The Jarrett Guarantano debate thread...

[TheDeeble]

Some stat help please:

Line up on our 20. 7 step drop. Throw ball to flat at the 15 (is this a completion, yes), runner goes for 15 yards to the 30. How is this scored? Is this a 15 yard completion? a 10 yard completion? Is this 15 YAC? I am simply asking with no agenda whatsoever.

I thought this was scored as a 10 yd completion with 10 yd YAC.

A 10 yard completion. Receiver gets credit for a catch and 10 yards. QB gets credit for 1 completion and 10 yards. Which is why the argument people have about short pass attempts does have weight.

If on our 20 and the receiver catches that same pass but instead takes it all the way for a td, then it goes down as a 80 yard pass completion for JG. Even thought the receiver is the one that did all the work. A pass attempt that took little skill or ability for a college qb, but it makes the qb look artificially good.

 

[82_VOL_83]

A 10 yard completion. Receiver gets credit for a catch and 10 yards. QB gets credit for 1 completion and 10 yards. Which is why the argument people have about short pass attempts does have weight.

If on our 20 and the receiver catches that same pass but instead takes it all the way for a td, then it goes down as a 80 yard pass completion for JG. Even thought the receiver is the one that did all the work. A pass attempt that took little skill or ability for a college qb, but it makes the qb look artificially good.

Thanks Deeble.

 

[UTSuave’]

Time for the JG haters to go ballistic.

Advanced stats consistently show JG is much better than people realize and the O-line was much worse. It's why all the pipe dreams of a miracle QB who overtakes JG for the job are just that. JG has many things he needs to work on to become an elite QB, but he was one of our best players last season.

And sure, JG needs to make "quicker decisions", but the reason you think this is because he's constantly under pressure in a very short amount of time. No one would think that if he had Georgia or Bama's O-line. It's not even really the best criticism of JG. IMO, where JG struggles most is throwing on the run; he consistently underestimates how far the ball is going to fly when he throws on the run.

But overall, JG is the least of our problems. Fix the O-line. Fix the D-line. Add depth. Keep recruiting well. Develop players. Then we'll win. Unfortunately, I think we're probably at least a year away on the lines.

Lol.sure his whole high school career (total) he threw 23 touchdowns in 4 years.JG will always look good on paper but will not win you big football games or the toss up games.he just won’t.he will force a check down pass or take a sack before he will throw a questionably deep ball when we need a spark.

 

[GAVol]

A 10 yard completion. Receiver gets credit for a catch and 10 yards. QB gets credit for 1 completion and 10 yards. Which is why the argument people have about short pass attempts does have weight.

But not nearly as much weight as some seem to think because A) every other QB is throwing those balls too; B) If you've watched Tennessee football the past couple of years, you know there aren't exactly a lot of playmakers turning balls in the flat and underneath into 20 yards gains.

 

[k-town_king]

A 10 yard completion. Receiver gets credit for a catch and 10 yards. QB gets credit for 1 completion and 10 yards. Which is why the argument people have about short pass attempts does have weight.

If on our 20 and the receiver catches that same pass but instead takes it all the way for a td, then it goes down as a 80 yard pass completion for JG. Even thought the receiver is the one that did all the work. A pass attempt that took little skill or ability for a college qb, but it makes the qb look artificially good.

If you are talking about the PFF rating then you are wrong. They count the pass not the after the catch stuff.

Ypa you would be right.

Also our wrs did absolutely nothing after the catch. So with a good ypa the short pass argument holds zero weight.

 

[Volumnus 2011]

PFF, an unbiased source who grades literally every single play of every single game rate JG as the 2nd highest rated quarterback coming back in the SEC this season.

Some posters on here: "I'm so smart. JG sucks."

 

[Tennesseefan2019]

 

[BeardedVol]

PFF, an unbiased source who grades literally every single play of every single game rate JG as the 2nd highest rated quarterback coming back in the SEC this season.

Some posters on here: "I'm so smart. JG sucks."

They also gave Jarret Stidham a rating of 89.0 going into the 2018 season, higher than Hurts or Tagavailoa...so yeah...rock solid on their analysis of the previous season matching next season results.

PFF SEC Preview - Quarterback Spotlight

 

[marcusluvsvols]

Hate to see a bug chunk of our supposed "fans" crapping on our starting QB who has never done anything but give his all for UT.

Never been in trouble, never shot his mouth off to media coaches or fans, never had a bad attitude or quit on the team. Nothing.

He has stood and delivered, taken hits behind a patchwork offensive line that would put any one of you fat couch potatoes criticizing him out of your, and our, misery.

He hasnt lit the world on fire, true. Guess what? Peyton couldn't have done it behind those offensive lines, either. He has always popped right back up, though..even when he is looking out his earhole...and never trash talked the Oline that was getting him killed.

No reason in the world to trash the kid. Dobbs couldnt hit the broad side of a barn with a scattergun...but I bet yall were huge fans...

Nah...you trashed him, too. Sure hope you guys are perfect at your jobs...personal life...spiritual life...you would have to be in order to have a right to trash a 20 year old kid who has given his best every game.

For the record...i watched Peyton have 4 interception games against Floriduh...never did beat them. JG has never had a terrible outing like that when there was no doubt he cost us the game. Never. There is a reason most publications rank him the 2nd or 3rd best QB in the toughest conference in CFB...because the kid is pretty doggone good.

Wish more of our "fans" were. SMDH

 

[DustyRockSolid]

So do you suspect JG will go in the second rd when his time comes?????????????

I don't know where or if JG will go in the draft but he has the potential. It all depends on how he performs this season and next. I honestly think we see a vast improvement from him this season.

 

[Volumnus 2011]

They also gave Jarret Stidham a rating of 89.0 going into the 2018 season, higher than Hurts or Tagavailoa...so yeah...rock solid on their analysis of the previous season matching next season results.

PFF SEC Preview - Quarterback Spotlight

Wrong.

His 89 rating was for when he was kept clean. He had a 46 rating while under pressure.

Other than that, you're exactly who I was talking about.

"I'm so smart. JG sucks."

 

[KBVol]

Just as a point of reference Drew Lock was drafted in the second round. His completion % was 62.9 last year. JGs was 62.2%. Locks's YPA was 8.0 and JGs was 7.8. Is either stat really that significantly different statistically? No they arent. Was Lock known for screen passes and dinking and dunking? No he wasnt.

So those who want to claim that JG made his stats with mostly short passes need to at least come to the table with actual facts. Not, oh you need to watch the film. Because those who have watched the film, have provided the actual stats.

Lock also had a 1200 yard rusher who had 11 rushing tds (of Missouri’s 27 total rushing tds, vs UT’s 15).....Tennessee’s leading rusher had 630 yards and we had the worst rushing offense in the conference.

Lock also didn’t play behind the worst OL in college football history.

 

[BeardedVol]

Wrong.

His 89 rating was for when he was kept clean. He had a 46 rating while under pressure.

Other than that, you're exactly who I was talking about.

"I'm so smart. JG sucks."

So you're proposing that the 85.9 rating given to JG is when he is under pressure? That's what you're going with?

Or is this just a, "this informattion supports my opinions so of course it is infallible to me" scenario for you?

 

[KBVol]

Classic example of stats not telling the whole story. Looking at those stats, on the surface, one might think JG and DL are comparable QBs, but that's far from true..

No, what that empirical evidence tells us is that JG was not nearly as bad, behind the worst OL in college football history, as the “classic” UT QB haters in our fan base say he was/is. Lock had much more time to throw, yet had the same pass %....he had speedsters who could stretch the field where JG did not, yet they had the same yards per attempt which measures how much/far a QB throws the ball up the field. And we also know that JG was far better throwing the ball while under defensive pressure, which was virtually every time he dropped back to throw the ball.

So in the interest of trying to stay focused on the actual topic, nobody is saying JG will be 2nd round draft pick or that he’s overall as good a QB as Lock....but we are saying, as evidenced by empirical, objective data, that he was better, much better last year than the anti-JG guys in here who pretty much only ever say “he sucks” based on their subjective bias.

 

[cbatey1]

I don't know where or if JG will go in the draft but he has the potential. It all depends on how he performs this season and next. I honestly think we see a vast improvement from him this season.

I actually agree with all of that for the most part.

 

[Volumnus 2011]

So you're proposing that the 85.9 rating given to JG is when he is under pressure? That's what you're going with?

Or is this just a, "this informattion supports my opinions so of course it is infallible to me" scenario for you?

I don't know what you are referring to when you mention an 85.9 rating. I was simply pointing out that you were incorrect when you stated Stidham's rating.

Now, do I think a business which makes money by evaluating players has a better idea of how to rate JG than you? Yes. Yes I do. Is it infallible? Of course not. Is it a much better source than "random guy on internet who trashes our starting quarterback when national outlets don't"? Yep.

Are you going to change my mind? Nope. I have a professional rating system on my side. You have yourself and a couple other armchair quarterbacks. I'm good with not arguing about JG anymore. Maybe you've noticed you don't see me in these threads as much anymore. I only stepped in to point out you incorrectly interpreted the link you posted.

 

[GAVol]

Not sure I totally get their methodology.... but then again, QBR is hard to figure out period. Here are JG's "clean pocket" numbers.

 

[BeardedVol]

I don't know what you are referring to when you mention an 85.9 rating. I was simply pointing out that you were incorrect when you stated Stidham's rating.

Now, do I think a business which makes money by evaluating players has a better idea of how to rate JG than you? Yes. Yes I do. Is it infallible? Of course not. Is it a much better source than "random guy on internet who trashes our starting quarterback when national outlets don't"? Yep.

Are you going to change my mind? Nope. I have a professional rating system on my side. You have yourself and a couple other armchair quarterbacks. I'm good with not arguing about JG anymore. Maybe you've noticed you don't see me in these threads as much anymore. I only stepped in to point out you incorrectly interpreted the link you posted.

The point being that a rating of the previous years performance, with whatever metric they seem to be using, is in no way an indicator of the next year's performance, as indicated by their rating of Stidham higher than Hurts and Tagavailoa, and Stidham's ultimate 2018 performance.

So questioning the methodology used by PFF is now trashing JG? Interesting.

 

[Volumnus 2011]

The point being that a rating of the previous years performance, with whatever metric they seem to be using, is in no way an indicator of the next year's performance, as indicated by their rating of Stidham higher than Hurts and Tagavailoa, and Stidham's ultimate 2018 performance.

So questioning the methodology used by PFF is now trashing JG? Interesting.

You were wrong about the rating though, is the point. You said they gave Stidham an 89 rating. They didn't. He got a 78, I think. The 89 was just his rating when kept clean. So no, it wasn't higher than Hurts or Tagovailoa.

Questioning the methodology doesn't mean you're trashing JG. It's everything you've done to trash JG that's trashing JG.

 

[m1al]

So in the interest of trying to stay focused on the actual topic, nobody is saying JG will be 2nd round draft pick or that he’s overall as good a QB as Lock....but we are saying, as evidenced by empirical, objective data, that he was better, much better last year than the anti-JG guys in here who pretty much only ever say “he sucks” based on their subjective bias.

It's good to see we agree on something.

Also, just for the record, I'm NOT an 'anti JG' guy. I like the guy and, as a fan and human being, I want him to suceed.

 

[k-town_king]

The point being that a rating of the previous years performance, with whatever metric they seem to be using, is in no way an indicator of the next year's performance, as indicated by their rating of Stidham higher than Hurts and Tagavailoa, and Stidham's ultimate 2018 performance.

So questioning the methodology used by PFF is now trashing JG? Interesting.

He had a better year in 2017. That was a rating for 2017.

He had a down year in 2018. Not hard to understand.

 

[KBVol]

You compared him to Lock going in the second rd so just checking.....of course he will never be drafted in the second round

Completely dishonest. He never said, not once, that JG would go in the second round like you’re insinuating now. He compared a handful of JG’s stats to those of Lock’s, who just got drafted in the second round, to prove/suggest that JG isn’t as awful as so many like you on here say. You surely knew that.

 

[KBVol]

It's good to see we agree on something.

Also, just for the record, I'm NOT an 'anti JG' guy. I like the guy and, as a fan and human being, I want him to suceed.

Love the avi.....Irish dude from Braveheart. “You’re a madman....”

 

[KBVol]

Lol.sure his whole high school career (total) he threw 23 touchdowns in 4 years.JG will always look good on paper but will not win you big football games or the toss up games.he just won’t.he will force a check down pass or take a sack before he will throw a questionably deep ball when we need a spark.

He literally threw the second highest amount of 20+ yard completions (while under pressure) last year in the SEC behind Tua.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

The point being that a rating of the previous years performance, with whatever metric they seem to be using, is in no way an indicator of the next year's performance, as indicated by their rating of Stidham higher than Hurts and Tagavailoa, and Stidham's ultimate 2018 performance.

So questioning the methodology used by PFF is now trashing JG? Interesting.

I am sure if PFF had something that agreed with your views on JG, you wouldn’t be questioning them.