The Green New Deal

#26
#26
Stew Cook said:
You know.. It's a glass 1/100th full type thing. This thread will have no shortage of criticism. Call me Mr. Brightside.
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You asked specifics, I answered. You can say "yeah, there are some WTF moments in there" along with the rest of us.

Regardless, a "mobilization" like WWII and trying to pull this off in 10 years is impossible. Period. Unless you really want to break into government default realms.
 
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#27
#27
Grand Vol said:
You asked specifics, I answered. You can say "yeah, there are some WTF moments in there" along with the rest of us.

Regardless, a "mobilization" like WWII and trying to pull this off in 10 years is impossible. Period. Unless you really want to break into government default realms.
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I added a little to my response, but I'm not gonna say this is a viable plan.
 
#28
#28
Stew Cook said:
You know.. It's a glass 1/100th full type thing. This thread will have no shortage of criticism. Call me Mr. Brightside.

I'll have to dig a little deeper into this when I have the time, but really, it's not likely to go very far, as is.
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The major DNC Candidates for 2020 have already announced their support.

I'd suspect the play for the union jobs in there is a reminder they lost a lot of union votes in 2016 to Trump. That's like tossing a steak at a group of lions.
 
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#30
#30
Grand Vol said:
The major DNC Candidates for 2020 have already announced their support.

I'd suspect the play for the union jobs in there is a reminder they lost a lot of union votes in 2016 to Trump. That's like tossing a steak at a group of lions.
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I'd give it more credence, if it were named "A Path to Utopia"
 
#32
#32
Orange_Vol1321 said:
It would take hundreds of years to meet our needs using green energy.
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One interesting thing is that people are lining up in the streets to claim all our current energy sources are detrimental to the environment. However, none of them has apparently mentioned even in passing that widespread wind power might change wind and weather patterns by removing energy from prevailing air currents or that the effect of widespread solar power could affect climate by changing the absorbed vs reflected energy (the ground tends to retain heat far differently than air). The first law of thermodynamics basically says that you can't get something for nothing - and it's not the cost of the equipment under consideration.
 
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#34
#34
hog88 said:
I think this bill does a good job of summing up what man-made global warming is really all about.

Well done AOC.
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I thought the exact same thing. When you reading the intro - all the "Whereas" - the economic/social goals (collectivist, redistributionist-type policies) just meld together with the scientific ones (lowering the rise of the oceans).

Also, the term "climate denier" means "disagrees with my socialist economic vision on how to stop climate change."
 
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#36
#36
05_never_again said:
I thought the exact same thing. When you reading the intro - all the "Whereas" - the economic/social goals (collectivist, redistributionist-type policies) just meld together with the scientific ones (lowering the rise of the oceans).

Also, the term "climate denier" means "disagrees with my socialist economic vision on how to stop climate change."
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I wish one person would ask her just off the cuff how much seal levels would rise if the entire arctic ice cap melted.
 
#41
#41
Here's a linked to a Forbes article on how awesome shutting down nuclear, and transitioning to "renewables alone," worked in Vermont.

*Spoiler*--it resulted in increased carbon emissions.
 
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#42
#42
Grand Vol said:
I'll name a few I like and a few WTF moments:

building or upgrading to energy-efficient, distributed, and ‘‘smart’’ power grids, and working to ensure affordable access to electricity
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I'm in.
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Have to disagree with you on that one. For example, I can't see one location providing subsidized power to another. Tennessee has had lower power rates than many places because of hydro power, Tennessee doesn't have some advantages of locations with ocean access, and Tennessee hasn't blown up dams so the salmon can roam free. Strengths and weakness determine local economies, and I don't agree with increasing electric power costs in some regions to subsidize CA flakiness and overpopulation, as an example. It's supply and demand; why sell power to TN customers at $4/unit
when you can sell it elsewhere for $6/unit ... depriving TN of industry for that in higher cost but less energy sufficient areas?

There are (and always will be) high losses in the transmission of electric power over long lines. If one region can't produce power, it doesn't make a lot of sense to ineffectively move electric power there at the cost to the detriment of industry and other economic factors elsewhere. If you can't build cars in CA because of power and other constraints, build them elsewhere ... economic factors have to outweigh overcrowded beaches.

One thing we are proving on a daily basis is the danger of hacking by both people for fun and games and foreign interests for far more sinister purposes. If your local electric utility can turn off your power, so can the Chinese. If regional power distributors can wheel and deal power, so can the Russians. It's a risky game, and not one we should be putting all our eggs in.
 
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#43
#43
Wafflestomper said:
Here's a linked to a Forbes article on how awesome shutting down nuclear, and transitioning to "renewables alone," worked in Vermont.

*Spoiler*--it resulted in increased carbon emissions.
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No it didn't. In Vermont, they didn't produce their own power, thereby reducing their emissions. They bought energy from outside the state, but since it was from Quebec or NY, it didn't go down as Vermont's problems. Typical .gov 'accounting'.

Kind of like saying if I don't drive my car anymore but Uber everywhere, MY carbon emissions go to zero.
 
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#47
#47
The good news is, the Dims have proven they have lost their minds and have no chance of winning anything in 2020.
 
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#48
#48
SpaceCoastVol said:
No it didn't. In Vermont, they didn't produce their own power, thereby reducing their emissions. They bought energy from outside the state, but since it was from Quebec or NY, it didn't go down as Vermont's problems. Typical .gov 'accounting'.

Kind of like saying if I don't drive my car anymore but Uber everywhere, MY carbon emissions go to zero.
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From the article I posted:

"In 2005, Vermont legislators promised to reduce emissions 25% below 1990 levels by 2012, and 50% below 1990 levels by 2028, through the use of renewables and energy efficiency only.

What’s happened since? Vermont’s emissions rose 16.3%. That’s more than twice as much as national emissions rose during the same period."
 
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#49
#49
Wafflestomper said:
Here's a linked to a Forbes article on how awesome shutting down nuclear, and transitioning to "renewables alone," worked in Vermont.

*Spoiler*--it resulted in increased carbon emissions.
Click to expand...
Nuclear power is pretty clean energy..its just steam turning turbines..the whole potential nuclear disaster part I think it was frightens people..
 
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#50
#50
Wafflestomper said:
From the article I posted:

"In 2005, Vermont legislators promised to reduce emissions 25% below 1990 levels by 2012, and 50% below 1990 levels by 2028, through the use of renewables and energy efficiency only.

What’s happened since? Vermont’s emissions rose 16.3%. That’s more than twice as much as national emissions rose during the same period."
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Did they import a ton of cows to increase their cheese production?
 
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