The Official “Regular Posters of the Basketball Forum” Thread

[VolCalls]

It's irritating seeing Duke blow through that creampuff league (a diminished Illinois was the big test!) going into March - really, it's the same with any league other than the SEC. As deep as this league is with the meat grinder schedules in CFB and CBB has to hurt us in some way come the post season playoff or tournament. We'll see how that plays out in March.

Let's be honest - over time, the ACC has consistently been one of the top two leagues in the country. It's only this year they've had a really down season with one juggernaut and two good, but not great, teams (Louisville and Clemson). Sometimes it happens.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Also...I really wanna know why Dubar can't seem to carve out more minutes with us being so short benched.

He played 11 at OU and hasn't hit 7 in a game since...even with Felix, Gainey and Igor all being ill or banged up.

Because once again he had a team worst plus/minus (albeit not bad), and didn’t do anything to warrant more PT. I made this point last night, coaches, especially this time of year, rather go 36+ on guys they trust than give minutes to a guy they don’t, and we are likely past the point of earning that trust.

 

[VolFreakJosh]

Because once again he had a team worst plus/minus (albeit not bad), and didn’t do anything to warrant more PT. I made this point last night, coaches, especially this time of year, rather go 36+ on guys they trust than give minutes to a guy they don’t, and we are likely past the point of earning that trust.

Dubar is an odd one.

One minute he’ll make great plays then disappear majority of the game.

But I agree, I’ve seen nothing to warrant he deserves more playing time.

 

[MoCo_Vol]

Because once again he had a team worst plus/minus (albeit not bad), and didn’t do anything to warrant more PT. I made this point last night, coaches, especially this time of year, rather go 36+ on guys they trust than give minutes to a guy they don’t, and we are likely past the point of earning that trust.

I'm not opening up a debate with you over a point you're still trying to make from a carry over discussion with someone else you started last night.

My comment is just a general query wondering out loud why Dubar can't seem to get more minutes when the guys playing ahead of him have been in the most need of rest/breaks.

Last 6 games he's taken 2 shots or less in every game so he's obviously not just getting in there and shooting at will. He also has only had 3 turnovers in those 6 games with just 3 fouls. So whatever he's doing wrong isn't obvious when reviewing the box score and watching games live I've not seen him really do anything to explain it either.

It could simply be Barnes doesn't trust him...because Cade has finished with a worse plus/minus in 2 of the last 3 games they both have appeared in and played twice as many minutes.

 

[VolsSportsFan]

I'm really hoping this year is kind of the flip of 2019 for us, where most of the season we were considering the top dog of the SEC and then towards the end Auburn got hot and made it to the FF while we got outed in the S16. I'm hoping the inverse happens. It's not exactly the same situation this year since the SEC is much better than then but I think you get my idea.

I always hated for that team that even though they are historically one of our best teams ever, they ended up with not a lot to actually show for it. They got over 30 wins and were ranked #1 for a good while but no regular season championship, no SECT and made the S16 but that seemed like a bit of a letdown given how we felt.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

I'm not opening up a debate with you over a point you're still trying to make from a carry over discussion with someone else you started last night.

My comment is just a general query wondering out loud why Dubar can't seem to get more minutes when the guys playing ahead of him have been in the most need of rest/breaks.

Last 6 games he's taken 2 shots or less in every game so he's obviously not just getting in there and shooting at will. He also has only had 3 turnovers in those 6 games with just 3 fouls. So whatever he's doing wrong isn't obvious when reviewing the box score and watching games live I've not seen him really do anything to explain it either.

It could simply be Barnes doesn't trust him...because Cade has finished with a worse plus/minus in 2 of the last 3 games they both have appeared in and played twice as many minutes.

Where are you seeing that? According to UT’s website Dubar has been as bad or worse than Phillips in all 3 of the last 3 games…

 

[MoCo_Vol]

Where are you seeing that? According to UT’s website Dubar has been as bad or worse than Phillips in all 3 of the last 3 games…

UT's website? The box score I'm looking at on UTSports doesn't even have plus/minus...where are you looking at yours?

I'm going off sports-reference and their BPM (Box Plus/Minus)

vs LSU Dubar was -4.1, Cade was -10.8
vs A&M Dubar was 3.1, Cade was 8.5
vs Vandy Dubar was 17.2, Cade was -11.9

 

[bleedingTNorange]

UT's website? The box score I'm looking at on UTSports doesn't even have plus/minus...where are you looking at yours?

I'm going off sports-reference and their BPM (Box Plus/Minus)

vs LSU Dubar was -4.1, Cade was -10.8
vs A&M Dubar was 3.1, Cade was 8.5
vs Vandy Dubar was 17.2, Cade was -11.9

Gotcha, fwiw my understanding is that is an efficiency version based on per 40, so not necessarily a straight +/-. If you go to utsports.com and click on men’s basketball schedule, then a game recap it brings up an article, scroll down about a 1/4 of the page and there’s a box score tab you can click which opens up a box score with plus and minus.

In all 3 of those games Cade was either the same or better than Dubar fwiw

 

[MoCo_Vol]

Gotcha, fwiw my understanding is that is an efficiency version based on per 40, so not necessarily a straight +/-. If you go to utsports.com and click on men’s basketball schedule, then a game recap it brings up an article, scroll down about a 1/4 of the page and there’s a box score tab you can click which opens up a box score with plus and minus.

In all 3 of those games Cade was either the same or better than Dubar fwiw

Good to know, yeah sports-reference has some interesting "projection" stats they use...but it's quick and easy to access so I default there often.

Using the box score from UT Sports

vs LSU, Dubar was -1, Cade 0
vs A&M, both were 3
vs Vandy, Dubar was -6, Cade -4

Assuming that's +/- based on how the team played with them on the court.

Something that's interesting is that Mashack shows up big time in this specific stat. 5 at LSU, 10 at A&M 7 vs Vandy...him, Chaz, and Felix appear to be the only 3 players that were + for all 3 games.


My only real point is that it appears Dubar hasn't earned Barnes' trust...but it doesn't appear to be an "in game" mistake(s) that are causing it. So whatever he hasn't done from joining the team to now is why he's 8th man in of only 9 available.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Good to know, yeah sports-reference has some interesting "projection" stats they use...but it's quick and easy to access so I default there often.

Using the box score from UT Sports

vs LSU, Dubar was -1, Cade 0
vs A&M, both were 3
vs Vandy, Dubar was -6, Cade -4

Assuming that's +/- based on how the team played with them on the court.

Something that's interesting is that Mashack shows up big time in this specific stat. 5 at LSU, 10 at A&M 7 vs Vandy...him, Chaz, and Felix appear to be the only 3 players that were + for all 3 games.


My only real point is that it appears Dubar hasn't earned Barnes' trust...but it doesn't appear to be an "in game" mistake(s) that are causing it. So whatever he hasn't done from joining the team to now is why he's 8th man in of only 9 available.

Mashack has done a much better job the last few games being aggressive and making things happen even though he remains unguarded. The staff is also doing a better job of playing him when Zeigler is out, as well as allowing him some time up top and Zeigler off the ball when they’re together, and then once again last night they played a decent amount of small ball with him at the 4. All 3 of these things are much better suited for Shack to be successful rather than sticking him at the 3 and playing him off the ball alongside Zeigler and another guard.

As for Dubar, both of the last 2 games as I mentioned above we’ve gone small with Shack at the 4, that is going to remove minute possibles for Dubar as he’s 4th post option, bumps to 5th with Shack playing there. He hasn’t been awful of late but also hasn’t necessarily done anything that you say (or at least to me), we’ve got to find a way to get him more minutes. We’ve reached the point in the year where barring injury you’re shrinking your rotation, not expanding it, you’re fine tuning some things and trying to get 6-7 guys playing together as best as you possibly can heading into March, unfortunately the time has likely passed where the staff really even considers giving Dubar much of a look.

 

[chuckiepoo]

Mashack has done a much better job the last few games being aggressive and making things happen even though he remains unguarded. The staff is also doing a better job of playing him when Zeigler is out, as well as allowing him some time up top and Zeigler off the ball when they’re together, and then once again last night they played a decent amount of small ball with him at the 4. All 3 of these things are much better suited for Shack to be successful rather than sticking him at the 3 and playing him off the ball alongside Zeigler and another guard.

As for Dubar, both of the last 2 games as I mentioned above we’ve gone small with Shack at the 4, that is going to remove minute possibles for Dubar as he’s 4th post option, bumps to 5th with Shack playing there. He hasn’t been awful of late but also hasn’t necessarily done anything that you say (or at least to me), we’ve got to find a way to get him more minutes. We’ve reached the point in the year where barring injury you’re shrinking your rotation, not expanding it, you’re fine tuning some things and trying to get 6-7 guys playing together as best as you possibly can heading into March, unfortunately the time has likely passed where the staff really even considers giving Dubar much of a look.

Open only in case of emergency!

 

[MinisterofDef#92]

 

[MoCo_Vol]

Mashack has done a much better job the last few games being aggressive and making things happen even though he remains unguarded. The staff is also doing a better job of playing him when Zeigler is out, as well as allowing him some time up top and Zeigler off the ball when they’re together, and then once again last night they played a decent amount of small ball with him at the 4. All 3 of these things are much better suited for Shack to be successful rather than sticking him at the 3 and playing him off the ball alongside Zeigler and another guard.

As for Dubar, both of the last 2 games as I mentioned above we’ve gone small with Shack at the 4, that is going to remove minute possibles for Dubar as he’s 4th post option, bumps to 5th with Shack playing there. He hasn’t been awful of late but also hasn’t necessarily done anything that you say (or at least to me), we’ve got to find a way to get him more minutes. We’ve reached the point in the year where barring injury you’re shrinking your rotation, not expanding it, you’re fine tuning some things and trying to get 6-7 guys playing together as best as you possibly can heading into March, unfortunately the time has likely passed where the staff really even considers giving Dubar much of a look.

Yeah, my worry there is small sample sizes mean when things really get muddy (foul trouble or injury) and you have to rely on Dubar all the growing pains that could have been worked through will be happening in a time of year where there is no opportunity for it.

I have no issue with us being a 7 man rotation...it's pretty clear that Gainey and Cade are the best options off the bench to contribute meaningful minutes without any drop off anywhere. I think whatever lead to his time away from the team early season soured his opportunity here...and that sucks, didn't expect him to be a stud or anything but was hoping he could be a good 12-15 minutes a night guy especially with JP injury and Carr quitting.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Yeah, my worry there is small sample sizes mean when things really get muddy (foul trouble or injury) and you have to rely on Dubar all the growing pains that could have been worked through will be happening in a time of year where there is no opportunity for it.

I have no issue with us being a 7 man rotation...it's pretty clear that Gainey and Cade are the best options off the bench to contribute meaningful minutes without any drop off anywhere. I think whatever lead to his time away from the team early season soured his opportunity here...and that sucks, didn't expect him to be a stud or anything but was hoping he could be a good 12-15 minutes a night guy especially with JP injury and Carr quitting.

I’m with ya, definitely have our fingers crossed hoping for no injuries or foul trouble…not uncommon at all for teams to be 6/7 deep in the tourney and then a guy like Dubar getting 5-7mpg here and there as an 8th, but there’s nothing after that, so yea, we gotta avoid foul trouble and injury.

 

[sami]

It really just bugs me that college athletics can’t hire better officials than what we’re given in every sport. It’s awful. Hell, last night Stetson baseball ties up the game with Florida in the 7th only to have the run overturned because “the baserunner was not in the running lane” so they called him out to end the inning. I’ll let you take a guess if the official got the call right (Hint: Not even close to being the correct call).

Barnes isn't one to complain about officiating after games, but he's been pointing out all season how Chaz and ZZ are constantly grabbed to the point that they can't keep their shirts tucked in. Gainey's shirt was hanging out last night as well.

The conference is obviously not going to spend the money to hire full time trained officials, so maybe they actually prefer it this way.

 

[sami]

Let's be honest - over time, the ACC has consistently been one of the top two leagues in the country. It's only this year they've had a really down season with one juggernaut and two good, but not great, teams (Louisville and Clemson). Sometimes it happens.

My point was more about how rankings and seedings don't put enough weight into strength of schedule, as even the middling teams in the SEC can be tough outs on their home floors. And how teams like Duke, Houston, and Arizona will be much fresher come March due to not being pushed on a night to night basis like in our league. It is what it is.

 

[sami]

Yeah, my worry there is small sample sizes mean when things really get muddy (foul trouble or injury) and you have to rely on Dubar all the growing pains that could have been worked through will be happening in a time of year where there is no opportunity for it.

I have no issue with us being a 7 man rotation...it's pretty clear that Gainey and Cade are the best options off the bench to contribute meaningful minutes without any drop off anywhere. I think whatever lead to his time away from the team early season soured his opportunity here...and that sucks, didn't expect him to be a stud or anything but was hoping he could be a good 12-15 minutes a night guy especially with JP injury and Carr quitting.

I know it's moot at this point, but Carr and especially Estrella would have made this team almost a Final Four lock in my mind. Having that kind of depth and the potential post presence Estrella offers would have been massive. But as I said, moot.

 

[MoCo_Vol]

I know it's moot at this point, but Carr and especially Estrella would have made this team almost a Final Four lock in my mind. Having that kind of depth and the potential post presence Estrella offers would have been massive. But as I said, moot.

I think it would have helped Igor out a lot. JP being able to take more of those minutes would help keep him fresher, cause honestly the games where he's struggled it just seems like fatigue.

The quick turnaround for LSU though means we have a longer period before Bama to hopefully get rested. It's easily the most important regular season game of the season now, especially with Florida losing to Georgia and still have 2 top 15 teams left to face.

 

[VolCalls]

My point was more about how rankings and seedings don't put enough weight into strength of schedule, as even the middling teams in the SEC can be tough outs on their home floors. And how teams like Duke, Houston, and Arizona will be much fresher come March due to not being pushed on a night to night basis like in our league. It is what it is.

I understand your point, but the Big 12 is a formidable league, just not quite as good as the SEC this year. You can’t make exceptions to criteria each year based on how a particular league is faring. Part of the pageantry of the NCAAT for the last half-century is its consistency.