The (many) indictments of Donald Trump

[kiddiedoc]

They all say this until the fungus-controlled zombies eat your face.

OMG... the irony

 

[RockyTop85]

I'm no scholar, but I'm not aware of how a state DA is authorized to prosecute a federal charge.

They’re not. Sounds like the New York State legislature wrote a statute that says falsifying business records to conceal or further another crime is a felony. If done for some other purpose it’s a misdemeanor.

Bragg is alleging facts to satisfy that enhancement and the underlying crime that was concealed or whatever is the election finance crime.

It sounds like it is just a standard enhancement and he’s just applying New York law as written.

Seems like a tough case to win because presumably he can’t get a lesser included and he has to prove a lot of elements.

But it doesn’t seem nefarious. That sounds like it’s just Trumpkins doing Trumpkin things.

 

[LadyVolette]

It's not new. The candida strain has been sneaking in largely from other countries. Really only a concern in nursing home facilities and immunocompromised, at this point.

We always got lovely things like scabies, thrush, MRSA, VRSA, rotavirus, Norwalk virus, CDiff (because everyone has taken a million antibiotics) in LTC.. it’s amazing I’m still kicking my parents are going to stay at the house when the time comes

 

[rekinhavoc]

Man Defecates Next to Hillary Clinton in Theatre While Watching "Some Like It Hot"

Donald Trump strikes back!

 

[rekinhavoc]

The Legally and Morally Flawed Case Against Trump

"The business records case under Section 175 is a misdemeanor and the statute of limitations is two years. If DA Bragg manages to shoehorn an alleged violation of the federal campaign finance laws into the Section 175 charge – despite being a state DA and not a US Attorney – then the business records case becomes a felony and has a five-year statute of limitations. My iPhone tells me this is 2023 – nearly seven years after any such Section 175 business record crime would have occurred. So, the statute of limitations has clearly run."


Distraction politics.

 

[SuzyVol]

They’re not. Sounds like the New York State legislature wrote a statute that says falsifying business records to conceal or further another crime is a felony. If done for some other purpose it’s a misdemeanor.

Bragg is alleging facts to satisfy that enhancement and the underlying crime that was concealed or whatever is the election finance crime.

It sounds like it is just a standard enhancement and he’s just applying New York law as written.

Seems like a tough case to win because presumably he can’t get a lesser included and he has to prove a lot of elements.

But it doesn’t seem nefarious. That sounds like it’s just Trumpkins doing Trumpkin things.

Serious question: Any idea whether the New York courts have ever allowed this enhancement when the concealed crime was a federal crime, or a Nebraska (or any state other than NY) crime?

 

[Zues1]

Eddie Murphy as Reggie Hammond and the badge quote comes to mind.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

There are some legal gymnastics at work ... the case lacks clarity. Still, Trump is no victim.

In a way he is though. He has been persecuted by the left since day 1.

 

[VOLS INC.]

In a way he is though. He has been persecuted by the left since day 1.

The MLK bust story really set the tone for the manner in which the media would treat him after he became president. Report absolute lies with no investigation whatsoever. Feed the American public the lies, leveraging every form of communication available. Quietly retract the lies while still feeling justified and virtuous because orange man bad. Rinse. Repeat.

 

[volgr]

But it doesn’t seem nefarious.

RT85 gonna RT85...

 

[LouderVol]

Valid points.
It brings me back to the republican nominee for president leading thousands of screaming worshipers in chants of "lock her up" in reference to the democratic nominee for president. From what I recall, most all on the right found it hilarious and not damaging or divisive in the least, while those on the left looked on thinking "do they not have a clue as to what they are actually doing to this country?" "Can people actually support this type of nonsense?"

But they never did anything. Chants are no where close to actually locking them up. I would also point out that no one actually like Hilary, people for some reason like Trump. His hard core base is a different animal.

And you didn't give me an answer? If anything you yet again agree that the Dems are no different than the guy you claim to hate, and yet you will sit here and try and claim a moral high ground over one.

If I was the DA and cared about this country I would do everything possible to keep Trump out of jail. like I said permanent house arrest, seize all his other assets, give him a felony so he can't hold office.

 

[utvolpj]

while those on the left looked on thinking "do they not have a clue as to what they are actually doing to this country?" "Can people actually support this type of nonsense?"

I think you seriously overestimate the left. They lack the ability to ask or answer those questions truthfully

 

[luthervol]

But they never did anything. Chants are no where close to actually locking them up. I would also point out that no one actually like Hilary, people for some reason like Trump. His hard core base is a different animal.

And you didn't give me an answer? If anything you yet again agree that the Dems are no different than the guy you claim to hate, and yet you will sit here and try and claim a moral high ground over one.

If I was the DA and cared about this country I would do everything possible to keep Trump out of jail. like I said permanent house arrest, seize all his other assets, give him a felony so he can't hold office.

You seriously can't be defending that. You had the republican nominee leading the chant that he would lock up his opponent if he won. You understand that, right? Trumpers ate it up.....absolutely pathetic in the eyes of all reasonable people.

And you're absolutely wrong to think that there were not millions who loved Hillary (especially women).

If I were a citizen that cared about his country, I would have done whatever possible to eliminate the Trump nonsense as soon as it started.......certainly not gleefully join in, which is what so many did.

If you cannot take a step back, and understand and admit how wrong and harmful that chant was (and it's only one example), then you're not trying very hard.

Trump was despised for valid reasons. To whine about the repercussions of Trump hatred now, is nuts. It was the obvious result from day one. People were screaming that reality as loudly as they could. The right stupidly ignored every warning sign.

 

[luthervol]

I think you seriously overestimate the left. They lack the ability to ask or answer those questions truthfully

Not at all. Those questions were being asked and answered truthfully every day. Republicans made the choice to ignore the reality.

 

[McDad]

If I were a citizen that cared about his country, I would have done whatever possible to eliminate the Trump nonsense as soon as it started.......certainly not gleefully join in, which is what so many did.

I bet many assassination plots start with the same premise.

 

[VOLS INC.]

I bet many assassination plots start with the same premise.

Whoa. That’s strong brother. Good stuff.

 

[luthervol]

I bet many assassination plots start with the same premise.

No doubt. But the tens of millions who felt this way were not assassins.

 

[McDad]

No doubt. But the tens of millions who felt this way were not assassins.

You, and others like you, must take care not to influence those in the tens-of-millions who are impressionable.

 

[kiddiedoc]

All it takes is one with such absurd extremist thinking.

 

[RockyTop85]

Serious question: Any idea whether the New York courts have ever allowed this enhancement when the concealed crime was a federal crime, or a Nebraska (or any state other than NY) crime?

I have no idea, I don’t practice law in New York and have never had a case like this in Tennessee. (Sorry for super long post.)

I know that all kinds of laws in TN have enhancements like this. DUI is a good example. In Tennessee, your 4th and subsequent DUI convictions are felonies. But Tennessee prosecutors can look outside the state for those convictions. There are hoops that prosecutors have to jump through to use a conviction from another state, but as long as the definition of DUI in the other state isn’t something wildly off the mark, it is permitted.

Hypothetically, a New York mob boss falsifying records to conceal sale of drugs in Vegas and Miami would seem like a pretty reasonable application of this law. The underlying crimes of possession can’t really be charged in New York, (I guess a conspiracy could, but it’s still a conspiracy to commit crimes in another state) but enhancing the financial crime would not be controversial, I wouldn’t think.

Also, at this stage, courts haven’t allowed anything. A prosecutor has (allegedly) alleged a theory of a crime. The only oversight at this stage is the grand jury. As far as I know, the grand jury hasn’t endorsed it, yet. I’m not a big fan of grand juries, they tend to be rubber stamps. But it’s still a deliberative body that would be endorsing any charge that he brings, so it’s ostensibly not just a unilateral decision by the prosecutor.

Then it gets challenged in courts. Trump’s lawyers will have an opportunity to raise all sorts of defenses if an indictment is returned. Those challenges could be successful or, if not, could be the subject of interlocutory appeals before any trial is held or could be appealed in the event of a conviction. (Most of the time when people like Johnathon Turley start opining about Trump’s legal defenses, the lawyers on the ground tend to decide that they’re not worth actually raising. This one could be different.)

Then, at trial Bragg still has to convince 12 jurors of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, which tends to be a significant obstacle for the state in convoluted cases like this especially one where the reasonable doubt on the political motive seems pretty obvious (maybe he didn’t want Melania to find out).

I wouldn’t have high hopes for this case succeeding, unless they have something that proves he wasn’t worried about his pregnant wife finding out that he was sleeping around. But it’s just the system doing what the system does. The same basic thing happened to Alec Baldwin just a few weeks ago. The enhanced charge returned by the grand jury was barred by the ex post facto clause of the constitution and it got reduced pretty quickly once it got in front of a judge. So compared to some nonexistent ideal system, I can see an argument that this is wrong. Compared to the agreed upon system that we have, it’s pretty standard.

 

[RockyTop85]

RT85 gonna RT85...

Can’t wait to hear what infowars has to say about it.

 

[McDad]

I have no idea, I don’t practice law in New York and have never had a case like this in Tennessee. (Sorry for super long post.)

I know that all kinds of laws in TN have enhancements like this. DUI is a good example. In Tennessee, your 4th and subsequent DUI convictions are felonies. But Tennessee prosecutors can look outside the state for those convictions. There are hoops that prosecutors have to jump through to use a conviction from another state, but as long as the definition of DUI in the other state isn’t something wildly off the mark, it is permitted.

Hypothetically, a New York mob boss falsifying records to conceal sale of drugs in Vegas and Miami would seem like a pretty reasonable application of this law. The underlying crimes of possession can’t really be charged in New York, (I guess a conspiracy could, but it’s still a conspiracy to commit crimes in another state) but enhancing the financial crime would not be controversial, I wouldn’t think.

Also, at this stage, courts haven’t allowed anything. A prosecutor has (allegedly) alleged a theory of a crime. The only oversight at this stage is the grand jury. As far as I know, the grand jury hasn’t endorsed it, yet. I’m not a big fan of grand juries, they tend to be rubber stamps. But it’s still a deliberative body that would be endorsing any charge that he brings, so it’s ostensibly not just a unilateral decision by the prosecutor.

Then it gets challenged in courts. Trump’s lawyers will have an opportunity to raise all sorts of defenses if an indictment is returned. Those challenges could be successful or, if not, could be the subject of interlocutory appeals before any trial is held or could be appealed in the event of a conviction. (Most of the time when people like Johnathon Turley start opining about Trump’s legal defenses, the lawyers on the ground tend to decide that they’re not worth actually raising. This one could be different.)

Then, at trial Bragg still has to convince 12 jurors of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, which tends to be a significant obstacle for the state in convoluted cases like this especially one where the reasonable doubt on the political motive seems pretty obvious (maybe he didn’t want Melania to find out).

I wouldn’t have high hopes for this case succeeding, unless they have something that proves he wasn’t worried about his pregnant wife finding out that he was sleeping around. But it’s just the system doing what the system does. The same basic thing happened to Alec Baldwin just a few weeks ago. The enhanced charge returned by the grand jury was barred by the ex post facto clause of the constitution and it got reduced pretty quickly once it got in front of a judge. So compared to some nonexistent ideal system, I can see an argument that this is wrong. Compared to the agreed upon system that we have, it’s pretty standard.

Thanks. Good insight.

 

[luthervol]

You, and others like you, must take care not to influence those in the tens-of-millions who are impressionable.

lol....I agree, but that's certainly a message better suited for the "lock her up" "patriot" crowd.

I think the left took far greater care than did the right in regards to inflammatory words and conduct.
You know it was the Bannon/Trump strategy to divide, portray the left as the enemy, and call it war.
Horrible and destructive strategy...........many (51%+) knew it from day one.

 

[luthervol]

All it takes is one with such absurd extremist thinking.

That's yet one more reason why Trumpism was/is horribly wrong and destructive.

 

[OrangeTsar]

You, and others like you, must take care not to influence those in the tens-of-millions who are impressionable.

Yup, see the Republican Congressional Baseball practice a few years ago. Or the nutcase who tried to kill Kavenaugh.
Funny isn’t it that all the warnings about political violence center on the right; but all of the examples seem to come from the left isn’t it?