The Health Care Debate is OVER

[hohenfelsvol]

Post all the charts you want. They will never prove that healthcare is not a market because it is by definition a market. Arrow asserted that market mechanisms may not result in the most efficient allocation of resources. He was NOT saying that HC is not a market. It is and always will be - even with the good ole NHS.

Not sure why this is so hard.

You know why

 

[milohimself]

so you think if we had "subsidized" healthcare we'd be thinner?

No.
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[sjt18]

Being fat is part of the health outcome.


Citizens of all EU countries, on average, live longer than people in the US.

Can you cite proof for that? Remember life expetancy is NOT the same as lifespan.

They have far healthier babies than in the US.

For this and your previous point, adjust for demographics then let us know how they compare.

And before you start typing up your response, I am not nor have I ever advocated for any significant degree of socialized health care. Partially subsidized -- yes. Socialized, no.

However you pay for it or structure it... the only way it can be fixed is when personal decisions cost people personally. You can do that through rationing boards... you can do it through lifestyle based premiums... you can probably get it done in other ways. But until the consumer begins to make the value decision in the market again... costs are not going to be contained with out some sort of top down, freedom suppressing system.

 

[sjt18]

Agree. As much as we, as a country, have this deep-seeded fear of someone else getting a free pass - we may currently have the laziest country in the world.

Part of it... the other part burns the candle at both ends trying to support everyone... They work 12-14 hour days. They hustle and scrap for everything they get.

They're the types that show up at TP rallies and reject the idea that they aren't taxed enough. They're also the type that leftist routinely mock for being unsophisticated, stupid conservatives.

 

[droski]

No.
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Not understanding your point then.
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[KiffinKiller]

Part of it... the other part burns the candle at both ends trying to support everyone... They work 12-14 hour days. They hustle and scrap for everything they get.

They're the types that show up at TP rallies and reject the idea that they aren't taxed enough. They're also the type that leftist routinely mock for being unsophisticated, stupid conservatives.

Illegal immigrants, imo.

 

[sjt18]

Illegal immigrants, imo.

You might be surprised that I would include at least those I've seen in that group.

Illegal or not... the group I had working for me at one time did easily twice the work for less money than the English (well sorta) speaking temps we got from inside the ATL perimeter.

I want to see people come legally but I am all for having more hard working people with good family values and ambitious hopes for themselves and their children.

 

[myrobbins7]

I guess the shovels couldn't find it's way to the dirt for this project also huh? Just pass the bill so we can see what's in it.. "the health care overhaul would create four million jobs over the course of "it's life," and 400,000 jobs "almost immediately."

Where are the 400,000 new jobs promised by Pelosi?

 

[KiffinKiller]

This is a huge problem in blue collar work. Many illegals/immigrants will gladly do the work for appropriate pay - just happy to feed their families. Americans have grown spoiled/accustomed to getting payed twice as much as they should for staring at an assembly line.

 

[golfballs]

Doctor And AMA Split Over Contentious Issue Of ObamaCare - Forbes

If it's so good, why do so many doctors oppose it?

 

[champyvol]

And by pretending the 10 or so people who post here and disagree with me = what the "real world" thinks is even more ridiculous than your posts on the football forum.

it is because they are republicans, NOT AMERICANS.

 

[theFallGuy]

Being fat is part of the health outcome.


Citizens of all EU countries, on average, live longer than people in the US. They have far healthier babies than in the US. They lose far less productivity due to illness. In many countries, they get similar or better quality of healthcare with similar or better expediency and similar or better rates of insurance rejection than the vast majority of Americans with private insurance. Advertising by pharmaceutical companies is actually banned in every country in the world except the US and New Zealand, IIRC.

The fact is that there are a number of countries out there with far more socialized medical care industries that do deliver much better health outcomes and overall have far healthier populations than the US, but again, that has to do with much more than delivery. And considering the 40-50million uninsured here prior to the ACA taking full effect, yes, more socialist healthcare delivery systems do work better for the average person. If you live here, you can afford it and you don't have any significant pre-existing conditions and a spotless health background, yeah, you get the best care in the world. But it's not the average or the norm.

And before you start typing up your response, I am not nor have I ever advocated for any significant degree of socialized health care. Partially subsidized -- yes. Socialized, no.

Yeah and right now Europe is broke. Greece, Spain, italy, England... Correlation or coincidence?

 

[BigPapaVol]

it is because they are republicans, NOT AMERICANS.

Because nothing says Americana like poorly organized, government run bureaucratic bullshiz boondoggles.
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[KiffinKiller]

Because nothing says Americana like poorly organized, government run bureaucratic bullshiz boondoggles.
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this. When I think of America, I think of a never-ending bureaucratic stairway to mediocrity.

 

[theFallGuy]

this. When I think of America, I think of a never-ending bureaucratic stairway to mediocrity.

Well we can't have people being better than others. That would hurt some peoples feelings.

 

[golfballs]

because as Americans our feelings are so important

 

[KiffinKiller]

They are now. The LBGT alliance is demanding some hockey player apologize for saying *** during a game. ZOMG this is so important.

 

[theFallGuy]

I'd tell them to **** off. When did we become such pansies and bend over to abunch of cross dressers?