The GOP's last chance

#51
#51
JayVols said:
What? Of course they would pay more, but it would be at least the same percentage. No disrespect, but I get the feeling that you wouldn't be satisfied until there are no taxes.
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who the hell wants to pay more taxes? of course i want them as low as possible.
 
#52
#52
rjd970 said:
Given the money paid to lobbyiests and special interest, I don't totally agree that those who pay the least benefit the most. The wealthy benefit quite well with how the system works.
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the simple fact that the rich have to pay off these people to get things done is an example of a broken system. i shouldn't have to "lobby" to open a business.
 
#53
#53
droski said:
bill gates created tens of thousands of jobs at the least. bill gates is giving away the vast majority of his wealth. society has benefited more from bill gates than bill gates himself.

i think it's sad that people expect other people to pay for their obligations.
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It isn't hard Droski. Wtihout be born into this system, no way Bill Gates is a billionaire, even with his money being give away.

I don't like people living off the government teet either, but saying the wealthy doesn't benefit from this system, or even less so than those on welfare is absolutely absurd.
 
#55
#55
rjd970 said:
It isn't hard Droski. Wtihout be born into this system, no way Bill Gates is a billionaire, even with his money being give away.

I don't like people living off the government teet either, but saying the wealthy doesn't benefit from this system, or even less so than those on welfare is absolutely absurd.
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Well said.
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#56
#56
droski said:
the simple fact that the rich have to pay off these people to get things done is an example of a broken system. i shouldn't have to "lobby" to open a business.
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I'm talking things like tax loopholes and no bid contracts for favorites, pot being illegal while cigarettes and alchohol aren't. If that is needed to open a business then capitalism is broke.
 
#57
#57
#58
#58
rjd970 said:
It isn't hard Droski. Wtihout be born into this system, no way Bill Gates is a billionaire, even with his money being give away.

I don't like people living off the government teet either, but saying the wealthy doesn't benefit from this system, or even less so than those on welfare is absolutely absurd.
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the "system" doesn't cost me money. welfare does. if bill gates is getting rich because his fairy godmother created billions out of nothing it's no skin off my back.

JayVols said:
First off, without govt, corporations would not have a structured society in which to function.
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the cost of said structure is far less than the revenue generated.
 
#59
#59
droski said:
the simple fact that the rich have to pay off these people to get things done is an example of a broken system. i shouldn't have to "lobby" to open a business.
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It was never the "poor" who were lobbying to begin with.
 
#60
#60
rjd970 said:
I'm talking things like tax loopholes and no bid contracts for favorites, pot being illegal while cigarettes and alchohol aren't. If that is needed to open a business then capitalism is broke.
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i have no problem eliminating these things. maximum tax rates aren't relavant to you smoking pot legally. the overwelmign majority of people that obama considers rich aren't getting rich because they own a company and are paying off congress. they are working. just like you and i.

therealUT said:
Pictures of Bill Gates House A large mansion | Corporate Talk

Bill Gates has benefited more than "society".
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having a nice house is worth more than thousands of people providing a living for their family and tens of thousands of children not dying in africa?
 
#61
#61
droski said:
the "system" doesn't cost me money. welfare does. if bill gates is getting rich because his fairy godmother created billions out of nothing it's no skin off my back.



the cost of said structure is far less than the revenue generated.
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Pipe dreams are nice. Saying no government is best is as bad as one that wants govt to provide everything.
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#62
#62
JayVols said:
Pipe dreams are nice. Saying no government is best is as bad as one that wants govt to provide everything.
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who said no government is best? limited govt is best certainly, but i don't object to courts and laws.
 
#64
#64
droski said:
having a nice house is worth more than thousands of people providing a living for their family and tens of thousands of children not dying in africa?
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That Gates' Foundation does excellent work; however, the benefits they provide do not provide anywhere near the leisure and luxury that Gates enjoys. The benefits sustain life for a few years, that is it.
 
#65
#65
therealUT said:
That Gates' Foundation does excellent work; however, the benefits they provide do not provide anywhere near the leisure and luxury that Gates enjoys. The benefits sustain life for a few years, that is it.
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thousands living who would not live otherwise is not anywhere near one man's luxury? strange values here.
 
#66
#66
droski said:
thousands living who would not live otherwise is not anywhere near one man's luxury? strange values here.
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Twenty to fifty years suffering through life in subSaharan Africa does not equal a lifetime of wealth and luxury in America; not even close.
 
#67
#67
droski said:
who said no government is best? limited govt is best certainly, but i don't object to courts and laws.
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Ok let me rephrase. There is a price to be paid to live in a modern society. Your position sounds like you want the benefits of that society without having to pay that price. Seems like that position is similar to the position a career welfare recipient would take.
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#68
#68
JayVols said:
Ok let me rephrase. There is a price to be paid to live in a modern society. Your position sounds like you want the benefits of that society without having to pay that price. Sounds like that position is similar to the position a career welfare recipient would take.
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not at all. I want the ability to earn my living and provide for my family and realize there is a price to pay for that right. I don't agree with paying for much of the other crap that has been thrown in with it
 
#69
#69
JayVols said:
Ok let me rephrase. There is a price to be paid to live in a modern society. Your position sounds like you want the benefits of that society without having to pay that price. Seems like that position is similar to the position a career welfare recipient would take.
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what? no i want to pay for what i receive. not for what 50 other people receive as well.
 
#70
#70
utvolpj said:
not at all. I want the ability to earn my living and provide for my family and realize there is a price to pay for that right. I don't agree with paying for much of the other crap that has been thrown in with it
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Ok. List what you are willing to pay for and what you aren't, please.
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#71
#71
JayVols said:
Ok let me rephrase. There is a price to be paid to live in a modern society. Your position sounds like you want the benefits of that society without having to pay that price. Seems like that position is similar to the position a career welfare recipient would take.
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So do you think your taxes should be increased right now?

This is inline with droski's earlier point that no one commented on - if there is no meaningful debt reduction by taxing the wealthy without imposing tax increases on everyone else, why impose them just on the wealthy?
 
#72
#72
you seem to be arguing we should tax people for things that are completely unquantifiable. what's the dollar amount that pays my benefit from "american society" over someone making $100k less? it's a ridiculous argument.
 
#73
#73
droski said:
what? no i want to pay for what i receive. not for what 50 other people receive as well.
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Pipe dream. Don't get me wrong, I loathe our current welfare system as well, but what would the ramifications be to you if you only paid for what you used? You really think your taxes would be lower if you were able to pay as you go without some degree of pooled resources?
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#74
#74
droski said:
what? no i want to pay for what i receive. not for what 50 other people receive as well.
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The entire history of governing societies demonstrates that one of the fundamental purposes of government is to pool money together in order to pay for things that not every individual will directly receive a benefit from.
 
#75
#75
vols4sure said:
So do you think your taxes should be increased right now?

This is inline with droski's earlier point that no one commented on - if there is no meaningful debt reduction by taxing the wealthy without imposing tax increases on everyone else, why impose them just on the wealthy?
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I would be willing to do so to get back on financial stability. Doesn't mean I would like it, but sometimes you gotta do what you've gotta do.
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