The Oil Company hose job continues

[surrealvol]

What I think is amazing is everything we have to have oil for in addition to automobile gasoline. Geez, we have to use it to produce a boatload of everyday items.

I STILL detest being jerked around by a bunch of nuts!

 

[dan4vols]

Two points I did'nt see brought up in this discussion is A. Taxes....there are huge amounts of taxes on each gallon sold. Where this $ goes who know, I know you'll never see a published audit on it :ermm: and B...the oil companies haven't built a refinery since the 70's...thats a bottleneck that cause prices to rise in tandem with demand.

 

[utvolpj]

Two points I did'nt see brought up in this discussion is A. Taxes....there are huge amounts of taxes on each gallon sold. Where this $ goes who know, I know you'll never see a published audit on it :ermm: and B...the oil companies haven't built a refinery since the 70's...thats a bottleneck that cause prices to rise in tandem with demand.

See here for example. Doesn't show where it goes, but it does back up the point. I shows that a $.30-.40 increase could have been offset by the gov't if they wanted.

 

[utvolpj]

A Case Study Example

The Report begins with a case study that illustrates several important points regarding gasoline price spikes on the regional level. As a useful example, the FTC staff focused on retail gasoline prices in Phoenix, Arizona, during August 2003. Phoenix gasoline prices were $1.52 per gallon at the beginning of August 2003, but rose to $2.11 per gallon by the third week of the
month. A pipeline rupture that occurred on July 20, 2003, and the failure of temporary repairs led to reduced gasoline supplies in the Phoenix area. The reduced supplies caused the price increases. Once these disruptions were corrected, prices quickly returned to their original levels.

The Phoenix example provides three basic lessons regarding the supply of and demand for gasoline and the prices that consumers pay. First, in general, the price of gasoline reflects producers’ costs and consumers’ willingness to pay. Gasoline prices rise if it costs more to produce and supply gasoline, or if people wish to buy more gasoline at the current price. Gasoline prices fall if it costs less to produce and supply gasoline, or if people wish to buy less gasoline at the current price.

Second, how consumers respond to price changes will affect how high prices rise and how far they fall. Limited substitutes for gasoline restrict the options available to consumers to respond to price increases. Consumers can change their driving habits, walk, ride a bike, take the bus or the subway, or eventually buy more efficient vehicles, but these are difficult choices.

Third, how producers respond to price changes will affect how much prices rise or fall. In general, when there is not enough of a product to meet consumers’ demands at current prices, higher prices will signal a potential profit opportunity and may bring additional supply into the market. Phoenix is a good illustration of these principles – principles that also apply to the nation as a whole.

I experienced this first-hand. I saw people freaking out and following tanker trucks down the highway to their destination. Funny thing is, most were empty! lol: I didn't panic and only ended up buying 2 tanks at the peak of the pricing. Most people were filling cars that didn't need it and of course they were charged a premium. A little common sense goes a long way.

 

[CSpindizzy]

Two points I did'nt see brought up in this discussion is A. Taxes....there are huge amounts of taxes on each gallon sold. Where this $ goes who know, I know you'll never see a published audit on it :ermm: and B...the oil companies haven't built a refinery since the 70's...thats a bottleneck that cause prices to rise in tandem with demand.

Good point on the taxes. Right now that is the only thing holding many state governments' heads above water. I know here in GA the double tax is the only reason the state has a budget surplus. Then the governor has the audacity to brag he's managed a surplus. We're double taxed: once a flat percentage and then so many cents for every dollar. So when prices go up, the state will reap the rewards as well. The government has a vested interest in higher prices.

 

[rwemyss]

On the taxes strait... something has to pay pay for our roads and highways... I don't know how much of it is paid for by gas taxes, in fact I'm even unsure if the Federal DOT spends any $ on interstates. I've understood that the states mostly foot the bill for their road systems.

 

[kiddiedoc]

That's America. We want and want, but don't want to give. I'm completely fine with paying higher taxes for a better life. It's more important to me WHERE our money goes than how much we have to spend.

 

[CSpindizzy]

Hey I have no problem paying taxes. But when I read how much is squandered and lost (Iraq and Gulf Coast States) due to inept government employees or companies stealing, THAT is where I have a problem. We've lost millions upon millions in Iraq due to contractor fraud and all of those millions going to the Katrina area have either been bled or are still sitting in warehouses. And let's talk about good ol' pork barrel projects.

 

[rwemyss]

You're opening a whole other can of worms, CSpindizzy. What about welfare checks for people who have no intention of bettering themselves and actually working? Or paying into a Social Security program when you know that you'll never see that money again?

Let's stick to oil/gas prices.

 

[CSpindizzy]

:biggrin2: OK. Fair enough.

I see Bush must have read my "addicted like a common street junkie" comment on here about oil. I guess he thought it was good enough to put in his SoU Address last night. Maybe I need to be a speechwriter. I already know what office I want. Well I wouldn't mind one in the Old Executive Office Building either.

 

[utvolpj]

Most of the country has been calling for it for a long time. Too bad very few politicians pay it little more than lip service. Dems don't want to appear soft on the environment and Repubs don't want to offend big oil money. I'm still waiting on the day someone will stand up and present a true plan for this. That might earn my respect on this issue. Until then, same old Washington...

 

[volfan2024]

The real question is it's not about us and now it's about our children and their future.What will they do? The government needs to invest(real) money in alternative fuels now.Either take a crap or get off the pot!

 

[CSpindizzy]

No one's thinking about the future here....

The politicians are only concerned about the NOW. Energy policy, education, foreign policy, social security, etc. is all on a short term fix. Put a bandaid on a gushing, fatal wound.

 

[rwemyss]

No one's thinking about the future here....

The politicians are only concerned about the NOW. Energy policy, education, foreign policy, social security, etc. is all on a short term fix. Put a bandaid on a gushing, fatal wound.

Very true... but isn't this attitude one of the major faults of the human condition? Not looking out for the future? Think about all the people that aren't saving for retirement, or are actually deep in DEBT in their 20s/30s... maybe its more about the American condition, now that I think about it...

 

[OWB]

Very true... but isn't this attitude one of the major faults of the human condition? Not looking out for the future?

Yes, that and not learning from the past.

 

[WA_Vol]

The real question is what the hell can we do about it :aggressive: :aggressive:

ethanol, biodiesel.

 

[Volunteer]

There is a big difference in profits and profit margins...if you go back and look at the numbers, the profit MARGINS have not increased..the PROFITS have increased as a result of increased consumption....Here it is in simple terms for you liberals on the board....

$10 gas sold at 10% profit= $1 in profit
$20 gas sold at 10% profti=$2 in profit

What the liberally biased media wants you to think is that the difference between 2 and 1 is simply they have made more money on gas, that is untrue and a regular distortion of the facts.

What can we do about it? How about lessen our dependence on foreign oil.. okay, you do that then you gotta find oil elsewhere....hey, I know, how about Alaska? Can't do that because you gotta get through Ted Kennedy and Nancy Pelosi ...

People, I drive about 40,000 miles per year, that is a lot of gas money, I probably spend about 5 grand on gas in a year. I have a right to bitch, but I am also smart enough to not be deceived.

 

[Volunteer]

By the way, supply and demand is the basis of a free economy, what is the big problem with a company making more money? I don't get it.

I made more profits in 2004 than I did in 2005, does that make me a bad business man?????

 

[GAVol]

Oil profits make easy targets for populist politicians.

 

[Crakaveli]

Weapon of choice... "OIL!"

by, Mark Christopher

Opec is apparently unhappy with President Bush's assertion that we need to rid our nation's dependence on Middle East Oil.

An Opec delegate said: "Comments like that are unrealistic. Everyone knows the world will continue to depend on Middle East imports." The organization would raise concerns about such statements damping investment at meetings with the European Union and other organisations "more aligned with Opec's view".

Excuse me?

EVERYONE KNOWS THE WORLD WILL CONTINUE TO DEPENED ON MIDDLE EAST IMPORTS?

That's precisely the attitude that has emboldened thugs like Iraq's Saddam Hussein or Iran's Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to thumb their nose at and/or threaten the world community. Or to openly call for the annihilation of Israel and the murder of all Jews (as well as the "West")

Even today, Iran has threatened to cut off the world from its oil if we try to stop them from developing nuclear weapons. It's worth noting that Iran is not using its oil revenue to better the lives of its people. The Government is using the worlds oil needs to fund homicide bombers who murder Jews, or to attempt to build nuclear weapons (which btw, they don't want to use as a deterrent as we do, or as Israel does. They wish to use them in hopes of destroying Israel and the United States).

The threats from OPEC validate President Bush and give us all the more reason to find ways to blow off Middle East oil. We should be developing alternative energy sources... AND..... drilling in ANWR.

Those who have opposed drilling in ANWR have a lot to answer for in light of these latest threats from OPEC.

 

[jdsa]

Based on everything I've heard on the subject, there's not enough oil in ANWR to make a big difference in global oil prices one way or another. So I don't think ANWR is much of a solution to high oil prices.

Going forward probably the best solution to high oil prices is to find alternatives like ethanol or biodiesel, or other cleanly generated sources of electric. I think all of the major oil fields on the planet have been developed at this point, and if you subscribe to peak oil theory in any way, the major fields may be producing less and less each year going forward, making oil only more scarce and valuable.

As Greenspan has said, when the price of oil makes alternatives viable to produce and use, they will be.

Unless, of course, the oil companys/opec/etc use their somewhat ill-gotten lucre to influence the free market that is.

 

[utvolpj]

By the way, supply and demand is the basis of a free economy, what is the big problem with a company making more money? I don't get it.

I made more profits in 2004 than I did in 2005, does that make me a bad business man?????

Depends on your budget. :biggrin2:

I feel the same way. My co. is $7 billion and our GP% was much bigger than Exxon's. Big numbers scare people.

 

[wncvolfan]

Depends on your budget. :biggrin2:

I. Big numbers scare people.

Yeah, especially when the big numbers are coming out of my household budget and luxury items like good food or an occasional dinner out, cable tv, an occasional round of golf, DSL, and a decent car suddenly have to be considered as sacrifices to big oil's puny profit margins. My heart bleeds for poor unfortunate Exxon-Mobile and the rest of those theiving bas---ds! There are too many in the same boat I'm in. I 'm in middle management and I've always made enough to have a few extra's. I didn't work my A$$ off for 40 years getting a little ahead just to turn around and fork it over to THEM in my later years. I guess if I made a half a mil a year, it wouldn't hurt so much.

 

[volfan2024]

One thing is true, the media is one big SLANT! Just like the coverage on J.Hinkley,Jr. They made you think everyone pleads insanity, everyone gets off. Bull, a small,small, % of people wind up not guilty by reason of insanity.Read the stats.

 

[utvolpj]

Yeah, especially when the big numbers are coming out of my household budget and luxury items like good food or an occasional dinner out, cable tv, an occasional round of golf, DSL, and a decent car suddenly have to be considered as sacrifices to big oil's puny profit margins. My heart bleeds for poor unfortunate Exxon-Mobile and the rest of those theiving bas---ds! There are too many in the same boat I'm in. I 'm in middle management and I've always made enough to have a few extra's. I didn't work my A$$ off for 40 years getting a little ahead just to turn around and fork it over to THEM in my later years. I guess if I made a half a mil a year, it wouldn't hurt so much.

Actually my budget comment was a joke directed at Volunteer and pertained to his salesmanship.

During 2005 Exxon-Mobil made 36.13 billion on 371 billion in revenues or 9.74% net profit. Now, if that is raping the public you need to compare your company to that net profit percentage. Don't be misguided by the big numbers.

Does your company turn out better numbers than this? I know mine does and I sure hope others do as well. To be honest, a 9.74% profit does not even show up in our salesman compensation scale. It starts at 12%. Am I taking advantage of the public? No. Do I provide a product that is available through other vendors? Sure I do.

The funny thing is that a gallon of bottled water costs more than a gallon of gas but no one complains about that. It's just big numbers made to get a reaction and it works. Once you drill it down it is not that impressive.