The Thread Where We Debate About Healthcare in America

#201
#201
hog88 said:
I have no problem with the bold, your money do with it as you please.

You touched on government involvement, I don't want the government involved at all. I don't want them barring treatment for those that can afford it and I don't want them mandating insurance companies pay for it.
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i am the same. keep the government out of it. they will never know what is better for my family more than I do.
 
#202
#202
rjd970 said:
From the pro-life crowd I suspect it doesn't matter. A 5-minute old fertilized egg and the moment just before birth are the same.

Just trying to gauge implications of the genetic disorder statement that was made.
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If someone murders a pregnant woman, should that person be charged with double homicide?
 
#203
#203
hog88 said:
No we're talking about medical expenses.
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that right there should scare anyone. eugenics is going to be the most cost effective way of dealing with anything. even if healthy, no incurable stuff, they will still get sick, likely to get hurt. cheaper just to kill the kid, doesn't matter what the family wants.
 
#205
#205
LouderVol said:
that right there should scare anyone. eugenics is going to be the most cost effective way of dealing with anything. even if healthy, no incurable stuff, they will still get sick, likely to get hurt. cheaper just to kill the kid, doesn't matter what the family wants.
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I think the discussion needs to be had on when to stop throwing god money after bad to keep people alive and also the effect it has on our species.
 
#206
#206
LouderVol said:
that right there should scare anyone. eugenics is going to be the most cost effective way of dealing with anything. even if healthy, no incurable stuff, they will still get sick, likely to get hurt. cheaper just to kill the kid, doesn't matter what the family wants.
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Before we start deciding which kids we shoot behind the doctors office let’s do something about the fatties. They are an incredible drain on our system, far more than congenital disorders. Cure the fatties and you free up a lot of capacity and resources to treat people with real problems.
 
#207
#207
DancingOutlaw said:
Before we start deciding which kids we shoot behind the doctors office let’s do something about the fatties. They are an incredible drain on our system, far more than congenital disorders. Cure the fatties and you free up a lot of capacity and resources to treat people with real problems.
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Until the government controls our diets, fat people will continue to be fat.
 
#208
#208
hog88 said:
I think the discussion needs to be had on when to stop throwing god money after bad to keep people alive and also the effect it has on our species.
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I don't think this is a conversation we, the people, should ever have to have. which again is part of the reason I am completely against the government being involved is so this never comes up.

I am generally with what you are saying as far as hurting the future of humanity, but I am more a free will person. I don't see the trade off of longer lasting humans without the same choices we enjoy today.
 
#209
#209
Vol_Doc said:
Until the government controls our diets, fat people will continue to be fat.
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so what the government should do then is step in a regulate the food industry. that way when it fails they can step in and centralize it. it will save us all money, and think of the hungry kids. there won't be any hungry kids when the government takes over.

*I don't think you are a single payer person, but I wanted to say this anyway to point out how dumb the argument is.
 
#210
#210
LouderVol said:
I don't think this is a conversation we, the people, should ever have to have. which again is part of the reason I am completely against the government being involved is so this never comes up.

I am generally with what you are saying as far as hurting the future of humanity, but I am more a free will person. I don't see the trade off of longer lasting humans without the same choices we enjoy today.
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I'm in no way advocating the govt preventing a person or an insurance company from paying for treatment.
 
#211
#211
Vol_Doc said:
Until the government controls our diets, fat people will continue to be fat.
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Take **** food off the EBT lists for a start.

Private insurance is already incentivizing weight loss and physical activity with wellness programs. Something has to be done or they are going to eat us to death.
 
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#212
#212
hog88 said:
I'm in no way advocating the govt preventing a person or an insurance company from paying for treatment.
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i know you aren't. and I would love to see those arguing for the government to take over offer a stance on these items.
 
#213
#213
DancingOutlaw said:
Take **** food off the EBT lists for a start.

Private insurance is already incentivizing weight loss and physical activity with wellness programs. Something has to be done or they are going to eat us to death.
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#214
#214
LouderVol said:
so what the government should do then is step in a regulate the food industry. that way when it fails they can step in and centralize it. it will save us all money, and think of the hungry kids. there won't be any hungry kids when the government takes over.

*I don't think you are a single payer person, but I wanted to say this anyway to point out how dumb the argument is.
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Yeah, I wasn't advocating government intervention. I was just pointing out the inevitability of obesity.
 
#217
#217
DancingOutlaw said:
Take **** food off the EBT lists for a start.

Private insurance is already incentivizing weight loss and physical activity with wellness programs. Something has to be done or they are going to eat us to death.
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access to full calorie Pepsi and pizza is a natural right
 
#219
#219
LouderVol said:
which goes back to the question of should we pay for it? (imo we shouldn't pay for anything)
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Pay for what exactly? Obesity-related illnesses? That would definitely save money.

In all seriousness, I think insurance companies are finally catching on. They're offering rewards for healthy behavior and prevention. They're also passing more of the cost onto the patient. The costs of poor health are a lot more eye opening, when you see them first hand, rather than on an EOB that most drop in the trash.
 
#220
#220
Vol_Doc said:
Population is growing lazier and the cheapest, quickest, easiest food is the worst for you.
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cheapest, quickest, and easiest may be the belief, but it isn't true.

loaf of bread costs 89 cents, sandwhich meat can cost about 2/3 bucks. it aint fun, tasty or a balanced diet but its better than fast food.

quickest is easily tackled by making enough to last to and serving up leftovers. again sandwhichs don't take long either, or even heating up a can of soup.

ease is so subjective I wont try that one.
 
#221
#221
Vol_Doc said:
Pay for what exactly? Obesity-related illnesses? That would definitely save money.

In all seriousness, I think insurance companies are finally catching on. They're offering rewards for healthy behavior and prevention. They're also passing more of the cost onto the patient. The costs of poor health are a lot more eye opening, when you see them first hand, rather than on an EOB that most drop in the trash.
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yeah but before it was a choice on if I was buying insurance, and what plans I could get. now we don't have the choice so the insurance doing saving programs doesn't feel so nice.
 
#222
#222
LouderVol said:
cheapest, quickest, and easiest may be the belief, but it isn't true.

loaf of bread costs 89 cents, sandwhich meat can cost about 2/3 bucks. it aint fun, tasty or a balanced diet but its better than fast food.

quickest is easily tackled by making enough to last to and serving up leftovers. again sandwhichs don't take long either, or even heating up a can of soup.

ease is so subjective I wont try that one.
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You aren't wrong, but perception is reality. Every morning, I eat two English muffins with margarine and an instant breakfast drink. I make a flat bread sandwich to take for lunch. I eat a protein bar about 4 PM. Dinner is the only meal that varies, but it's usually home cooked and I rarely go back for seconds. I drink mainly water, but do have an iced tea with dinner and may have a couple fingers of bourbon in the evening. Rare dessert, usually on special occasions. Don't eat out much. I'm within 10 pounds of my college weight and just turned 47. Sure, it's not an exciting diet, but why should eating be exciting?
 
#223
#223
LouderVol said:
yeah but before it was a choice on if I was buying insurance, and what plans I could get. now we don't have the choice so the insurance doing saving programs doesn't feel so nice.
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Agree about choice. I've actually gone HSA. Pays for preventative and other costs up to the cap are pre-tax. My account also generates some, albeit minimal, interest. My family is generally healthy, so it's a cost savings for us. If you have chronic medical conditions, you're pretty screwed nowadays.
 
#224
#224
Vol_Doc said:
You aren't wrong, but perception is reality. Every morning, I eat two English muffins with margarine and an instant breakfast drink. I make a flat bread sandwich to take for lunch. I eat a protein bar about 4 PM. Dinner is the only meal that varies, but it's usually home cooked and I rarely go back for seconds. I drink mainly water, but do have an iced tea with dinner and may have a couple fingers of bourbon in the evening. Rare dessert, usually on special occasions. Don't eat out much. I'm within 10 pounds of my college weight and just turned 47. Sure, it's not an exciting diet, but why should eating be exciting?
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I think we should treat a lot of things in this country like we did with smoking. that's probably the only successful anti-something campaign our government has run. and it didn't involve making something illegal, or forcing people to pay into something.
 
#225
#225
ClearwaterVol said:
They either wanted to hang it up or they didn't have very good practices. I know a crap ton of doctors in my line of work and they all seem to be doing very well.
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What doctor in private practice doesn't have a line out the door of new patient candidates? Your statement is ridiculous.


No, you asshats have sued them into poverty.
 
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