The Jarrett Guarantano debate thread...

[sjt18]

the anti-JG guys:

on our running game sucking......."the oline is terrible"

on JG getting hit so much........"JG is terrible"

that about sums it up

Yes. That just about sums up the lie that you guys love to tell yourselves rather than have an honest conversation about the team that includes the weaknesses of EVERYONE.

And if you were the "expert" you pretend to be... you'd know that an OL can in fact be worse or even "terrible" at one thing and better or even good at the other.

 

[sjt18]

I use vouched for JT shrout to get more snaps but in saying that I honestly believe JG hasn't been able to show his full potential due to the lack of good offensive line play in front of him.

Or... the OL hasn't been able to show their full potential due to the lack of good QB play.... so easy just to throw guys under the bus by blaming one or the other, huh?

It isn't either or. It is both. JG needs to improve. OL needs to improve. For that matter, one of the back ups needs to improve enough to push JG some. JG needs it. If JG gets hurt the Vols will need one of them to play well.

 

[FLVOL_79]

well feel free to post anti-articles

Thats now how this works hoss. However, you don't need anti JG articles when you have stats, real, tangible stats.. And no..I'm not talking about "big time throws" (lol) or weighted time of possession during a harvest moon while Jupiter and its moons are visible... 4-8 and 5-7 ring a bell? Sub .500 career. Average 0.8 TD a game career.

 

[photovol]

This is all the proof I need that JG can turn into a great QB. If the O-Line can protect him he can and will have a special season imo.

I agree, If.....

 

[lexkyvol]

When JG makes a bad pass, or makes another bad read. Who do you blame?


Someone Vol fans are so happy to have a QB like JG, that they will not fault him for anything. Blame someone else. Sounds very familiar

bad passes and reads usually result in interceptions. how many has he thrown btw? and then there are those drops that would increase already decent numbers. but you're right.

 

[lexkyvol]

Lol...let me know when you find the definition on the stat sheet.

well completion percentage is def on there........but to you even that is inflated somehow so what would be the use?

 

[lexkyvol]

Or... the OL hasn't been able to show their full potential due to the lack of good QB play.... so easy just to throw guys under the bus by blaming one or the other, huh?

It isn't either or. It is both. JG needs to improve. OL needs to improve. For that matter, one of the back ups needs to improve enough to push JG some. JG needs it. If JG gets hurt the Vols will need one of them to play well.

yeah, them not being able to run block is the qbs fault. un-phukin-believable

 

[lexkyvol]

Thats now how this works hoss. However, you don't need anti JG articles when you have stats, real, tangible stats.. And no..I'm not talking about "big time throws" (lol) or weighted time of possession during a harvest moon while Jupiter and its moons are visible... 4-8 and 5-7 ring a bell? Sub .500 career. Average 0.8 TD a game career.

So.......no qbs ever came from losing teams and were great? Wins and losses are completely the responsibility of the qb? How much more you wanna do to show us you know nothing about football?

 

[lexkyvol]

Yes. That just about sums up the lie that you guys love to tell yourselves rather than have an honest conversation about the team that includes the weaknesses of EVERYONE.

And if you were the "expert" you pretend to be... you'd know that an OL can in fact be worse or even "terrible" at one thing and better or even good at the other.

So show me where the oline was good at anything? oh, i get it. this is where you circle back around to the qb not telling them who to block right? so on runs when they miss blocks, they're not good run blockers. on passes when they whiff on blocks, the qb....only being JG.....didnt get them in the right call.

I love how the doubters know so much more than Pruitt and Co. Even now Chaney.

 

[lexkyvol]

Dobbs had a much worse o line shielded by his ability to run when the pocket broke down.JG can’t get out of the pocket or make up his mind fast enough when the pocket collapses to win games it’s that simple.you stat chasers blow my mind when literally in 2 years he’s thrown 16 touchdowns and 6 interceptions,that’s embarrassing.

Dobbs line was NOT worse than JGs by any means. Dobbs oline allowed us to run the ball effectively while this oline has not

 

[BeardedVol]

well completion percentage is def on there........but to you even that is inflated somehow so what would be the use?

So you couldn't find "big time throws" being tracked?

 

[k-town_king]

So you couldn't find "big time throws" being tracked?

It's a PFF stat. It's their own rating. Their analytics are widely recognized as the best in pro and college football at evaluating performance by players and teams.

If you don't know that, it says more about your lack of knowledge than anything.

 

[BeardedVol]

It's a PFF stat. It's their own rating. Their analytics are widely recognized as the best in pro and college football at evaluating performance by players and teams.

If you don't know that, it says more about your lack of knowledge than anything.

So arbitrarily-defined "big time throws" is such an important and telling metric, that PFF is the only one tracking it?

 

[FLVOL_79]

So.......no qbs ever came from losing teams and were great? Wins and losses are completely the responsibility of the qb? How much more you wanna do to show us you know nothing about football?

Cant really think of many sub .500 QBs who throw .8 td per game who were considered "great"..but keep the hope alive that JG will become good and a leader on the field. A childlike imagination is a wonderous thing.

 

[FLVOL_79]

So you couldn't find "big time throws" being tracked?

Probably right next to the intangibles metric...

 

[chargervol]

So arbitrarily-defined "big time throws" is such an important and telling metric, that PFF is the only one tracking it?

Ask 20 people about PFF, you'll get 20 different answers.
There's articles leaning each way and NFL players and coaches that completely dismiss them.
They've had their hits and their numbers were used to show Tom Brady was no longer a factor after 2014.
Case by case, I guess.

 

[UTSuave’]

Will probably be a while before we see another Dobbs but he doesn't even need to be dual threat, just more movement in the pocket would be a huge step.

Was watching PM and JG highlights earlier and 2 differences that stood out the most.

1. When needed, PM was all over the pocket to create that extra half second for play development. JG needs to improve here.

2. Hitting the receivers in stride. PM had a knack for it obviously but receivers slow on too many throws from JG.
Several missed TD opportunities as a result.

First play is a TD but you still see the it. The 55 second mark is a perfect example though. SHOULD have been a TD.

Dobbs made things happen out of nothing because he was mobile with his legs,JG could be also but he can’t make those decisions to get out the pocket fast enough.Both Dobbs and JG were dual threat qbs.JG is fast enough but he won’t ever leave the pocket when he has to,instead he will force the covered check down throw that’s why he only averages (9.8 yards) passing per game which is ridiculously sad.

 

[BeardedVol]

Ask 20 people about PFF, you'll get 20 different answers.
There's articles leaning each way and NFL players and coaches that completely dismiss them.
They've had their hits and their numbers were used to show Tom Brady was no longer a factor after 2014.
Case by case, I guess.

3rd and 25, QB completes a 20 yard pass into coverage, but still no first down, forced to punt. 4th and 6, and the QB faces down a blitz to completes an 8 yard pass to convert and save the drive.

Which one is the "big time throw"? I'd argue that the first is not, and the second is, but it doesnt sound like PFF would agree. That's the problem with arbitrarily defined stats.

 

[UTSuave’]

Dobbs line was NOT worse than JGs by any means. Dobbs oline allowed us to run the ball effectively while this oline has not

Let’s not forget how bad it really was before they gave Dobbs the green light to scramble out of the pocket instead of forcing him to be a pro style qb lol.Dobbs o line was by far the worst but looked decent because Dobbs had the ability to run and get down field.the o line literally did not have to block for very long because he could run if he needed to

 

[KeyVol14]

Or... the OL hasn't been able to show their full potential due to the lack of good QB play.... so easy just to throw guys under the bus by blaming one or the other, huh?

It isn't either or. It is both. JG needs to improve. OL needs to improve. For that matter, one of the back ups needs to improve enough to push JG some. JG needs it. If JG gets hurt the Vols will need one of them to play well.

It easy for the defense to pin there ears back and blitz cuz they know the O-line struggled mightily in pass protection last year . When given time JG can make some plays AKA the Auburn game. I know I'm the only one to see this. The lack of a consistent run game didn't help as well.

 

[KeyVol14]

Thats now how this works hoss. However, you don't need anti JG articles when you have stats, real, tangible stats.. And no..I'm not talking about "big time throws" (lol) or weighted time of possession during a harvest moon while Jupiter and its moons are visible... 4-8 and 5-7 ring a bell? Sub .500 career. Average 0.8 TD a game career.

JG got knocked out of three games due to being hit constantly....this next season soley relies the improvement of the offensive line. We don't have a Dobbs on the roster to make.up for poor play.

 

[KeyVol14]

Wrong. Completely wrong. I have been critical of his shortcomings. If he improves to be an effective QB that leads the Vols to points and wins... I'll like him regardless of his statistical ranking.

But I won't ignore the issues I see or just blame the OL for everything. Funny... those who do just that don't seem to bother you enough for you to call them out. If you don't like reading similar answers to similar arguments... then why read the posts? No one forced you.

The first play of the season he about got his head decapitated.....but I guess that was JGs lack of awareness right?

 

[BeardedVol]

The first play of the season he about got his head decapitated.....but I guess that was JGs lack of awareness right?

If you just want to focus on one play then here you go:



The offensive line was responsible for their fair share of sacks, but not all of them, not by a long shot.

 

[KeyVol14]

If you just want to focus on one play then here you go:



The offensive line was responsible for their fair share of sacks, but not all of them, not by a long shot.

The only guy open was a the far reciever along the sideline but the defender was baiting him the whole time. Yea he should have thrown the ball the way at that point. I'm just saying more often than not the offensive line was getting beat play after play. Hell ETSU gave us fits as well as Charlotte that's inexcusable.

 

[BeardedVol]

The only guy open was a the far reciever along the sideline but the defender was baiting him the whole time. Yea he should have thrown the ball the way at that point. I'm just saying more often than not the offensive line was getting beat play after play. Hell ETSU gave us fits as well as Charlotte that's inexcusable.

Thats the point. He had 5+ seconds in the pocket, and still ate a sack. He could have tucked it and ran, or at the very least thrown it away, but he struggles to think quickly and decisively, and he often struggles to see the full field.

How many times last season did we hear the announcers say something along the lines of, "...JG wishes he had that one back, <insert receiver> was wide open waving his arms on the other side of the field... "?

Those issues are not caused by the oline. Even with a 100% increase in the offensive line performance in 2019, we will still struggle offensively if JG doesn't also significantly improve as well.