the stars and bars

#101
#101
VolunteerHillbilly said:
And that was back in the days when every pickup truck in GA had a "Forget Zell" bumber sticker.
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You're behind the times. The flaggers have evolved from "Forget Zell" to "Boot Barnes" to "Sonny Lied". It's possibly the most idiotic thing I can think of to be a single issue voter on. :wacko:
 
#102
#102
GAVol said:
You're behind the times. The flaggers have evolved from "Forget Zell" to "Boot Barnes" to "Sonny Lied". It's possibly the most idiotic thing I can think of to be a single issue voter on. :wacko:
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Yeah, I can remember how wrapped up in that issue some people were. I had some fraternity brothers who were pretty militant about it. I did kind of appreciate the back-handed insult that the UDC threw out when they advocated changing the state flag to remove any confederate insignia on the basis that they did not want "certain people" saluting their revered symbols.
 
#103
#103
I understand that the following passage is from a historical novel, and therefore it is a fictional account, however, I think it sums up the argument pretty well:
We were talking to these three Reb prisoners, trying to be sociable, you know? But mainly trying to figure 'em out. There were farm-type fellers. We asked them why they were fighting this war, thinking on slavery and all, and one fella said they was fightin' for their 'rats.' Hee. That's what he said. We all thought they was crazy, but we hadn't heard a-right. They kept on insistin' they wasn't fightin' for no slaves, they were fightin for their 'rats.' It finally dawned on me that what the feller meant was their 'rights,' only, they way they talk, it came out 'rats.' Hee. Then after that I asked this fella what rights he had that we were offendin', and he said, well, he didn't know, but he must have some rights he didn't know nothing about.

Shaara, Michael. The Killer Angels
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#104
#104
I've always liked the line about the Billy Yank who asked Johnny Reb why he was fighting and Johnny replied "becuase you're here." Obviously, that doesn't cover the S.Carolinians who started the shooting, but I think it does apply to a lot of people who had no other motivation to go to war. That, and the possibility to see something of the world.
 
#105
#105
i guess you fellas think custer and sherman were hero's. when mr. sherman started his little burning adventure across the south to humble it forever it must have made you guy's swell with pride considering all that was left to kill were women and children. the southern army was using rocks and sticks trying to stop the yankee advance at the battle of lookout mountain. the yankee army stole and burned everything in their path. the government then raised taxes so high on what homes and property was left in the south that nobody who survived the war even had a home to come back to. then came the wonderful carpetbaggers. the yankees were so proud of themselves that they freed the slaves. and the wonderful people up north, they just opened their arms and welcomed all those ex-slaves. took them in their homes, gave them all high paying jobs! get real guys and learn the real history of the horrible war. the north didnt give a about the blacks. the government was nothing but a bunch of lying, double talking jerks. if you want to fall for all that honorable that the yankees have dished out then you go right ahead thats your right. but if you look back just a few years ago the NAACP was saying that the state flag of Tennessee was also racist. if you want to rewrite history to make yourselves feel better than go ahead. our government is really great at printing their side of history. but go on out west and get the American Indians' side of American history. ask them what they think of custer and the US calvery. and as far as blaming southern officers, well your wrong on that one to. what southern officers were left after the war were stripped of all rank. most never served in the army ever again. so that just leaves all those god loving, humanity loving soldiers that went west and murdered the indian nations. look up the history of chief joseph and the Nezperz indian tribe. look who was president at the time. look at who the secretary of the army was at the time. believe what you wish, but please dont dish out this sanctimonious ******** of how wonderful the northern army was and how evil the south was..........
 
#106
#106
melissa hyberger said:
i guess you fellas think custer and sherman were hero's. when mr. sherman started his little burning adventure across the south to humble it forever it must have made you guy's swell with pride considering all that was left to kill were women and children. the southern army was using rocks and sticks trying to stop the yankee advance at the battle of lookout mountain. the yankee army stole and burned everything in their path. the government then raised taxes so high on what homes and property was left in the south that nobody who survived the war even had a home to come back to. then came the wonderful carpetbaggers. the yankees were so proud of themselves that they freed the slaves. and the wonderful people up north, they just opened their arms and welcomed all those ex-slaves. took them in their homes, gave them all high paying jobs! get real guys and learn the real history of the horrible war. the north didnt give a **** about the blacks. the government was nothing but a bunch of lying, double talking jerks. if you want to fall for all that honorable ******** that the yankees have dished out then you go right ahead thats your right. but if you look back just a few years ago the NAACP was saying that the state flag of Tennessee was also racist. if you want to rewrite history to make yourselves feel better than go ahead. our government is really great at printing their side of history. but go on out west and get the American Indians' side of American history. ask them what they think of custer and the US calvery. and as far as blaming southern officers, well your wrong on that one to. what southern officers were left after the war were stripped of all rank. most never served in the army ever again. so that just leaves all those god loving, humanity loving soldiers that went west and murdered the indian nations. look up the history of chief joseph and the Nezperz indian tribe. look who was president at the time. look at who the secretary of the army was at the time. believe what you wish, but please dont dish out this sanctimonious ******** of how wonderful the northern army was and how evil the south was..........
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Nice rant! Just curious what is has to do with. :good!:

:peace2:

The war was terrible all the way around, I will argue the desolation of the Shenandoah was far worse than any thing Sherman did on his march.
 
#107
#107
you can argue away. i had family in Virginia and Tennessee and learned first hand from my great-grandparents what a swell guy sherman was.
 
#108
#108
melissa hyberger said:
you can argue away. i had family in Virginia and Tennessee and learned first hand from my great-grandparents what a swell guy sherman was.
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Well, if your great-grandparents said it, it must be true...

Sherman and Grant were brilliant military men. Also, after all the brutality Southerners inflicted on "the negros", I have no sympathy for anyone who lost their plantation and way of life in Sherman's march to the sea...none, whatsoever.
 
#110
#110
therealUT said:
Well, if your great-grandparents said it, it must be true...

Sherman and Grant were brilliant military men. Also, after all the brutality Southerners inflicted on "the negros", I have no sympathy for anyone who lost their plantation and way of life in Sherman's march to the sea...none, whatsoever.
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On a side note, no southern officer ever did any thing wrong to their own or the union........:whistling:

Conscription wasn't exactly a hit.....
 
#111
#111
therealUT said:
Well, if your great-grandparents said it, it must be true...

Sherman and Grant were brilliant military men. Also, after all the brutality Southerners inflicted on "the negros", I have no sympathy for anyone who lost their plantation and way of life in Sherman's march to the sea...none, whatsoever.
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Sherman, I agree. Grant had tenacity, perhaps brought on by an alcohol-induced death wish. Either way, both were effective. Why aren't our current leaders following the tried and true formula of total war?
 
#112
#112
melissa hyberger said:
lets go ahead and outlaw the song Dixie while we are at it. might as well go ahead and dig up all the confederate dead and piss on their bones. and while we are at it lets go ahead and destroy every monument dedicated to the confederate dead. the sorry yankee bastards would not even recognize the confederate dead on memorial day. thats why memorial day was not celebrated in the southern states for years.
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Can we add Nascar to the list please?
 
#114
#114
melissa hyberger said:
go on out west and get the American Indians' side of American history. ask them what they think of custer and the US calvery. and as far as blaming southern officers, well your wrong on that one to. what southern officers were left after the war were stripped of all rank. most never served in the army ever again. so that just leaves all those god loving, humanity loving soldiers that went west and murdered the indian nations. look up the history of chief joseph and the Nezperz indian tribe. look who was president at the time. look at who the secretary of the army was at the time. believe what you wish, but please dont dish out this sanctimonious ******** of how wonderful the northern army was and how evil the south was..........
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I guess Andrew Jackson and the "Trail of Tears" is an indictment against the North? Also, didn't Lee get his first taste of war against the Mexicans and the Indians? How about Stonewall Jackson, Longstreet, Bragg, etc.? What were they doing prior to the Civil War? And, speaking of 'honor', exactly what did Forrest do after the war?

Thanks again for the comic relief.
 
#115
#115
Weird how the winner and supporters of a won engaement get so arrogant in their opinions. If the South had half the industrial assets the North enjoyed specifically weapons production the civil war may have went the other way dramatically...the 1st major battles of the civil war were lopsided slaughters on the north by the south untill supplies and refitting became an issue.
 
#116
#116
dan4vols said:
Weird how the winner and supporters of a won engaement get so arrogant in their opinions. If the South had half the industrial assets the North enjoyed specifically weapons production the civil war may have went the other way dramatically...the 1st major battles of the civil war were lopsided slaughters on the north by the south untill supplies and refitting became an issue.
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It is weird how people try to actually make this argument. An industrial disadvantage did not keep the CCF from defeating the Nationalists. An industrial disadvantage in now way kept the Northern Alliance from defeating the USSR. An industrial disadvantage did not keep the NVA and Vietcong from forcing the American military to withdraw.

The South lost because their military was inferior to that of the North. This inferiority can probably be summed up by saying that the two Officers who wanted to remain engaged in defensive warfare, ultimately exhausting public opinion in the North, were largely ignored (Longstreet and Johnston).
 
#117
#117
Military in the south was VERY political. When units were mustered, officers were typically elected from the men and happened to be the 'popular' figures of the area such as politicians, landholders, slaveowners.
 
#118
#118
As for Sherman, say what you must. I had family fighting under his command in Atlanta against other family fighting against them. Strange thing is that family who fought each other at Kennesaw Mtn. saw the Union vet's son marry the Confederate vet's daughter.

Sherman did what had to be done. He broke the spirit of the people he fought against. He destroyed the heart of the Confederacy's supplies....factories, rails, farms, etc. If he hadn't done what he did, the war could have very well dragged on for another few years with southerners subject to deeper starvation, disease, plague, and an even greater destruction of the south. In a way, it is close to the line of thinking of using an atomic bomb on Japan.
 
#124
#124
VolunteerHillbilly said:
Probably won't be all that sophisitcated. Just stick it in a shipping container and once the GPS tells 'em that the ship is in port...
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So, we are talking about an "unsophisticated" nuclear warhead?

Can you explain this "simple" device to us?

Unsophisticated terrorist schemes would be along the lines of infecting "martyrs" with small pox and buying that person a ticket to a UT football game.

Unsophisticated would not include stowing a large nuclear warhead into a container ship (large enough to blow the container ship, the port, and the town beyond), programming it with GPS coordinates, and then assuring that it blows at the time in which the maximum amount of people would be in the kill zone.
 
#125
#125
therealUT said:
Unsophisticated would not include stowing a large nuclear warhead into a container ship (large enough to blow the container ship, the port, and the town beyond), programming it with GPS coordinates, and then assuring that it blows at the time in which the maximum amount of people would be in the kill zone.
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Why would you have to program it with GPS coordinates?
 
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