The statement so far that bolsters my hope most

#29
#29
davethevol said:
I could have sworn the previous staff said they started with the basics and went from there as well. That being said, I'm guessing that wasn't true as evidenced how the team didn't seem to be on the same page on either side of the ball.

I think Butch Jones is going to have us competing for the SEC in the next few years.
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Are you talking about the offense that averaged over 35 points a game last year wasnt on the same page? Pretty sure they werent the problem. Now the D on the other hand...:dunno:
 
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#32
#32
the funny thing is that everyone is fascinated by a playbook but there are two things that become clear during a game.

1. people doing their job.

2. personnel who create mismatches.

schemes really aren't that big a deal. it's the players within the schemes that cause a problem.

a lot of times coaches are not the geniuses they are made out to be. as an example, to a large extent, alabama isn't outsmarting anyone. but, they have recruited superior talent and taught them to play the game properly.

in all honesty, alabama probably could have beaten most teams they play with about 10 offensive and defensive plays (with various personnel groupings).
 
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#33
#33
99gator said:
the funny thing is that everyone is fascinated by a playbook but there are two things that become clear during a game.

1. people doing their job.

2. personnel who create mismatches.

schemes really aren't that big a deal. it's the players within the schemes that cause a problem.

a lot of times coaches are not the geniuses they are made out to be. as an example, to a large extent, alabama isn't outsmarting anyone. but, they have recruited superior talent and taught them to play the game properly.

in all honesty, alabama probably could have beaten most teams they play with about 10 offensive and defensive plays (with various personnel groupings).
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See Phil filmed is a great example.... but don't say that in here because they all want 3 stars that want to be here n coach them up....

Its all about talent at every level.. high school college n NFL... that's why recruiting at a high level is the life blood of a program..
 
#34
#34
What bolsters my hope most is that I believe "you win it in the trenches" and while our lines have not been as dominant as I would like, both OL and DL have a good number of upper-classmen, seniors even, and these units may serve as a decent foundation for the rest of the team to build from.
 
#36
#36
99gator said:
the funny thing is that everyone is fascinated by a playbook but there are two things that become clear during a game.

1. people doing their job.

2. personnel who create mismatches.

schemes really aren't that big a deal. it's the players within the schemes that cause a problem.

a lot of times coaches are not the geniuses they are made out to be. as an example, to a large extent, alabama isn't outsmarting anyone. but, they have recruited superior talent and taught them to play the game properly.

in all honesty, alabama probably could have beaten most teams they play with about 10 offensive and defensive plays (with various personnel groupings).
Click to expand...

This true!
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#37
#37
92volalum said:
Its all about talent at every level.. high school college n NFL... that's why recruiting at a high level is the life blood of a program..
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True

System, development, attitude, delivery, personal hygiene are all well and good and reason for optimism.

I will get my bolster from a top 10 nationally, top 5 SEC recruiting class.
 
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#38
#38
It can take as much as 5-6 years to rebuild a depleted roster to SEC Championship levels. I expect a lot from CBJ, however, even giving CDD credit for halfassed recruiting, we are only 3 years or so into the rebuild. We will "play" better this year, but I don't expect a ton of wins this year and maybe not even next year. I do expect game over game improvement though. Not throwing water on the CBJ fire, just fanning it slowly.
 
#42
#42
sjt18 said:
Fulmer also had a "throw it all at them, see what sticks" approach.I personally believe that you start with the base plays, master them, then build on them. That seems to be the method of champions.

My old HS has had a very long and successful run of conference and state championships... and has run some version of the veer option since 1977. For the last 15-20 years, they've shared the playbook with the youth football coaches. Kids run the same system and build on it from the time they are 6 or 7 until they graduate.

I will be very interested to see how this works for Jones.
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Check the record. Whatever he done, it worked.
 
#43
#43
sjt18 said:
Fulmer also had a "throw it all at them, see what sticks" approach.

I personally believe that you start with the base plays, master them, then build on them. That seems to be the method of champions.

My old HS has had a very long and successful run of conference and state championships... and has run some version of the veer option since 1977. For the last 15-20 years, they've shared the playbook with the youth football coaches. Kids run the same system and build on it from the time they are 6 or 7 until they graduate.

I will be very interested to see how this works for Jones.
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No he didn't, at least when Cutcliffe was here.
 
#46
#46
Sjt, I agree with ur op about bringing the system up through the younger kids. I've seen this with the majority white ISDs with 1 main HS here in TX. Thing is it takes time. Something Dooley didn't have. He had to take the approach he did because he needed to figure a way to get a depleted young roster ready for the SEC and one of the toughest schedule stretches.

CBJ is able to take a slower pace bc his roster has more quality players with talent, and does not have a hot mess of a program to deal with. Hopefully he doesn't think he doesn't need to push hard some cause he can't bring a half ready team into the sec like he could have into the big east.

The likes of Saban, miles, richt, and now Spurrior have the ability to take the approach you speak of. Takes time to get there and this fan base doesn't have the ability to have that level of understanding of the situation and patience.
 
#47
#47
Oskie Volum said:
Sjt, I agree with ur op about bringing the system up through the younger kids. I've seen this with the majority white ISDs with 1 main HS here in TX. Thing is it takes time. Something Dooley didn't have. He had to take the approach he did because he needed to figure a way to get a depleted young roster ready for the SEC and one of the toughest schedule stretches.

CBJ is able to take a slower pace bc his roster has more quality players with talent, and does not have a hot mess of a program to deal with. Hopefully he doesn't think he doesn't need to push hard some cause he can't bring a half ready team into the sec like he could have into the big east.

The likes of Saban, miles, richt, and now Spurrior have the ability to take the approach you speak of. Takes time to get there and this fan base doesn't have the ability to have that level of understanding of the situation and patience.
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As usual, your condescension is palpable, your reasoning is flawed, your facts are inaccurate.....

1. Dooley had 3 years to improve. He didn't. He went backwards. Of course he only wanted 2 years after getting his arse beat by KY in 2011. Unfortunately he came back for a third year to make sure my University got an historic 41-18 ass whupping by vanderbilt. Helluva job there.

2. You say he didn't leave CBJ the kind of mess Kiffin left him and that he has a great roster to work with, full of talent! Funny but anyone who reports on the team either locally or nationally, guys who actually go to practices (unlike you) to see for themselves disagree with you. For example, I heard Bruce Feldman talk about attending the scrimmage on Saturday. His take? ..... No playmaking, SEC-ready quarterback, no SEC-ready WRs, average to below average RBs, no rush DEs, ok at DT, thin at LB outside of AJ Johnson, slow DBs trying to overcome the mental scarring your boys Dools and Sal gave em last year.

Heard Coach Doug Matthews say nearly the same thing on Sunday- very limited talent wise at this point although he was highly complimentary of CBJs recruiting efforts at this point.

3. Do I need to mention the kicking game? Yeah, didn't think so.

4. Finally, most reasonable fans on here do have an understanding of having patience to allow the coach to rebuild. At the end if 3 years however, it ought to be evident that the team is more talented, has a deeper roster, is much better coached--- all things Dooley never showed.
 
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#48
#48
Oskie Volum said:
CBJ is able to take a slower pace bc his roster has more quality players with talent, and does not have a hot mess of a program to deal with. Hopefully he doesn't think he doesn't need to push hard some cause he can't bring a half ready team into the sec like he could have into the big east.
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I don't think Jones is going to take a slower pace. He has won everywhere he has been and I think he has stated before that he doesn't like to lose. (which all coaches say or should say)
 
#49
#49
KBVol said:
As usual, your condescension is palpable, your reasoning is flawed, your facts are inaccurate.....
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Ummm, no. None of that was true of that post.

1. Dooley had 3 years to improve. He didn't. He went backwards. Of course he only wanted 2 years after getting his arse beat by KY in 2011. Unfortunately he came back for a third year to make sure my University got an historic 41-18 ass whupping by vanderbilt. Helluva job there.
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Dooley inherited a train wreck. It would have been a near miracle had he survived. But it was his choice. He was a beaten, broken coach by Vandy '12. No question.

But if you really want to consider "flawed reasoning"... you need look no further than your insenuation that he purposely came back to frustrate you with a bad lose to Vandy. Talk about egocentric delusion....

2. You say he didn't leave CBJ the kind of mess Kiffin left him and that he has a great roster to work with, full of talent! Funny but anyone who reports on the team either locally or nationally, guys who actually go to practices (unlike you) to see for themselves disagree with you. For example, I heard Bruce Feldman talk about attending the scrimmage on Saturday. His take? ..... No playmaking, SEC-ready quarterback, no SEC-ready WRs, average to below average RBs, no rush DEs, ok at DT, thin at LB outside of AJ Johnson, slow DBs trying to overcome the mental scarring your boys Dools and Sal gave em last year.
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Now we truly have seen a miracle. The recruiting services were right about everyone else's 4* recruits... but almost uniformly wrong about UT's.

Since we don't have Feldman's direct quotes... and you seem intent on bending things to suit you... I can't answer that part except to only say that it is difficult to tell very much from a team playing itself.

However, Dooley inherited NO QB's... SEC ready or otherwise.

Dooley inherited ONE RB with any kind of SEC experience.

Dooley inherited LESS talent at WR than Jones but more experience.

The biggest difference on O is/was the OL. The only OL DD inherited was a guy who was beaten out the previous year by the Sullins bros. Otherwise, he started freshmen. Those Fr are now Srs. Four plus Tiny who may go early will be in the NFL draft. That's a HUGE difference.


On D, DD only inherited one SEC worthy DE and he had a beat up body. His best DT was a DE transfer. Fact is... he HAD NO DT's on the roster. Jones has 4 or 5 guys with SEC level talent. He has some DE's with SEC level talent and especially if he moves Maggitt.

Unless once again EVERYONE lied during the recruitment of the guys playing DB at UT... they have speed. Sunseri's confusion definitely had them playing slow. That does not mean they are slow.

LB is thin on the outside. DD recruited for the 3-4... sort of. That is a significant area of concern.

Heard Coach Doug Matthews say nearly the same thing on Sunday- very limited talent wise at this point
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They have holes. That's true. But they are nothing compared to 3 years ago. You can delude yourself if you like but Dooley literally inherited a team without talent and experience and often without both.

3. Do I need to mention the kicking game? Yeah, didn't think so.
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No. You don't. They better coach those guys up and make it work. Somehow again... some guys that many high level programs seemed to want don't have talent?

4. Finally, most reasonable fans on here do have an understanding of having patience to allow the coach to rebuild. At the end if 3 years however, it ought to be evident that the team is more talented, has a deeper roster, is much better coached--- all things Dooley never showed.
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After 3 years, DD's team was more talented and deeper. He was fired explicitly because he could not take a team with good depth and actually some outstanding talent... and win. In fact, he lost games he should not have lost.

Dooley was not fired because he could not recruit or could not manage a program. He did a pretty decent job of both. He was fired because the guy lacks the skill or maybe the talent to be a head coach.

The roster is not what we would hope for but it is MILES ahead of what it was 3 years ago in every respect.
 
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#50
#50
Orangesmokey said:
I don't think Jones is going to take a slower pace. He has won everywhere he has been and I think he has stated before that he doesn't like to lose. (which all coaches say or should say)
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I agree with this.

Jones does not have a "slower pace" gear. That's good.

He does however have a better starting point than 3 years ago. If he is "the guy" then he will beat someone this year that UT isn't supposed to beat. The "buzz" will be that he's a great coach that made the team MUCH better.
 
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