The Purdue Pharma Sacklers

#51
#51
There's another class of drugs that people are finding virtually impossible to quit. The industry likes to use the term dependence rather than addiction because there's no craving for the drug ... the body simply doesn't tolerate it being discontinued. That is SSRIs or selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors used primarily for depression, and there are lots of docs and shrinks getting people started on them. I have a family member going through the withdrawal process - for well over a year now with no lessening of the issues; the worst issues are sleep, balance and falls, and mood swings. It's not simply a reoccurrence of the original symptoms; this gets into physical issues that were never there before. A list compiled by Harvard researchers includes the following:

  • Digestive. You may have nausea, vomiting, cramps, diarrhea, or loss of appetite.
  • Blood vessel control. You may sweat excessively, flush, or find hot weather difficult to tolerate.
  • Sleep changes. You may have trouble sleeping and unusual dreams or nightmares.
  • Balance. You may become dizzy or lightheaded or feel like you don't quite have your "sea legs" when walking.
  • Control of movements. You may experience tremors, restless legs, uneven gait, and difficulty coordinating speech and chewing movements.
  • Unwanted feelings. You may have mood swings or feel agitated, anxious, manic, depressed, irritable, or confused — even paranoid or suicidal.
  • Strange sensations. You may have pain or numbness; you may become hypersensitive to sound or sense a ringing in your ears; you may experience "brain-zaps" — a feeling that resembles an electric shock to your head — or a sensation that some people describe as "brain shivers."

There doesn't seem to be any urgency within the medical profession or FDA to either warn patients or to stop further application of the drugs. The longer a patient has used the SSRIs the more dependent the body generally becomes. Apparently these things take class action lawsuits that threaten everybody from the prescriber to the manufacturer to make a change. It's obvious that knowing doesn't result in either pulling the drug from circulation or in adequate warnings to both prescribers and patients. Even the articles discussing the topic make it sound minimal and not everyone will be affected, but evidence seems to be more and more that they will and with longer use the problem escalates.
 
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#52
#52
marcusluvsvols said:
This is the sad truth. For chronic severe pain we don't have anything BUT opiates. NSAIDs like ibuprofen and naproxen only work to reduce inflammation in mild cases and for things like muscle soreness etc. For people who have pinched nerves such as from bulging discs or bone fragments like i had....opiates are the only thing that would touch it. My sciatic nerve (large nerve that runs from spine down to your heel and controls an entire leg) was 70% impinged (smooshed) by bone fragments wedged between my vertebrae. They removed 1 fragment the size of a pencil eraser. Then fused the bottom 3 vertebrae together with titanium rods and screws. Finally got rid of most of my back pain. Heres the problem: that was my 2nd back surgery. Before my garbage Bluecross insurance would help pay for EITHER of my 2 surgeries i had to 1st go thru physical therapy...then have injections straight into my spine with steroids (twice) all of which had at least 6 months of wait time between them. Of course ALL of this time i had to take doctor prescribed opiates just to be able to walk and function, i am a construction superintendent and spend most of my time at work on my feet and outside. So from when i went on pain pills before my 1st injections and surgery until after recovery from my 2nd surgery.....took about 6 years. 6 years of taking pain pills everyday. Studies show that just taking the weakest common opiates (hydrocodone) for 30 days causes addiction and physical dependence in a big chunk of people. Between a third and half of them maybe 40% IIRC.....what about 6 years of taking them 3 times a day as prescribed...plus Oxycodone after both surgeries for a while? I never stood a chance. The only question was whether I could beat the addiction....not whether or not i was gonna be addicted and physically dependent (which are 2 different terrible things). While my primary care Dr prescribed me all those pills, there really was no alternative. I blame my insurance company for dragging a process out 6 years that should have been maybe 1 year. I also blame myself for all the trouble i have had getting off of them over the years. My Dr just used the only tool available to help me function and support my family.
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Medicare quit covering the steroid injections and went to RF ablation. The steroid injections were more effective, less time consuming, and only require local anesthesia. The steroid injections are more painful because you don't have general anesthesia, but they worked better.
 
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#53
#53
AM64 said:
There's another class of drugs that people are finding virtually impossible to quit. The industry likes to use the term dependence rather than addiction because there's no craving for the drug ... the body simply doesn't tolerate it being discontinued. That is SSRIs or selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors used primarily for depression, and there are lots of docs and shrinks getting people started on them. I have a family member going through the withdrawal process - for well over a year now with no lessening of the issues; the worst issues are sleep, balance and falls, and mood swings. It's not simply a reoccurrence of the original symptoms; this gets into physical issues that were never there before. A list compiled by Harvard researchers includes the following:

  • Digestive. You may have nausea, vomiting, cramps, diarrhea, or loss of appetite.
  • Blood vessel control. You may sweat excessively, flush, or find hot weather difficult to tolerate.
  • Sleep changes. You may have trouble sleeping and unusual dreams or nightmares.
  • Balance. You may become dizzy or lightheaded or feel like you don't quite have your "sea legs" when walking.
  • Control of movements. You may experience tremors, restless legs, uneven gait, and difficulty coordinating speech and chewing movements.
  • Unwanted feelings. You may have mood swings or feel agitated, anxious, manic, depressed, irritable, or confused — even paranoid or suicidal.
  • Strange sensations. You may have pain or numbness; you may become hypersensitive to sound or sense a ringing in your ears; you may experience "brain-zaps" — a feeling that resembles an electric shock to your head — or a sensation that some people describe as "brain shivers."

There doesn't seem to be any urgency within the medical profession or FDA to either warn patients or to stop further application of the drugs. The longer a patient has used the SSRIs the more dependent the body generally becomes. Apparently these things take class action lawsuits that threaten everybody from the prescriber to the manufacturer to make a change. It's obvious that knowing doesn't result in either pulling the drug from circulation or in adequate warnings to both prescribers and patients. Even the articles discussing the topic make it sound minimal and not everyone will be affected, but evidence seems to be more and more that they will and with longer use the problem escalates.
Click to expand...


The REAL kicker about this situation is that after many, many studies doctors have confirmed that serotonin uptake and therefore SSRIs do NOT treat depression at all. Outcomes are the same as placebos after decades and decades of clinical studies. So everyone whose brain is now jacked up and reprogrammed by them....did so for no reason based on bad medical advice. A sugar pill is equally effective at treating depression. I have struggled with depression in the past and been on Sertraline which is a common SSRI. More good times there lol. Also had horrible medical malpractice when they scoped my bladder which i have posted about before. The medical community in my life has not been good at all. I understand that my experience is subjective though...and that I have always had horrible luck. Thats why I dont gamble.
 
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#54
#54
AM64 said:
There's a book and miniseries - Dopesick; it gives a pretty good accounting for what Purdue Pharma was doing. Some of the issue gets back to the FDA no longer conducting drug trials and leaving that up to drug manufacturers - with the FDA not getting involved in the process or asking too many questions. Purdue was working up fancy charts about dosage, safety, and efficacy; as I recall they had a habit of playing with the scales to distort the safety aspects. They also kept coming up with stronger "safe" strengths as people became more addicted and bodies weren't responding as well to the earlier dose. The Sacklers knew what they were doing both in how they were deceiving doctors and the FDA and that they were counting on addicted patients to keep the demand going - and going for stronger doses.
Click to expand...

They weren’t deceiving the FDA they were buying them off.
 
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#57
#57
PEPPERJAX said:
I blame the doctors that told their patients to remove the coating off of the oxys, crush them, and toot them with a straw. This alteration changed the game.
Click to expand...
Given the number of pills being prescribed that was 100% sure to happen. The root problem was massive overkill on prescriptions due to Purdue's unethical practices.
 
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#58
#58
InVOLuntary said:
I was prescribed oxycontin when I had my tonsils removed at 47 yo. Didn't take them. My brother in law, a pharmacist said it was such a low dose that it wouldn't be an issue. Still.didnt take them. They had me on liquid hydrocodone every 4 hours. I did take that stuff until I couldn't stand it any longer.
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Maybe some people are more predisposed to them. After shoulder surgery 10 years ago the doc prescribed oxycodone for pain. Nurse told me to start it before the nerve block wore off because it's easier to control pain before it starts. I took it for around 4-5 days but I never saw what the big deal was. Never saw what made people want to take them. It was like taking advil or tylenol for me. I quit after 4-5 days, when I realized they cause constipation as a side effect.
 
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#59
#59
TheDeeble said:
Maybe some people are more predisposed to them. After shoulder surgery 10 years ago the doc prescribed oxycodone for pain. Nurse told me to start it before the nerve block wore off because it's easier to control pain before it starts. I took it for around 4-5 days but I never saw what the big deal was. Never saw what made people want to take them. It was like taking advil or tylenol for me. I quit after 4-5 days, but that's because I realized they cause constipation as a side effect.
Click to expand...
I 100% think some are predisposed to addiction. I think there is a genetic component to it. When I was on the liquid stuff after my tonsillectomy, I got sick of the feeling of being in a daze. I hated it. Got off of it and went ibuprofen. Dr called and threatened to kick my asp if I didn't get off the ibuprofen because of bleeding. So I was back on it. I hate the stuff. Some just have a undying need for it.
 
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#60
#60
Different people are predisposed to different addictions...alcohol, opiates, smokes, weed, food, money, sex, material things like shopping, shoes, jewelry....whatever gives them pleasure IMO
 
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#63
#63
InVOLuntary said:
I 100% think some are predisposed to addiction. I think there is a genetic component to it. When I was on the liquid stuff after my tonsillectomy, I got sick of the feeling of being in a daze. I hated it. Got off of it and went ibuprofen. Dr called and threatened to kick my asp if I didn't get off the ibuprofen because of bleeding. So I was back on it. I hate the stuff. Some just have a undying need for it.
Click to expand...

That issue of bleeding and needing something like aspirin or ibuprofen is a real problem. I was on blood thinners for about three years after heat surgeries and couldn't use a lot of stuff. It's tough finding something that works when Tylenol doesn't do anything. Even regular Alka-Seltzer for an upset stomach is out because of aspirin. There is Alka-Seltzer Gold which doesn't contain aspirin, but it tastes worse than the regular stuff.
 
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