned their back' on PGA Tour

I'm with them.

Like several of y'all - I don't enjoy watching golf when the only real motivation for the pros os to play for money. Tradition, winning at historic and/or great venues, competing against the best, watching the young guns make their way - that's my motivation to follow it.
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Meh. LIV is just as good as the average pga tour event and acting like money is the sole factor is being willfully ignorant. The pga tour will be the ones that will regret their obstinance in the end.
 
#16,675
#16,675
Vols4us said:
Rory, JT and now, Tiger, speak their minds about LIV.

Tiger: LIV players 'turned their back' on PGA Tour

I'm with them.

Like several of y'all - I don't enjoy watching golf when the only real motivation for the pros os to play for money. Tradition, winning at historic and/or great venues, competing against the best, watching the young guns make their way - that's my motivation to follow it.
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I don't really care what the motivation of the players is. If they are playing golf mostly for money, that does not bother me. What motivates a player to play and what motivates a fan to watch/care can be (and usually are) different things. If the winner of the Masters won nothing, or if the winner of the Masters won $50 million and the field that showed up was there because they wanted a shot at that prize, that would not increase or decrease my enjoyment of the tournament one iota.

LIV does not lack entertainment value because the guys on it are playing purely for money. It doesn't lack entertainment value because it is "artificially constructed" (all sports league are artificially constructed). It doesn't even necessarily lack entertainment value because there is no tradition. The Masters lacked tradition in its infancy, but that did not detract from it. Tradition is certainly a huge part of the appeal of a tournament like The Masters today, but The Masters also had a lot of appeal when it debuted and had no history or tradition as a tournament.

It lacks entertainment value because of a couple of the reasons you mentioned - they are not playing at highly notable/great courses for the most part, and it is not a group of the best players in the world all playing against each other. Marginal events on the PGA Tour lack entertainment value for the same reason, which is why they are screwed if the majors (which they do not control) continue to allow LIV members to play in them.

LIV is analogous to a situation where if some good (but also lots of average to below average) college football players left their schools and created a brand new football league that paid them. Brand new teams, played in different stadiums, etc. IMO, such a league would lack entertainment value not because the guys got paid, but because not all the best college players would be in it and the fan experience would be totally different.
 
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