The Grand Irony - college football is socialist

#76
#76
utgibbs said:
However, I didn't make a mistake about UTAD being a socialist institution. The BoT is a representative governing body. It does not distribute funds to shareholders. It is still a socialist institution. :hi:
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First of all, in any political system save anarchy, there is a representative body. The fact that the BoT is a representative body is not EXCLUSIVE to socialism, and is not a marker for socialism in any way shape or form. It encompasses nearly all political ideologies.

Furthermore, who do you think the "shareholders" at UT are, and how does one go about investing in UT? In addition, what makes you think that a company has to issue stock in order to not be a socialist group? Just which neuron is firing in that gray matter that leads you to believe such?
 
#77
#77
fl0at said:
First of all, in any political system save anarchy, there is a representative body. The fact that the BoT is a representative body is not EXCLUSIVE to socialism, and is not a marker for socialism in any way shape or form. It encompasses nearly all political ideologies.

Furthermore, who do you think the "shareholders" at UT are, and how does one go about investing in UT? In addition, what makes you think that a company has to issue stock in order to not be a socialist group? Just which neuron is firing in that gray matter that leads you to believe such?
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To me, the fact he's still hung up on this land-grant thing proves he doesn't have a clue.

What does the government giving some land 100 years ago to start an ag school have with it operating under socialism? If your dad gives you some land and you put a gas station on it, you're not socialist because the land was given to you.
 
#78
#78
fl0at said:
First of all, in any political system save anarchy, there is a representative body. The fact that the BoT is a representative body is not EXCLUSIVE to socialism, and is not a marker for socialism in any way shape or form. It encompasses nearly all political ideologies.

Furthermore, who do you think the "shareholders" at UT are, and how does one go about investing in UT? In addition, what makes you think that a company has to issue stock in order to not be a socialist group? Just which neuron is firing in that gray matter that leads you to believe such?
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Precisely. :hi:
 
#79
#79
jwells said:
To me, the fact he's still hung up on this land-grant thing proves he doesn't have a clue.

What does the government giving some land 100 years ago to start an ag school have with it operating under socialism? If your dad gives you some land and you put a gas station on it, you're not socialist because the land was given to you.
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jwells, the land-grant fact alone would makes the institution today, at best, a funky hybrid of socialism and capitalism.

However, all the information distributed by float has pointed to it being a fully socialist institution. UTAD might make money without the taxpayer (I haven't looked at Hambone's funky accounting - but without a doubt a significant revenue stream comes from tax breaks), but that is irrelevant. Some of the biggest brands in the world are or have been fully owned by governments and have made money for decades. Who, for instance, does UTAD give its "profits" to?

And finally, just to put this profit thing to bed, I believe UTAD is one of the few ADs in the country actually making a profit (although I worry about Hambone Accounting). In most institutions, I don't believe they do - certainly not without a revenue stream of tax deductible donations.
 
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#80
#80
Man you went way out there with this deal. I thought maybe you were making a comparison to the SEC revenue sharing thing, but now it's just ridiculous.
 
#81
#81
utgibbs said:
Precisely. :hi:
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You apparently missed this part: In addition, what makes you think that a company has to issue stock in order to not be a socialist group?

You do realize there are many LLCs, privately owned businesses and the like that do not offer stock, right?
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#82
#82
utgibbs said:
However, all the information distributed by float has pointed to it being a fully socialist .

And finally, just to put this profit thing to bed, I believe UTAD is one of the few ADs in the country actually making a profit (although I worry about Hambone Accounting). In most institutions, I don't believe they do - certainly not without a revenue stream of tax deductible donations.
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First of all, please provide evidence that (a) supports your conclusion that most institutions have athletic departments in debt and (b) tax deductions from charitable donations are specific to socialism.

As to the first quote, many might take that with a grain of salt as you just being you. I, however, do not. I find it pretentious, dishonest and above all intellectually insulting. Every statement you have made has been made with absolutely no understanding of political philosophy and a gross reading comprehension deficiency, as evident by your BoT slip, and Webster'a dictionary definition of socialism.

Please provide the above asked for information or gracefully bow out and recant your asinine assertion. This is my direct challenge to you.
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#83
#83
fl0at said:
First of all, please provide evidence that (a) supports your conclusion that most institutions have athletic departments in debt and (b) tax deductions from charitable donations are specific to socialism.

As to the first quote, many might take that with a grain of salt as you just being you. I, however, do not. I find it pretentious, dishonest and above all intellectually insulting. Every statement you have made has been made with absolutely no understanding of political philosophy and a gross reading comprehension deficiency, as evident by your BoT slip, and Webster'a dictionary definition of socialism.

Please provide the above asked for information or gracefully bow out and recant your asinine assertion. This is my direct challenge to you.
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float, I've tried to give you space in this debate to have your say, BUT, obviously I do have a good command "understanding of political philosophy."

EVERYTHING you have posted links confirms UTAD as a socialist institution. You have failed to demonstrate you have a command of political philosophy.

Simple questions:

1. Who owns the University of Tennessee? It's NOT an LLC. It's not "privately owned," is it? Shareholders was my way of driving home a point for your benefit.

2. Who is chair of the BoT?

3. Where do the UTAD profits go?

4. Are donations to the UTAD tax deductible? If the answer is yes, than a large portion of UTAD revenue comes directly from TAX DOLLARS.

Please provide the above asked for information or gracefully bow out and recant your asinine assertion. This is my direct challenge to you.
 
#84
#84
utgibbs said:
float, I've tried to give you space in this debate to have your say, BUT, obviously I do have a good command "understanding of political philosophy."

EVERYTHING you have posted links confirms UTAD as a socialist institution. You have failed to demonstrate you have a command of political philosophy.

Simple questions:

4. Are donations to the UTAD tax deductible? If the answer is yes, than a large portion of UTAD revenue comes directly from TAX DOLLARS.

Please provide the above asked for information or gracefully bow out and recant your asinine assertion. This is my direct challenge to you.
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These donations are made as a subsidy more than anything. Same as for any other group. If I'm giving my money to someone, it's going to go to the people I want to help, NOT to the government to spread amongst the masses. Individuals choose how to spend their money. As an incentive for higher education, the government allows them to be tax deductible. College football is not socialist because of tax-deductible donations.

UTAD has no sole private owner, but it sure as hell isn't publicly owned. It's not some athletic co-op.
 
#85
#85
jwells said:
These donations are made as a subsidy more than anything. Same as for any other group. If I'm giving my money to someone, it's going to go to the people I want to help, NOT to the government to spread amongst the masses. Individuals choose how to spend their money. As an incentive for higher education, the government allows them to be tax deductible. College football is not socialist because of tax-deductible donations.

UTAD has no sole private owner, but it sure as hell isn't publicly owned. (wrong)It's not some athletic co-op.
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The fact is, without the tax rebate, that revenue stream would be MUCH reduced. Call it a subsidy, it doesn't matter. The BBC makes a hell of a lot of money, but it is still subsidized by the taxpayer. No one suggests its not a socialist institution (and, by the way, a far superior product to any commercial channel on this side or that side of the Atlantic).

I want to know how owns the University of Tennessee.

You say it's not owned by the state. Who owns it then? Funny the governor is always on the BoT. Doubt he can serve on the board of any private company....
 
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#86
#86
utgibbs said:
Simple questions:

1. Who owns the University of Tennessee? It's NOT an LLC. It's not "privately owned," is it? Shareholders was my way of driving home a point for your benefit.

2. Who is chair of the BoT?

3. Where do the UTAD profits go?

4. Are donations to the UTAD tax deductible? If the answer is yes, than a large portion of UTAD revenue comes directly from TAX DOLLARS.

Please provide the above asked for information or gracefully bow out and recant your asinine assertion. This is my direct challenge to you.
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I notice that you did not answer my questions, but instead grandstanded about your vast knowledge. EVERYTHING you have posted confirms that utgibbs is pretentious. We can accept it as a foregone conclusion at this point and put it to bed.

I will, however, answer your questions:

#1. Who owns the University of Tennessee? It's NOT an LLC. It's not "privately owned," is it?

UT is "owned" by the University of Tennessee, and controlled by the BoT. The State of Tennessee does not "own" the University, which is why it has its own police department and own jurisdiction, is free to set its own prices and bylaws.

Your point about shareholders has zero standing. Who are the shareholders of the Federal government? Who are the shareholders of Saudi Arabi, or the Vatican? That there are none does not imply socialism in any way shape for form.

#2. Bylaws, Article 1, Section 4: "(a) The Chair and Vice Chair shall be members of the Board and shall be elected by the Board at the annual meeting to serve for two years, beginning July 1 of the year elected."

There is no current chair at this time, to my knowledge. The odds are very good that Haslam will be elected as chair, but that is not required by any means.

#3. The UTAD profits go to the AD, much in the same way that ESPN's profits go to ESPN.

#4. Donations are tax deductible, but that is not the same as "from tax dollars." Taxes are a percentage of your income. Tax deductions allow you to reduce the income taxes.

In other words, if you work and make $1500, that $1500 is your money through your work. Tax dollars to the government would be the percentage of that $1500. The deduction allows you to reduce your income to, we'll say $1400, such that the tax dollars given is only a percentage of the $1400.

Gifts are not tax dollars that went to the government and then trickled down. The deduction is the same as if you never worked for that amount deducted.

And it is, again, not a part of socialism.

Now, I have done you the courtesy of answering your questions, you may now do so to mine.
 
#87
#87
so, gibbs started out with the specious claim that UT football is a socialist institution and now he's moved on to the equally specious claim that the entire UT system is somehow socialist.

what's next, the US Marine Corps (pronounced "core") is a socialist construct?
 
#88
#88
fl0at said:
First of all, in any political system save anarchy, there is a representative body. The fact that the BoT is a representative body is not EXCLUSIVE to socialism, and is not a marker for socialism in any way shape or form. It encompasses nearly all political ideologies.

Furthermore, who do you think the "shareholders" at UT are, and how does one go about investing in UT? In addition, what makes you think that a company has to issue stock in order to not be a socialist group? Just which neuron is firing in that gray matter that leads you to believe such?
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1. There are no "shareholders" at UT...because it is a public institution.

2. It certainly does not. But if it is owned by the government, it ain't private.

3. I used "shareholders" in hopes you could get your head around the obvious. I know they don't have any shareholders. I know you don't have to issue stock to be privately owned. But it is equally clear how confused you are on the political philosophy.

And your post answering my questions, once again, demonstrates UTAD is a socialist institution.
 
#90
#90
utgibbs said:
1. There are no "shareholders" at UT...because it is a public institution.

2. It certainly does not. But if it is owned by the government, it ain't private.

3. I used "shareholders" in hopes you could get your head around the obvious. I know they don't have any shareholders. I know you don't have to issue stock to be privately owned. But it is equally clear how confused you are on the political philosophy.

And your post answering my questions, once again, demonstrates UTAD is a socialist institution.
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1. And how does that make it socialist, pray tell? Again, there are several political ideologies where there are zero shareholders, public institutions and the like.

2. I will quote for you a portion of the Principals of the Socialist Party of the US:

Socialist Party USA said:
Socialism is not mere government ownership, a welfare state, or a repressive bureaucracy. Socialism is a new social and economic order in which workers and consumers control production and community residents control their neighborhoods, homes, and schools.
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3. And what is the obvious? Please, break it down.

And your post proves my point, gibbs.
 
#91
#91
how can UT be socialist if there are different achievement levels among the graduates?

a true socialist institution wouldn't have Cum Laude, Summa Cum Laude, or Magna Cum Laude graduates. Socialism removes all ability/will to achieve at the expense of uniformity of thought, effort and results.
 
#92
#92
MG1968 said:
so, gibbs started out with the specious claim that UT football is a socialist institution and now he's moved on to the equally specious claim that the entire UT system is somehow socialist.

what's next, the US Marine Corps (pronounced "core") is a socialist construct?
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:facepalm:

The US military is the ultimate socialist institution in the country!

I almost can't be bothered any more, so I'll just play the trump card:

http://president.tennessee.edu/docs/Annual_Report_09.pdf

Game, Set, and Match.
 
#93
#93
MG1968 said:
how can UT be socialist if there are different achievement levels among the graduates?

a true socialist institution wouldn't have Cum Laude, Summa Cum Laude, or Magna Cum Laude graduates. Socialism removes all ability/will to achieve at the expense of uniformity of thought, effort and results.
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You are thinking communism again.
 
#95
#95
where does your trump card discuss athletics? You keep claiming GSM without realizing we're actually playing basketball

utgibbs said:
Enlighten me.

That's what I asked in the OP.
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it's actually more entertaining to just laugh. You're the one who came in with a ridiculous assumption and now claim you are just wanting info. Plenty already in this thread that you've ignored
 
#96
#96
utvolpj said:
where does your trump card discuss athletics? You keep claiming GSM without realizing we're actually playing basketball



it's actually more entertaining to just laugh. You're the one who came in with a ridiculous assumption and now claim you are just wanting info. Plenty already in this thread that you've ignored
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Nice retreat before getting hammered. You've proven wiser than your usual in doing so. :hi:
 
#98
#98
utvolpj said:
hammered by what? Why don't you answer my last question about your "trump card"?
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If the "financials" of the university weren't enough, perhaps reading Prez Simek's notes on page 2 would suffice?

Riddle me this - who owns UTAD?

Why won't anyone answer the question???

Oh, right....

Game, Set, and Match.
 
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