The Spread

#26
#26
I think CBJ hinted at the fact the tempo was going to be fast with no-huddle and to wear down your opponents. We haven't had real speed on this team in years and we need it on both ides of the ball.
 
#28
#28
orange_peel said:
You win championships by having a physical running game on offense and a physical defense that is able to stop the run. If you can run the ball it opens up the play action pass. UT will never win a championship with a finesse gimmick offense.
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Did you even read or understand what the spread is? No you didnt. Its not a gimmic offense no matter how much uninformed people say it is. The pro-style offense has lost as many games as the spread this year, why? because a) the other team had more talent or b) the defense just played better that day. Same reason a Spread team would. If your alabama or usc and can get every big offensive line commit around you can cram it down a teams throat. Thats not gonna happen very much.
 
#30
#30
LocoVol said:
Did you even read or understand what the spread is? No you didnt. Its not a gimmic offense no matter how much uninformed people say it is. The pro-style offense has lost as many games as the spread this year, why? because a) the other team had more talent or b) the defense just played better that day. Same reason a Spread team would. If your alabama or usc and can get every big offensive line commit around you can cram it down a teams throat. Thats not gonna happen very much.
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how many spread teams have won the past 10 bcs champs and/or superbowls?
 
#31
#31
Gators, Saints, Texas, Auburn, Patriots, Packers off the top of my head. Next?

also you wanna count the West Coast since it was built on the concepts?

oh and tell Texas A & M they cant beat bama with that gimmic so they stop with the silly stuff!
 
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#32
#32
LocoVol said:
Gators, Saints, Texas, Auburn, Patriots, Packers off the top of my head. Next?

also you wanna count the West Coast since it was built on the concepts?
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Gators & Auburn ran the single wing. The Patriots didn't run the spread in their last SB win.

The west coast offense is different than the spread.
 
#34
#34
I'm not trying to be some pretentious braggart here, but I blogged about this previously and I see many faults with certain points in this thread. How can anyone truthfully define an offense by a name such as "spread" or "pro-style?" The terms have been so liberally spoken in recent years that one really can't come to a consensus on what they mean. If it consists of running 10 personnel. Well, you can do that from compressed sets and formations to the boundary or field. If it consists of using large splits from the X, Z, Y with one-back, well, you could do the same with any variation of personnel. 20, 12, 21, 22, etcetera. And within this misnomer, you have an air raid offense which could be divided into two camps--Leach camp and Franklin camp who do things in a different fashion. You could have the Erickson, Tiller, Price camp. Keep in mind that Petrino, the renown "pro-style" guru who uses all of their terminology. Could be Art Briles who has his split-end lined up nearly on the sideline. Does no-huddle qualify as "spread?" It could be in all honesty, anything. It's all nonsense. To label any team as "pro-style" or "spread" simply based upon whether they align under center or shotgun or simply have one-back. Each and every one of these assumptions is pretentious. Media and fans will use the term "pro-style" as if they have a schematic advantage and one in which requires skill. If it is simply aligning under-center, then this is the most foolish thing I have heard. The Patriots probably go under center around 30-35% of the season. The majority of that is from what they call 1 or 0 On--12 with two tight-ends on LOS--in which they are running Sprint 38/39 (Outside Zone) or play action pass from this. If it isn't that, Brady is running a QB sneak or they're on goal line. If the "pros" are going from gun, what does that make everyone else? The game is so homogeneous at this point. Everyone shares concepts. Those crazy "spread" teams like Leach and Holgorsen or Sumlin. All of those plays came from Norm Chow at BYU. Chow took them Doug Scovil who got them from the league. Those concepts originated from Sid Gillman. Where did Bill Walsh learn his offense? Paul Brown and Al Davis. The majority of Davis' schooling coming from Sid. Urban Meyer loves "Panther" and "Follow". Panther being the same exact concept that Chow called 62 in which Mumme called 92. This entire thing is an elaborate idea from coaches and media. Well, if the fans think I'm "pro-style," I must be more knowledgeable than these gimmick teams. I'm simply a better coach. They'll trust me, it's what the best of the best do. It's hilarious when these teams are running half of these same concepts from larger splits and stacked alignments to get a bunched release. These clueless coaches, running "Y-stick" and "Y-sail" over and over again--Tony Franklin. The same concepts coming straight out of the 1982 San Francisco 49ers playbook. What we are witnessing is a commitment to concision and an allowance of a human-mind, one in which belonging to a player, to act before thinking. Walsh outlined this in his coaching bible, "Finding the Winning Edge." Noel Mazzone, Tony Franklin, and some others are way ahead of the median coaching ideology. Applying such a broad sweep of offenses is in my honest opinion, missing the point. You run what you know. You run what you can with your players. You do whatever it takes to win ballgames. This is of foremost importance.
 
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#35
#35
"West Coast Offense", "Fun and Gun Offense", "Spread Offense" etc. there are neances that seperate them but basically you have WRs running in crossing or post patterns while TE run into the flat and a RB is the safety valve. With the proper play calling, defenses struggle to keep up (on average).

The point is you must be creative and nimble on offense to win 10+ games in most seasons. Your QB in most of these schemes needs to be a legitimate running threat who can pick up 3-7 yards scrambling if necessary. In passing situations, the QB has to have a quick release and go through his progressions quickly.

If this works in harmony, you win most games. Considering UT's current state of affairs and the talent imbalance (especially next year with TB, CP, JH, ZR and the TE leaving) we need what CBJ is selling.
 
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#36
#36
*...excuse me...*

I meant to type "nuances".

(there he goes typing without his glasses again....)
 
#37
#37
Well said Bam. The point is "the spread" is not "A offense". Its can be refined to meet a coach and his idea of an offense. NCAA teams do it, Pro teams use it in parts and some other offenses were built on the concepts. "IT" waorks in various styles even if some think gimmic or not.
 
#38
#38
tri_vol said:
Gators & Auburn ran the single wing. The Patriots didn't run the spread in their last SB win.

The west coast offense is different than the spread.
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No! Im not gonna go research it for you but you can. WCO was built off spread concepts, Call Urban and tell him he didnt run spread and yes AU ran spread. Narrow your definition of the spread if you lke but it does not change what those teams did and the fact it worked.

An Interview with Urban Meyer: His Offensive Background and Philosophy in His Own Words (With Annotations) | Eleven Warriors
 
#39
#39
OrangeByBirth said:
The issue with a "spread" is that you have 5 to block 7. The good part is that there are 4 to cover 4. It is a numbers game. If you get the right match-up, you can move the ball. If you don't, you go backwards.
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It is a numbers game, if there are 7 in the box you throw it, if there are 5 you run it... Most "spreads" keep a TE/H back in to gain an advantage in the run game these days, or they have a mobile QB to have a 2 back threat.
 
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#40
#40
There is no such thing as "the spread". There are many forms if the spread and you can run virtually any offense known to man out if it. Leech's spread us totally different from Kelly's and malzahns is closer to a veer wing t hybrid spread than any of them. Then there's pistol which is just I firm from the spread formation...
 
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#42
#42
#43
#43
MSCE09 said:
The spread might be perfect for us. What does the spread do? It allows teams with somewhat less talent compete. If we can't go back to the 90s when Bama, UGA and LSU were terrible and we get all their talent. Going to a system that hides some of the talent discrepancy might be the way to go.
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That seems rational, but exactly the opposite is actually the case. To run the spread, you need top athletes with lots of speed. If it were as simple as it is made out, then everyone would run it. WRs must be good enough to demand safety help and not be covered one on one. That alone will kill the spread instantly. QB really should be a runner as well. Smaller, quicker backs with receiver abilities is also preferred. This type of offense produces very little time of possession, which puts your defense at a disadvantage no matter how good it is.
The good thing about the spread is that it can be tweaked in many different ways to accomodate different players skill sets.
 
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#45
#45
Lawrence Wright said:
Oregon has a decided speed advantage compared to every other PAC-12 team not named USC, yet they historically struggle with Stanford, the closest thing to an SEC-style team in the trenches.
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Hard to argue this. The struggled bad vs a bad Auburn defense a few years ago.
 
#46
#46
utvols74 said:
"West Coast Offense", "Fun and Gun Offense", "Spread Offense" etc. there are neances that seperate them but basically you have WRs running in crossing or post patterns while TE run into the flat and a RB is the safety valve. With the proper play calling, defenses struggle to keep up (on average).

The point is you must be creative and nimble on offense to win 10+ games in most seasons. Your QB in most of these schemes needs to be a legitimate running threat who can pick up 3-7 yards scrambling if necessary. In passing situations, the QB has to have a quick release and go through his progressions quickly.

If this works in harmony, you win most games. Considering UT's current state of affairs and the talent imbalance (especially next year with TB, CP, JH, ZR and the TE leaving) we need what CBJ is selling.
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Amen. Games are won by who is better that day. Labeling the scheme is really ridiculous. No one on this board has more coaching knowledge than this current staff to definitively say they won't succeed. Just because people have a right to their opinion doesn't mean its not stupid.
 
#47
#47
darkgable said:
Amen. Games are won by who is better that day. Labeling the scheme is really ridiculous. No one on this board has more coaching knowledge than this current staff to definitively say they won't succeed. Just because people have a right to their opinion doesn't mean its not stupid.
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I would venture to say that no one anywhere can definitively say they wont succeed. And vice versa. This scheme, or whatever you prefer to call it, is a more modern approach to football and may be highly effective. On the other hand, it may fail miserably against the type of defenses that reside in the SEC. Hopefully, CBJ is a good coach and will be flexible enough to adapt his offense to his players and his competition.
 
#48
#48
LocoVol said:
No! Im not gonna go research it for you but you can. WCO was built off spread concepts, Call Urban and tell him he didnt run spread and yes AU ran spread. Narrow your definition of the spread if you lke but it does not change what those teams did and the fact it worked.

An Interview with Urban Meyer: His Offensive Background and Philosophy in His Own Words (With Annotations) | Eleven Warriors
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May have been built off spread concepts but its not the spread. As other posters have said better than I, there are many variations to this offense and good coaches will incorporate aspects of it into their offense.

The fact remains that the spread offense like Oregon runs & Meyer's version struggle against experienced d lines that tackle well in space. Even Meyer admitted that in the interview you linked. That's why Saban beat him like a red headed step child.

I'm not saying its a gimmick or junk offense. Rather I believe it works well in college but if your gonna win a NC you better have the best player in the game running it.
 
#49
#49
1. I don't friggin' care what the offense schematic design may be.
2. The best coaches will find a way to develop the best players.
3. Go get the best players and develop them some more.
4. Get more of the best players and keep developing them.
5. Put many of them on defense and keep developing those, too.
6. The wins will come. The best team usually wins. Great teams find ways to win.
 
#50
#50
tri_vol said:
May have been built off spread concepts but its not the spread. As other posters have said better than I, there are many variations to this offense and good coaches will incorporate aspects of it into their offense.

The fact remains that the spread offense like Oregon runs & Meyer's version struggle against experienced d lines that tackle well in space. Even Meyer admitted that in the interview you linked. That's why Saban beat him like a red headed step child.

I'm not saying its a gimmick or junk offense. Rather I believe it works well in college but if your gonna win a NC you better have the best player in the game running it.
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Either Meyer ran a primarily "spread" offense or he didn't. Please pick your argument and stick with it. You say that UM's offense wasn't a spread, so his NCs didn't count as being won by a spread team. Then you pointed out the weakness of spread offenses by showing that Saban beat UM's spread offense handily.

Which is it?

Yes, UM's spread offense won NCs. Yes, Saban beat them handily. Saban beat many teams handily, and very few NCs are won on undefeated seasons.

:hi:
 
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