The Official "2020 Final Presidential Debate" Thread

#1,303
#1,303
UT_VOLS13 said:
They have a "progressive" lean.
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By "lean"...

800px-Bury_your_head_in_the_sand.jpg
 
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#1,304
#1,304
RockyTop85 said:
0-3. Wake me up when you guys figure out what the accusation is.
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Right wing media (Fox News, NY Post, Breitbart, Washington Examiner, The Daily Caller) is leaving out the fact that the correspondence in those emails took place after Joe Biden had left office. That detail changes everything about this story.
 
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#1,305
#1,305
BowlBrother85 said:
Right wing media (Fox News, NY Post, Breitbart, Washington Examiner, The Daily Caller) is leaving out the fact that the correspondence in those emails took place after Joe Biden had left office. That detail changes everything about this story.
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Yes he’s a prominent Democrat and clearly an influence peddler but he wasn’t in office at the time clearly he won’t do it then! 😂
 
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#1,306
BowlBrother85 said:
Right wing media (Fox News, NY Post, Breitbart, Washington Examiner, The Daily Caller) is leaving out the fact that the correspondence in those emails took place after Joe Biden had left office. That detail changes everything about this story.
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Are you actually acknowledging the veracity of those emails now?
 
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#1,311
#1,311
Grand Vol said:
Are you actually acknowledging the veracity of those emails now?
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Sure. Why not? The impression being given yesterday was that these e-mails were from Joe Biden's time as Vice President. I can't believe that you can cover this story without acknowledging that this activity was taking place after Obama/Biden had left office, but that is what Fox News did yesterday. It was deception by omission.
 
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#1,313
BowlBrother85 said:
Sure. Why not? The impression being given yesterday was that these e-mails were from Joe Biden's time as Vice President. I can't believe that you can cover this story without acknowledging that this activity was taking place after Obama/Biden had left office, but that is what Fox News did yesterday. It was deception by omission.
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Other than the ones that started while he was in office?
 
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#1,314
BowlBrother85 said:
Right wing media (Fox News, NY Post, Breitbart, Washington Examiner, The Daily Caller) is leaving out the fact that the correspondence in those emails took place after Joe Biden had left office. That detail changes everything about this story.
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I’m legitimately behind. I pretty much stopped paying attention when Rudy contradicted the repairman about how repairman came to be in possession the laptop. All there was at that point seemed like stuff about Hunter Biden and the Victor Shokin stuff, which is nonsense.

There are things one can do when not holding public office that would be disqualifying. But those things tend to require specific facts. And proof.

For example, handing over internal polling data to an agent of a foreign country that is illegally helping your campaign for public office; meeting with an agent of said foreign country who promises to give you dirt on your opponent in that campaign, deleting your text messages about the meeting, and lying about it publicly; or meeting with representatives of a bank owned by said government and then giving conflicting stories about the subject of the meeting when questioned by federal law enforcement.

Those kinds of things could be compromising, because the candidate obviously doesn’t want the truth to come out, or they wouldn’t be lying about it, and the foreign country knows the truth.

Is Biden accused of anything like that? What is the accusation against Joe Biden?
 
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#1,315
BowlBrother85 said:
Those emails don't change the established facts concerning the firing of Viktor Shokin. The Senate investigation was not partisan - in fact, it was led by Sen. Ron Johnson who is a Trump supporter.
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There are no established facts regarding the firing of Shokin, who has testified that he’d begun or was beginning investigation of Burisma, and planned to interview Hunter.

Again, the Senate could not investigate info they didn’t have. BTW, you’re referring to this Senate investigation:

e. Conclusion
The records acquired by the Committees show that Hunter Biden and his family were involved in a vast financial network that connected them to foreign nationals and foreign governments across the globe. Hunter Biden and Archer, in particular, formed significant and consistent financial relationships with the corrupt oligarch Mykola Zlochevsky during their time working for Burisma and their firms made millions of dollars from that association while Joe Biden was vice president and the public face of the Obama administration’s Ukraine policy. Rosemont Seneca Thornton, an investment firm co-founded by Hunter Biden, received $3.5 million in a wire transfer from Elena Baturina, who allegedly received illegal construction contracts from her husband, the former mayor of Moscow. Moreover, Archer’s apparent receipt of money for a car from Kenges Rakishev of Kazakhstan while Vice President Biden was in Kyiv is especially concerning in light of the timing. And finally, Biden and Archer’s work with Chinese nationals connected to the Communist regime illustrate the deep financial connections that accelerated while his father was vice president and continued after he left office.
Biden and Archer found willing partners in Chinese nationals connected to the Communist regime. Their work in China began at least in 2009, with the creation of Rosemont Seneca Partners with Heinz, Secretary of State John Kerry’s stepson. Then, several years later, Biden and Archer formed BHR with Bohai Capital and received their business license approval in China shortly after Biden visited China with his father, Vice President Biden.
Hunter Biden’s connections and financial associations appear to have accelerated significantly after he associated himself with Ye Jianming, who had deep connections with the Communist regime and PLA. However, that didn’t seem to have any impact on Hunter Biden, who made millions from the relationship. Indeed, Hunter Biden and his family, to include James and Sara Biden, associated with other Chinese nationals such as Gongwen Dong. In one case, the three of them went on a $100,000 global spending spree after Gongwen Dong and Hunter Biden opened a joint account. In addition, Hunter Biden received millions of dollars over a period of years from Gongwen Dong’s companies. According to records acquired by the Committees, many of these transactions involved potential criminal financial activity.
The records acquired by the Committees show consistent, significant and extensive financial connections among and between Hunter Biden, James Biden, Sara Biden, Devon Archer, and Chinese nationals connected to the Communist regime and PLA as well as other foreign nationals with questionable backgrounds. These connections and the vast amount of
426 Chen Aizu, CITIC Group in talks for up to 49 percent stake in CEFC unit, REUTERS (Mar. 20, 2018), https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...alks-for-up-to-49-percent-stake-in-cefc-unit- idUSKBN1GW0I8.
427 Alliances/Clients, Thornton Group, http://www.thorntonai.com/english/alliances.html.
428 CONFIDENTIAL DOCUMENT 7 (on file with Comms.).
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money transferred among and between them don’t just raise conflicts of interest concerns, they raise criminal financial, counterintelligence and extortion concerns. The Committees will continue to evaluate the evidence in their possession.

XII. CONCLUSION.
As the Chairmen’s report details, Hunter Biden’s role on Burisma’s board negatively impacted the efforts of dedicated career-service individuals who were fighting to push for anticorruption measures in Ukraine. Because the vice president’s son had a direct link to a corrupt company and its owner, State Department officials were required to maintain situational awareness of Hunter Biden’s association with Burisma. Unfortunately, U.S. officials had no other choice but to endure the “awkward[ness]” of continuing to push an anticorruption agenda in Ukraine while the vice president’s son sat on the board of a Ukrainian company with a corrupt owner. As George Kent testified, he “would have advised any American not to get on the board of Zlochevsky’s company.”429 Yet, even though Hunter Biden’s position on Burisma’s board cast a shadow over the work of those advancing anticorruption reforms in Ukraine, the Committees are only aware of two individuals who raised concerns to their superiors. Despite the efforts of these individuals, their concerns appear to have fallen on deaf ears.
Former Secretary Kerry’s December 2019 denial of having any knowledge about Hunter Biden or Burisma is inconsistent with the evidence uncovered by the Committees. Kerry was briefed about Hunter Biden, Burisma and Christopher Heinz the day after Burisma announced Hunter Biden joined its board. Additionally, Secretary Kerry’s senior advisor sent him press clips and articles relating to Hunter Biden’s board membership. This appears to be yet another example of high-ranking Obama administration officials blatantly ignoring Hunter Biden’s association with Burisma.
Several witnesses highlighted efforts to enable a successful investigation of Zlochevsky, and also noted that the U.S. decision to condition a $1 billion loan guarantee was made in part because of the then-Ukrainian prosecutor general’s failure to pursue a case against Zlochevsky. But at the end of the day, between 2014 through 2017, despite the concerted effort of many U.S. officials, not one of the three different Ukrainian prosecutor generals held Zlochevsky accountable.
The Obama administration and the Democrat lobby shop Blue Star Strategies had consistent and extensive contact with Andrii Telizhenko over a period of years. Yet despite these well-documented contacts with Democratic officials, Democrats have attempted to impugn this investigation for having received some Blue Star-related records from Telizhenko. Some Democrats have even (incorrectly) identified Telizhenko as the Committees’ “star witness.”430 Although he produced a small number of Blue Star-related records to the Committees, the Committees never interviewed him as part of this investigation.431
429 George Kent Testimony at 110.
430Ranking Member Ron Wyden, Wyden Takes to Senate Floor to Address Russian Disinformation in Flawed Congressional Investigation, 2020 Election (Sept. 16, 2020), https://www.finance.senate.gov/wyden-takes-to-senate-floor-to-address-russian- disinformation-in-flawed-congressional-investigation-2020-election.
431 The Committees received a small number of records from Telizhenko related to his communications with and subsequent work for Blue Star Strategies. Ranking Member Peters and Ranking Member Wyden have access to these records but have refused to receive or review them. Had they done so, they would have observed that the State Department, National Archives, and Blue Star Strategies (after it received a subpoena) produced most of the same records to the Committees. They also would have noticed the emails and text messages that Blue Star failed to produce to the Committees.
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Even though almost all of the Committees’ records are from U.S. agencies and U.S. officials or persons, Democrats have repeatedly misconstrued the facts of this investigation and have smeared it as a Russian disinformation campaign. In doing so, they conveniently have ignored their own long history of meeting with Telizhenko and his yearlong work for a Democrat lobby shop. If Democrats are concerned that Telizhenko presents any risk of advancing disinformation, it is notable that the Ranking Members have not expressed any curiosity about his work with the Obama administration or Blue Star Strategies.
The records acquired by the Committees also show that Hunter Biden and his family were involved in a vast financial network that connected them to foreign nationals and foreign governments across the globe. Hunter Biden and Devon Archer, in particular, formed significant and consistent financial relationships with the corrupt oligarch Mykola Zlochevsky during their time working for Burisma, and their firms made millions of dollars from that association while Joe Biden was vice president and the public face of the Obama administration’s Ukraine policy. Rosemont Seneca Thornton, an investment firm co-founded by Hunter Biden, received $3.5 million in a wire transfer from Elena Baturina, who allegedly received illegal construction contracts from her husband, the then-mayor of Moscow. Moreover, Archer’s apparent receipt of money for a car from Kenges Rakishev of Kazakhstan while Vice President Biden was in Kyiv is especially concerning in light of the timing. And finally, Biden and Archer’s work with Chinese nationals connected to the Communist regime illustrate the deep financial connections that accelerated while Joe Biden was vice president and continued after he left office.
The Chairmen’s investigation has faced many obstacles from the minority and from executive agencies that have failed to comply with document requests. Accordingly, there remains much work to be done.

That’s not saying Biden has done nothing wrong but rather there’s plenty of evidence to continue investigating despite the stonewalling of evidence. That evidence has grown dramatically the last few weeks.
 
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#1,317
#1,317
MontyPython said:
Curious... do tell how Chris Wallace was *specifically* critical of Trump during debate #1.
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I did not say he was critical of Trump in the first debate. I said he was critical of him. He debated Trump as well as Biden and at times more so during the debate.

Wallace is a left leaning hack that is anti-Trump. Of course, let him moderate!

Title of an article from Vox, in case you say, he isn’t critical of Trump...

“Trump’s adversarial relationship with presidential debate moderator Chris Wallace, explained”
9/29/2020 by Aaron Rupar
 
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#1,319
BowlBrother85 said:
Right wing media (Fox News, NY Post, Breitbart, Washington Examiner, The Daily Caller) is leaving out the fact that the correspondence in those emails took place after Joe Biden had left office. That detail changes everything about this story.
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Do you seriously think you're smarter than everyone else?

Obviously you do.
 
#1,324
#1,324
BreatheUT said:
Do you seriously think you're smarter than everyone else?

Obviously you do.
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I'm smart enough to recognize biased reporting when I see it. This Hunter Biden laptop story does not implicate Joe Biden in any wrongdoing. The Wall Street Journal column, which I referenced earlier, points that out. This is a manufactured "scandal" by the right wing to smear a candidate before an election. There is no crime. Joe Biden was a private citizen at the time. That is an important detail which the right has buried in their reporting.
 
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