The Jarrett Guarantano debate thread...

#527
#527
BeardedVol said:
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On these boards, I am told as long as the point is made, nothing else matters. Did you not get the point?
 
#528
#528
lexkyvol said:
as a freshman and a sophomore.....nope. with 2 different coordinators/ staffs.....nope. with the worst line prolly east of the mississippi......nope. nah, none of that stuff factors in. another low football iq guy
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DOBBS HAD JUST AS BAD OF A O LINE AS JG.the difference is he could avoid a sack and run it’s been said on here many of times you just choose not to accept it.the same players that were sitting behind Dobbs o line starters are still here how can you say it’s not as bad butch’s recruits are still here?.coaching changes and playbooks have nothing to do with awareness and avoiding a sack and making throws like Dobbs had to do.zero!. Mentally he doesn’t have it physically he does.if you’re content with 12 touchdowns total in a football season then JG is definitely your guy lol.
 
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#530
#530
lexkyvol said:
yeah, see you've watched for 2 years and for some reason you are still on this JG as a dual threat thing heavy and even here went comparing his running ability to that of a one Joshua Dobbs. yeah bud, you're either trolling like a few others or low football iq like a few of them as well. i mean even the eye test calls that stance moronic.......but by all means continue
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The point is he was recruited as a dual threat and that was a complete miss by the recruiting “experts” I’m not comparing the two to be the same,I’m simply stating that if Dobbs could avoid pressure and leave the pocket “masking” a bad o line and JG can’t why is he still the starting QB?!?..he’s literally shown us the same movie for two years now and the o line hasn’t improved enough for JG to even be remotely comfortable.
 
#531
#531
KeyVol14 said:
Maybe cuz more often than not he was getting pressured on over 60-70 percent of passing plays and that's not an exaggeration
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Right.because they knew he wouldn't pass the ball more than 10 yards and then what you try to establish a running game?...lol good luck,the box was literally loaded all last year because they were forcing JG to beat teams with his arm (etc.) Auburn and Kentucky game are great examples.
 
#533
#533
KeyVol14 said:
We couldn't block ETSU or Charlotte for goodness sake
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Lol sure.because our O line also didint struggle blocking against Ohio and app st in 2016 lol we have had a bad o line that long,the difference was a QB that had awareness and could avoid pressure masking a horrible o line. JG can’t.
 
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#534
#534
chargervol said:
Since for whatever reason I decided to join this discussion, I want to be clear.
I'm discussing where I think JG needs to improve for him to take the next step. And while I see/acknowledge those areas, unlike some, I believe he has the talent and capability to take that step.

The areas he has lacked in are real but so is the poor OL play, lack of consistent coaching and his youth. It's not the same as a freshman at GA or Clemson where they were thrown into a really solid supporting cast.

Chaney has a solid reputation and I *believe JG knows where he hasn't performed well. He has been/will be working his butt off to correct those areas imo.
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Good stuff! What he is will come out this season...good or bad.
 
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#535
#535
UTSuave’ said:
Lol sure.because our O line also didint struggle blocking against Ohio and app st in 2016 lol we have had a bad o line that long,the difference was a QB that had awareness and could avoid pressure masking a horrible o line. JG can’t.
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JG isn't the dual threat Dobbs was I'm not even remotely defending that....but Pruitt inherited Butchs lack of finding talent for the OL
 
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#536
#536
KeyVol14 said:
JG isn't the dual threat Dobbs was I'm not even remotely defending that....but Pruitt inherited Butchs lack of finding talent for the OL
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I think (and hope) it was far more a matter of terrible development, techniques, and philosophy.

Jones said and did some things along the way that support this idea. Former players quietly questioned the techniques Jones was teaching in year one. The very good OL's he inherited from Dooley supposedly refused to do it his way. He intentionally wanted his OL's to be relatively light. The thinking was he could run smaller, quicker OL's to counter SEC power. In the end, his players weren't even quicker. Then you factor in his "revolutionary" S&C program that led to injuries and a constant cycle of musical chairs on the OL.

Even with a bit lesser talent, the OL can improve simply by having an SEC level S&C program.
 
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#537
#537
KeyVol14 said:
JG isn't the dual threat Dobbs was I'm not even remotely defending that....but Pruitt inherited Butchs lack of finding talent for the OL
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He isn’t at all and I’m not saying he is.JG was definitely missed by the recruiting experts being “labeled”as a “dual threat” I’m just sayin until our o line gets better and we get the people Pruitt needs,JG will struggle.he isn’t fast enough nor does he attempt to get out of the pocket and avoid pressure quick enough.
 
#538
#538
UTSuave’ said:
He isn’t at all and I’m not saying he is.JG was definitely missed by the recruiting experts being “labeled”as a “dual threat” I’m just sayin until our o line gets better and we get the people Pruitt needs,JG will struggle.he isn’t fast enough nor does he attempt to get out of the pocket and avoid pressure quick enough.
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Agree. O-line sucked but he holds the ball to long and stares down his primary.
 
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#540
#540
UTSuave’ said:
The point is he was recruited as a dual threat and that was a complete miss by the recruiting “experts” I’m not comparing the two to be the same,I’m simply stating that if Dobbs could avoid pressure and leave the pocket “masking” a bad o line and JG can’t why is he still the starting QB?!?..he’s literally shown us the same movie for two years now and the o line hasn’t improved enough for JG to even be remotely comfortable.
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i think u just both contradicted and answered your own question bub. the o line hasnt improved........so therefore its not the quarterback.
 
#541
#541
UTSuave’ said:
DOBBS HAD JUST AS BAD OF A O LINE AS JG.the difference is he could avoid a sack and run it’s been said on here many of times you just choose not to accept it.the same players that were sitting behind Dobbs o line starters are still here how can you say it’s not as bad butch’s recruits are still here?.coaching changes and playbooks have nothing to do with awareness and avoiding a sack and making throws like Dobbs had to do.zero!. Mentally he doesn’t have it physically he does.if you’re content with 12 touchdowns total in a football season then JG is definitely your guy lol.
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man, you make it sound so easy. especially reading coverages vs concepts while trying to complete a pass expecting a center, guard, or tackle to do their job. hmmm......
 
#542
#542
sjt18 said:
Are you kidding? Worley took as much or probably more abuse than JG.

Worley got injured. Can't you even be honest about something like that?

Justin Worley Injury: Updates on Tennessee QB's Shoulder and Return

FTR, when Worley was injured in game 7, he had completed over 62% of his passes for almost 1600 yds with 12 TD's and 8 INT's. Only Pig Howard had over 500 yds receiving that season.


As for pressure, the one public stat available for comparison is sacks. UT gave up 23 last year and 43 in 2014. UT threw much more in '14... because they felt they could. Last year UT gave up 1 sack for every 12.9 pass attempts. In '14, it was 1 for every 10.5 attempts.

They weren't good at pass protection that year and especially with Worley who had lead feet.

You really should check your "facts" before claiming they're "facts".

Oh, another "fact". Stone and company were gone in '14 replaced by Jones' poor development and idiotic schemes/techniques/development.




Yeah. He "sucked" so bad that after replacing Worley he completed just over 63% of his passes for over 1200 yds, 9 TD's, and 6 INT's in just 6 games. Playing just over 3 quarters in relief of Peterman vs Bama. Dobbs completed 19 of 32 and 192 yds with 2 TD's and 1 INT.


For comparison's sake, JG last year in 12 games threw for only 1907 yds. Worley threw as many TD passes while getting maimed in 7 games as JG did in 12.

The offense that year ran through the QB because they trusted both Worley and Dobbs to "manage the O"... to do the mental parts well. Worley averaged 36 attempts per game with Dobbs at 30. They only allowed JG to throw it about 20 times per game last year and 15 the year before.

Unless you are proposing that they were trying to lose... they didn't put the game in JG's hands because they didn't think they could.
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so 12 tds, 8 picks and 9 tds, 6 picks with 1200yards makes those guys good passers......but you are against JG and what he's doing?

I cant...........

you just contradicted yourself entirely
 
#544
#544
BeardedVol said:
Thats the point. He had 5+ seconds in the pocket, and still ate a sack. He could have tucked it and ran, or at the very least thrown it away, but he struggles to think quickly and decisively, and he often struggles to see the full field.

How many times last season did we hear the announcers say something along the lines of, "...JG wishes he had that one back, <insert receiver> was wide open waving his arms on the other side of the field... "?

Those issues are not caused by the oline. Even with a 100% increase in the offensive line performance in 2019, we will still struggle offensively if JG doesn't also significantly improve as well.
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which is what he eventually was doing.........but did it too late. great job! you passed one question out of 259. party, party, party....lets all get wasted!
 
#545
#545
dcm3w said:
You realize that those aren't spectacular numbers for any of individuals. The only reason we were successful was because of Dobbs' legs which DCs had to scheme against. It made the OL look better than they actually were. If Dobbs wasn't a DT then we would've not put up the stats we did. See: Worley, JG, and Dormady...
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those stats show by committee. and john kelly put up good numbers after dobbs with dormady (the first anti-JG hero who crapped), so.......

next excuse please
 
#547
#547
sjt18 said:
You can disagree all you like. It won't change the fact that he didn't recognize pressure or coverages consistently pre-snap. He didn't anticipate openings in the D well pre or post snap. It took him too long to process information after the snap causing him to be a half count late on throws that required him to lead the receiver or throw to a spot.

It is difficult to know who is at fault when... but there are times when he doesn't manage the pocket well. If you're an OT and the QB at the right moment takes that half shuffle step up into the pocket... it can make the difference in a guy beating you or giving you the leverage to beat him.

Two consecutive staffs have pretty much said that they limited the passing O to what the OL and JG could handle. Not just one. Both. You can't always throw those long developing patterns that JG tends to do better. No OL can do that without changing it up with effective quick passes and hot reads. There are things JG could not do like hitting the quick stuff or throwing to soft spots in the D that help an OL... A LOT. Most of the deep stuff was to the outside. That's safe because it limits what JG has to see and takes advantage of his very good ability to make those throws. They threw a lot of short stuff and one option patterns. They didn't let him throw hot reads. They didn't let him use the middle of the field often and especially short and medium crossing patterns and curls... stuff that makes LB's stay home.

JG's slow decision making was a MAJOR factor. OL's getting physically manhandled or just whiffing assignments was a MAJOR factor.

You don't have to believe me. Earlier in the year, JG happily said that Chaney was going to let him do more... specifically mentioning hot reads. Chaney through the O&W game announcers said that speeding him up was a major objective. Pruitt punctuated that by being highly perturbed at the half when JG reverted to his old ways... before coming out and looking much better in the 2nd half.
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True, Pruitt even said himself that he needs to work on his reads and getting the ball out faster.
 
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#548
#548
lexkyvol said:
those stats show by committee. and john kelly put up good numbers after dobbs with dormady (the first anti-JG hero who crapped), so.......

next excuse please
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If the YPC were proof of a good line in 2017, then our line must have been excellent last year.

Heck, even Jordan put up those kinda yards per carry, Chandler way more.
2018 OL must've been outstanding if that's how it works.
😅
 
#549
#549
JG will surprise alot of people this season. With the wideouts, Chandler, and Wood-Anderson we just need Cheney to dial up some x's and o's. Get the Oline fired up mean. They should feel disrespected now. We have alot of upper class O line and very talented incoming class. We have alot of depth now.
 
#550
#550
KeyVol14 said:
JG isn't the dual threat Dobbs was I'm not even remotely defending that....but Pruitt inherited Butchs lack of finding talent for the OL
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He isn’t at all and I’m not saying he is.JG was definitely missed by the recruiting experts being “labeled”as a “dual threat” I’m just sayin until our o line gets better and we get the people Pruitt needs,JG will struggle.he isn’t fast enough nor does he attempt to get out of the pocket and avoid pressure quick enough.
MeanOrange said:
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Agree. O-line sucked but he holds the ball to long and stares down his primary.
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In a major way.for sure 👍🏽
 
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