The Official Detroit Lions Den Thread

Coaches the Lions have lost so far:

1) OC Ben Johnson ➡️ Bears HC

2) DC Aaron Glenn ➡️ Jets HC

3) Pass Game Coordinator Tanner Engstrand ➡️ Jets OC

4) DL coach Terrell Williams ➡️ Patriots DC

5) WRs coach Antwaan Randle El ➡️ Bears AHC/WRs coach

6) Assistant QBs coach J.T. Barrett ➡️ Bears QBs coach m

7) TEs coach Steve Heiden ➡️ Jets OL coach
 
Read that whichever team wins tonight will be the opening matchup in week one against the Lions.
 
I wrote 3300 words about the Detroit Lions because I am a mad man. I broke it up into multiple parts, I apologize for those that aren't fans and have to go all the way to the bottom

Part 1
We are now a full month from the Lions crushing Divisional loss to the Washington Commanders and I finally can get to my offseason report. Being at the car shop for the next 3 hours to help the girlfriend since she had to work today and I’m off thanks to President’s Day did help expedite the process. I was able to watch the remaining five playoff football games despite looking like I had a muffler stuck up my ass for every game. As I’ve gotten older, I’ve tried to be more positive about my team's outlook . I have come to more of an understanding that the playoffs should not wipe away the great memories of a regular season. Maybe the Braves finally overcoming decades of playoff frustration and finally winning the World Series softened me. Maybe seeing how bad the Red Wings, Tigers and Pistons have been for a decade made me come to the realization that being good, not great is okay.. The Lions last two playoff games, both soul crushing for two completely different reasons, have tested my newfound understanding.

Does the joy of watching the Lions spank the Vikings in the last regular season game to clinch the North and #1 seed on primetime Sunday night negate the playoff loss? Did having just the 9th NFL team ever win 15 regular season games make the pain of losing in the playoffs easier? Does knowing the worst franchise in professional sports finally overcoming demons no sports fan should have to succumb to finally become a respectable, even beloved national darling numb some of the pain that a football playoff loss brings? Did finally having a playoff win for the first time in (at the time) 31 years of living last year and watching the city of Detroit shed tears of joy for a football team that the city constantly loved even as the franchise never loved them back for almost 60 years help during the offseason? Yes, all of that will be somewhat true. But playoff losses also have a certain sting to them forever, no matter what sport or round you lose in.The Braves won the 2021 World Series and yet when I think of the 10-run 1st inning in Game 5 of the 2019 NLDS my blood still simmers (instead of boiling). Ask my dad about the Red Wings incredible 25 year playoff run and he will eventually bring up losing in Game 7 of the 2009 Stanley Cup Finals to Pittsburgh, despite having won 4 previous Cups.

In February of 2032, will I look at the 2024 Lions as a success and remember them as maybe my favorite regular season sports team of all time? Most assuredly I will. But right now on February 17th, 2025 all I can think about is Ben Johnson going empty on 3rd and 1 inside the red zone and Graham Glasgow getting blown up with Amon-Ra slipping out of his break on a LB as Jared Goff didn’t step up far enough in the pocket before losing the ball.

Despite all of that, I think the 2023 NFC title loss still hurts worse than losing to Washington. Washington outplayed Detroit once the Goff strip sack occurred. Detroit lost Amik on the second play because Jack Campbell freakishly hit his arm during a tackle. The DL played the worst game of the year and the defense tackled like **** all game. The Lions tried to have Jameson Williams throw a football. I’m more disappointed because they had the 1 seed and they went 15-2 but with the injuries and how well Philadelphia was rolling, I think Philly would have beaten them even if Detroit somehow won 49-45 against DC. The 2023 loss still keeps me up because they were better than San Francisco that game and two plays completely changed the outcome of that game. To quote a song from Cage The Elephant, “you can drive all night looking for the answers in the pouring rain. You wanna find peace of mind, looking for the answer.” But the beauty of sports is there is always a next season. There are draft picks and players in free agency to acquire. There are always new games to be played. There will be another NFL playoffs where hopefully the Lions will make it. And there will be new reasons to believe. That’s the beauty of sports. Next season can always be better than the previous season (unless you’re the 72’ Dolphins). And maybe my positivity is hopelessly placed, but I still like to believe the Detroit Lions, with this group in particular, can finally bring peace to the city of Detroit.
 
Part 2
1 With all that being said, I have never had a more fun regular season from a sports team other than this one. The 2021 Braves playoff run is my sports pinnacle but they won 88 games and were .500 till mid August that year. This team was so special from the top down. It’s a shame the defensive injuries finally caught up with them and the offensive just didn’t protect the football. If they were healthy, I think Detroit would have won the whole thing. But that’s how sports works. You get kicked and you pick yourself back up.

2) The biggest concern right now for the Lions 2025 season is the offensive coordinator spot. The Lions have a great infrastructure in place for a great offense but Ben was still highly valuable with his play scheme and play calling. Last game notwithstanding, he was so good at reading a game situation and playing to the Lions’ strengths as a team, all while finding little weaknesses in defenses to exploit. It sucks losing him but having a high ceiling OC at his age like that for 3 years was a mini miracle. I appreciate everything he did even if he took the Bears job before the body was cold. I am concerned about John Morton as the new hire. I know he is a Sean Payton guy, he was in the building in 2022 and Dan has a lot of familiarity with him. I know trying to judge him off one disaster season in New York without a real QB almost 8 years ago is a fruitless activity. But I don’t love a 55 year old with one year of NFL OC experience taking over unless the head coach is going to be the play caller. Now maybe Dan (who did very well in 2021 when he took over) is going to become the play caller moving forward and Morton is there for support. Hank Fraley being promoted to run game coordinator and David Shaw as pass game coordinator seems to indicate they could go that way. I don’t know. But if the plan is giving Morton full control of the offense, it just screams familiarity over ingenuity. Dan has done a great job replacing dudes on the staff so he should have my trust. It might be the Lions fan in me. I just don’t like the hire.

3) The other odd thing about this is why the Lions went outside the building on the offensive side. I will get to the DC spot in a minute but that would make sense going out of the building. To do this with an offense that has been top 5 for three consecutive years seems off base. I heard for two years Tanner Engstrand was being groomed to take over as OC and play caller. Then it sounds like he wasn’t ever really considered. But Aaron Glenn had full confidence in him to not only take over as Jets OC but full control of the offense? Doesn’t Scottie Montgomery’s resume match or even exceed Morton’s? Is Mark Brunnell content just being the QB coach? What made Dan pass over Engstrand as the OC but Glenn have full confidence in him? I am really confused by the whole process. Dan is very forthcoming in his processes so I am hoping we can get some more clarity when everything is official and we get the next presser.

4) Now with the DC hire, as people who read this know, Aaron Glenn was not my favorite. I thought he was fine but was too rigid and stubborn in how he viewed playing defense. There wasn’t enough diversity and I think it’s a big reason why the Lions struggled late this year on defense (along with losing half your two deep on defense of course). I was hoping they would go outside the building and bring in fresh ideas. But Kelvin Sheppard has earned the promotion and everything I’ve read/heard from him implies he’s incredibly smart and adaptable. The LB’s improvement was always noticeable and you could tell from Hard Knocks how much Dan loves what Shep brings. There might be some growing pains but you know what helps a DC? Supreme talent advantage.

5) Go get Myles Garrett and don’t be stingy. Now Cleveland is probably going to fight tooth and nail to not trade him but it makes a lot of sense for them to do it. If he is available and Cleveland opens the market, then Detroit should be in front of the line, willing to depart with the necessary assets to do so. I wouldn’t trade 3 first round picks and Jahmyr Gibbs like Mike Tannebaum suggested. But two 1st’s and throwing in a 3rd would easily be worth it. They need another difference maker at EDGE. Alim is great and we know Hutch is a superstar but the other EDGE spot has been really tough. I thought Za’Darius was fine but he’s a support player. They need another true game wrecker in the front 7. The Lions have enough cap space to fit Garrett to the payroll for the next two years and can rework the contract to front load it. It’s time to make a massive move and Garrett changes the landscape of the NFC. Garrett is about as perfect a trade candidate as you can get. He works his ass off, clean injury history and no locker room issues. He’s only 29 and was still elite in 2024. If Cleveland won’t trade Garrett, give up a 2nd and the additional 3rd from Glenn leaving to get Trey Hendrickson. The draft isn’t enough, as we saw with Terrion Arnold this year trying to be the 2nd CB. The #28 pick isn’t going to be good enough in 2025 to make a true impact as a pass rusher. They got to get a true difference maker.

6) Who are we going to pay moving forward? Because that is going to play a factor into the offseason. Kerby Joseph is eligible for an extension and I love what he brings. But he is also a safety and that is usually an easier position to replace star players. Plus you have Brian Branch who is more valuable to what the Lions do on defense than Joseph. You don’t want to lock up $35-40M/year to 2 safeties, that’s not how you build a team. Hutchinson is eligible for an extension and while the bill won’t come due till 2027, that has to be factored as well. Ragnow has zero guaranteed money after 2025 so expect for him to get a new contract. LaPorta, Branch, Campbell and Gibbs will all be extension eligible after 2026. While I advocated for a Garrett trade and I still believe in it, the Lions are going to have to start letting good players go sooner than later. I wouldn’t pay Kerby at this point in time. He’s incredibly talented and really helps the defense. But I’d rather save that money for Branch.
 
Part 3
7) Small improvements on offense are needed but there is no need for any sort of overhaul. Just some work around the edges. Zeitler was very good but he’s turning 35 next year and Christian Mahogany showed in two games to be a future gem (and he didn’t have a training camp due to mono). Mahogany earned a starting spot in 2025, especially with how cheap his contract is. If you don’t make a massive trade, getting an OG could be an option in the 2nd/3rd round. Maybe you bring Zeitler back for one more year. Glasgow is a really nice extra OL and I’d keep him with a reworked contract. But Graham really lacked in pass protection later in the year and it was a weakness. At WR, I’m fine bringing Patrick back even if I would like a little more from that spot. I wouldn’t bring in Kupp unless it’s cheap (no trade, maybe like $5M, one year deal) and stay away from any guys who would bring in a bigger contract. Jameson should take another step up and we know Amon-Ra/LaPorta are great. I’d rather allocate my offensive resources to the OL and keep that unit elite.

8) The Lions have a lot of guys hitting the market but only one guy I would highly prioritize bringing back. I would bring Carlton Davis back in 2025. He was really good and was playing like an All-Pro at the end of the season. He’s had durability concerns but the reason he went on IR was friendly fire that broke his jaw on a hit under his helmet. That was a freak injury that isn’t reflective of him. I like Amik and he was admirable on the outside but him in the slot makes the team better. Terrion was fine but he wasn’t so good to trust him to be the #1 CB moving forward. Davis won’t cost a huge amount and he’s only 28. Levi played really well in 2024 considering what he had been and if he’s a $3-4M player next year I’d bring him back. Anything past $10M guaranteed and I’m out. I’d see if Melifonwu would be interested in a one year prove it deal, especially if CD walks and you can offer Ifi the slot position. Tim Patrick for $3-5M would be perfectly fine as well. If you want to bring Derrick Barnes back I’d get it but believe he will cost too much. But I would work on a new deal for Davis and go from there.

9) This would be my draft needs in order (not knowing what FA will bring): I’d focus first on the EDGE position. Even if the Lions go get a true difference maker (let’s say they give up a 2nd and 3rd for Hendrickson) I would still go get another EDGE guy in the 1st. You won’t get a true star at #28 in year one but having somebody with explosiveness they can plug in on 3rd down would be something they didn’t have last year. If I don’t make a trade and have my picks, then I would look at somebody on the OL in the second round. This is a really good OL class and they could find a cheap starter on Day 2. Then I would look at adding a S or LB in round 3, just to add some cheap depth. After that I’m thinking BPA and positions not mattering as much for Day 3.

10) Right now I have four Lions that need to take their game to another level going into 2025. I thought Jameson took a major leap forward as a more qualified #2 receiver. His hands and route running were much better than from 2023. However, he has to be better at tracking and fighting on balls. He made large strides but that next step will help the offense. Brodric Martin was taken in the 3rd round after Holmes gave up assets to get him. The probability he becomes anything after such a lackluster 2 years is low but Brad is so good at this I want to believe there is something there. I don’t need Martin to be a game wrecker, just a second string DT that can fill in and give you 15-20 playable snaps. Jack Campbell played like a Pro Bowler in 2024 and was really good. He needs to become better in pass coverage and up his game to All-Pro status. After seeing him in 2024 I think he has another level in his game I previously did not believe he had. Terrion Arnold was not a disaster as a 1st round CB, which is 75% of the battle of a high pick CB. He still has his confidence and he showed a lot of positive signs even with the major struggles. I don’t think he’s going to a #1 guy but a high level, tier below Pro Bowl level #2 CB would be a major help for Detroit in 2025.

11) Jared Goff has been excellent and a top 8 QB the last three years. He was excellent in the 2023 playoffs and I will not back down from him deserving MVP votes after his 2024 season. I think some of the narrative on him was unfair after the playoff game where his defense did him zero favors. Yes, he can’t get the ball knocked out of his hand and the pick 6 was bad. He’s not going to be as good as the core 4 in the AFC. But he has to be better at protecting the football. I wouldn’t call what happened in the Divisional Round a meltdown but there has to be a more careful approach in playoff games. I still believe he can lead Detroit to a Super Bowl victory, especially when we saw Hurts being the signal caller for the Eagles. He will have a lot of doubters with Ben Johnson taking the Bears job and usually that is when Jared thrives. While my concerns about Morton as the OC are real, I am far from being in panic mode because I believe Jared can thrive in any system he’s given (you know, as long as it’s not read option based). They still have elite skill positions, a threatening OL and Goff can still be the driving force of this offense.

12) The Lions had their best season in the Super Bowl era with a 15 win season and the first #1 seed in team history. That’s something to be proud of when you consider how bleak it was in January 2021, despite the disaster ending to the 2024 season. After Alim and CD went down, the probability this team could win the Super Bowl drastically went down. It was going to be a near impossible task to win the whole thing without your best DE, best DT and two best CB’s. The core foundation in the front office and head coach is still in place and that’s the most important thing. Yes, Ben Johnson was a valuable commodity and he was great, but Dan is the culture setter and leader in that locker room. Brad Holmes is an excellent talent evaluator and knows exactly what buttons to push. I’m not concerned long term about the franchise as long as Brad Holmes is in charge. If Morton is a disaster, you can make a change midseason or at the end of the year. Or Dan can take over and then regroup after 2025. The window is still open to me even as the team gets more expensive. The NFL cap continues and will continue to increase. Brad Holmes and Mike Disner know how to manipulate the payroll to keep the team well stocked even with some tough decisions coming up. The NFC North is going to be a bloodbath again in 2025 but this Lions franchise is not some upcoming starter company. They’re a real threat in the NFL. The next step is to get some hardware to back it up. I have a feeling that 2025 could be another major pivot point for the Detroit Lions.
 
I wrote 3300 words about the Detroit Lions because I am a mad man. I broke it up into multiple parts, I apologize for those that aren't fans and have to go all the way to the bottom

Part 1
We are now a full month from the Lions crushing Divisional loss to the Washington Commanders and I finally can get to my offseason report. Being at the car shop for the next 3 hours to help the girlfriend since she had to work today and I’m off thanks to President’s Day did help expedite the process. I was able to watch the remaining five playoff football games despite looking like I had a muffler stuck up my ass for every game. As I’ve gotten older, I’ve tried to be more positive about my team's outlook . I have come to more of an understanding that the playoffs should not wipe away the great memories of a regular season. Maybe the Braves finally overcoming decades of playoff frustration and finally winning the World Series softened me. Maybe seeing how bad the Red Wings, Tigers and Pistons have been for a decade made me come to the realization that being good, not great is okay.. The Lions last two playoff games, both soul crushing for two completely different reasons, have tested my newfound understanding.

Does the joy of watching the Lions spank the Vikings in the last regular season game to clinch the North and #1 seed on primetime Sunday night negate the playoff loss? Did having just the 9th NFL team ever win 15 regular season games make the pain of losing in the playoffs easier? Does knowing the worst franchise in professional sports finally overcoming demons no sports fan should have to succumb to finally become a respectable, even beloved national darling numb some of the pain that a football playoff loss brings? Did finally having a playoff win for the first time in (at the time) 31 years of living last year and watching the city of Detroit shed tears of joy for a football team that the city constantly loved even as the franchise never loved them back for almost 60 years help during the offseason? Yes, all of that will be somewhat true. But playoff losses also have a certain sting to them forever, no matter what sport or round you lose in.The Braves won the 2021 World Series and yet when I think of the 10-run 1st inning in Game 5 of the 2019 NLDS my blood still simmers (instead of boiling). Ask my dad about the Red Wings incredible 25 year playoff run and he will eventually bring up losing in Game 7 of the 2009 Stanley Cup Finals to Pittsburgh, despite having won 4 previous Cups.

In February of 2032, will I look at the 2024 Lions as a success and remember them as maybe my favorite regular season sports team of all time? Most assuredly I will. But right now on February 17th, 2025 all I can think about is Ben Johnson going empty on 3rd and 1 inside the red zone and Graham Glasgow getting blown up with Amon-Ra slipping out of his break on a LB as Jared Goff didn’t step up far enough in the pocket before losing the ball.

Despite all of that, I think the 2023 NFC title loss still hurts worse than losing to Washington. Washington outplayed Detroit once the Goff strip sack occurred. Detroit lost Amik on the second play because Jack Campbell freakishly hit his arm during a tackle. The DL played the worst game of the year and the defense tackled like **** all game. The Lions tried to have Jameson Williams throw a football. I’m more disappointed because they had the 1 seed and they went 15-2 but with the injuries and how well Philadelphia was rolling, I think Philly would have beaten them even if Detroit somehow won 49-45 against DC. The 2023 loss still keeps me up because they were better than San Francisco that game and two plays completely changed the outcome of that game. To quote a song from Cage The Elephant, “you can drive all night looking for the answers in the pouring rain. You wanna find peace of mind, looking for the answer.” But the beauty of sports is there is always a next season. There are draft picks and players in free agency to acquire. There are always new games to be played. There will be another NFL playoffs where hopefully the Lions will make it. And there will be new reasons to believe. That’s the beauty of sports. Next season can always be better than the previous season (unless you’re the 72’ Dolphins). And maybe my positivity is hopelessly placed, but I still like to believe the Detroit Lions, with this group in particular, can finally bring peace to the city of Detroit.
You are maturing, kind of.
Now on to part 2.

Good read by the way.
 
  • Like
Reactions: zjcvols
Part 3
7) Small improvements on offense are needed but there is no need for any sort of overhaul. Just some work around the edges. Zeitler was very good but he’s turning 35 next year and Christian Mahogany showed in two games to be a future gem (and he didn’t have a training camp due to mono). Mahogany earned a starting spot in 2025, especially with how cheap his contract is. If you don’t make a massive trade, getting an OG could be an option in the 2nd/3rd round. Maybe you bring Zeitler back for one more year. Glasgow is a really nice extra OL and I’d keep him with a reworked contract. But Graham really lacked in pass protection later in the year and it was a weakness. At WR, I’m fine bringing Patrick back even if I would like a little more from that spot. I wouldn’t bring in Kupp unless it’s cheap (no trade, maybe like $5M, one year deal) and stay away from any guys who would bring in a bigger contract. Jameson should take another step up and we know Amon-Ra/LaPorta are great. I’d rather allocate my offensive resources to the OL and keep that unit elite.

8) The Lions have a lot of guys hitting the market but only one guy I would highly prioritize bringing back. I would bring Carlton Davis back in 2025. He was really good and was playing like an All-Pro at the end of the season. He’s had durability concerns but the reason he went on IR was friendly fire that broke his jaw on a hit under his helmet. That was a freak injury that isn’t reflective of him. I like Amik and he was admirable on the outside but him in the slot makes the team better. Terrion was fine but he wasn’t so good to trust him to be the #1 CB moving forward. Davis won’t cost a huge amount and he’s only 28. Levi played really well in 2024 considering what he had been and if he’s a $3-4M player next year I’d bring him back. Anything past $10M guaranteed and I’m out. I’d see if Melifonwu would be interested in a one year prove it deal, especially if CD walks and you can offer Ifi the slot position. Tim Patrick for $3-5M would be perfectly fine as well. If you want to bring Derrick Barnes back I’d get it but believe he will cost too much. But I would work on a new deal for Davis and go from there.

9) This would be my draft needs in order (not knowing what FA will bring): I’d focus first on the EDGE position. Even if the Lions go get a true difference maker (let’s say they give up a 2nd and 3rd for Hendrickson) I would still go get another EDGE guy in the 1st. You won’t get a true star at #28 in year one but having somebody with explosiveness they can plug in on 3rd down would be something they didn’t have last year. If I don’t make a trade and have my picks, then I would look at somebody on the OL in the second round. This is a really good OL class and they could find a cheap starter on Day 2. Then I would look at adding a S or LB in round 3, just to add some cheap depth. After that I’m thinking BPA and positions not mattering as much for Day 3.

10) Right now I have four Lions that need to take their game to another level going into 2025. I thought Jameson took a major leap forward as a more qualified #2 receiver. His hands and route running were much better than from 2023. However, he has to be better at tracking and fighting on balls. He made large strides but that next step will help the offense. Brodric Martin was taken in the 3rd round after Holmes gave up assets to get him. The probability he becomes anything after such a lackluster 2 years is low but Brad is so good at this I want to believe there is something there. I don’t need Martin to be a game wrecker, just a second string DT that can fill in and give you 15-20 playable snaps. Jack Campbell played like a Pro Bowler in 2024 and was really good. He needs to become better in pass coverage and up his game to All-Pro status. After seeing him in 2024 I think he has another level in his game I previously did not believe he had. Terrion Arnold was not a disaster as a 1st round CB, which is 75% of the battle of a high pick CB. He still has his confidence and he showed a lot of positive signs even with the major struggles. I don’t think he’s going to a #1 guy but a high level, tier below Pro Bowl level #2 CB would be a major help for Detroit in 2025.

11) Jared Goff has been excellent and a top 8 QB the last three years. He was excellent in the 2023 playoffs and I will not back down from him deserving MVP votes after his 2024 season. I think some of the narrative on him was unfair after the playoff game where his defense did him zero favors. Yes, he can’t get the ball knocked out of his hand and the pick 6 was bad. He’s not going to be as good as the core 4 in the AFC. But he has to be better at protecting the football. I wouldn’t call what happened in the Divisional Round a meltdown but there has to be a more careful approach in playoff games. I still believe he can lead Detroit to a Super Bowl victory, especially when we saw Hurts being the signal caller for the Eagles. He will have a lot of doubters with Ben Johnson taking the Bears job and usually that is when Jared thrives. While my concerns about Morton as the OC are real, I am far from being in panic mode because I believe Jared can thrive in any system he’s given (you know, as long as it’s not read option based). They still have elite skill positions, a threatening OL and Goff can still be the driving force of this offense.

12) The Lions had their best season in the Super Bowl era with a 15 win season and the first #1 seed in team history. That’s something to be proud of when you consider how bleak it was in January 2021, despite the disaster ending to the 2024 season. After Alim and CD went down, the probability this team could win the Super Bowl drastically went down. It was going to be a near impossible task to win the whole thing without your best DE, best DT and two best CB’s. The core foundation in the front office and head coach is still in place and that’s the most important thing. Yes, Ben Johnson was a valuable commodity and he was great, but Dan is the culture setter and leader in that locker room. Brad Holmes is an excellent talent evaluator and knows exactly what buttons to push. I’m not concerned long term about the franchise as long as Brad Holmes is in charge. If Morton is a disaster, you can make a change midseason or at the end of the year. Or Dan can take over and then regroup after 2025. The window is still open to me even as the team gets more expensive. The NFL cap continues and will continue to increase. Brad Holmes and Mike Disner know how to manipulate the payroll to keep the team well stocked even with some tough decisions coming up. The NFC North is going to be a bloodbath again in 2025 but this Lions franchise is not some upcoming starter company. They’re a real threat in the NFL. The next step is to get some hardware to back it up. I have a feeling that 2025 could be another major pivot point for the Detroit Lions.
As always zjc enjoy your great analysis of
Detroit football.
 
  • Like
Reactions: zjcvols

VN Store



Back
Top