The UF spread as trainiing ground for the NFL

#1
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19SEP2009

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#1
Much controversy about whether this discussion belongs in individual player threads.

Not a subject I personally an initiating, but find myself responding to when an anti-thread post is entered related to a specific player.

Anyway, if anyone wants to have an intelligent discussion about the topic, it seems liike a worthy topic.

I'll be gone for the balance of the day but will be back later.

The only ground rules I would ask is that we try to keep the interaction 1:1 as much as possible. It's difficult to keep a logical dialogue when multiple people are coming at the issue simultaneously from different directions.

Also, if we can take turns trying to prove a point that would be helpful. Indicate the point you are trying to make and let's have a Q&A related to that point until we reach a conclusion one way or the other or to the point where we are deadlocked and we can agree to disagree.

I'm going to expect some rude posts. It's part of the territory. But I'll generally pass on responding to those unless I have a zippy one liner that is just too irresistible
to pass on. I won't be the initiator of any personal antagonism.

See you later.
 
#3
#3
I posted my beliefs in the chaz green thread. UF doesn't prepare offensive players for the NFL.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#4
#4
Seriously, there is no argument. No spread offense QBs have ever done ANYTHING in the NFL. Until one does, there is nothing to argue...
 
#5
#5
OL: Better off in spread IMO
TE: Arguable either way. Better pass catchers vs better blockers
WR: Arguable either way too but probably leaning to Pro Style.
RB/FB/QB: All pretty heavily going towards Pro Style
 
#6
#6
Lord Vader said:
Seriously, there is no argument. No spread offense QBs have ever done ANYTHING in the NFL. Until one does, there is nothing to argue...
Click to expand...

i hate to agree with a gator, but drew brees was a spread quarterback in college. his offensive coordinator, in case you haven't heard, was one of the biggest proponents of the spread offense, and actually taught urban meyer a thing or two about it, i believe his name was jim chaney.
 
#7
#7
And the Pats are pretty much a spread team right now. Just from memory it seems like they lined up in 3 wide shotgun about half the time.
 
#8
#8
bburger991 said:
OL: Better off in spread IMO
TE: Arguable either way. Better pass catchers vs better blockers
WR: Arguable either way too but probably leaning to Pro Style.
RB/FB/QB: All pretty heavily going towards Pro Style
Click to expand...

There is no "arguable" for WRs...

the spread kills WRs development, they do not learn the fundamentals of a route tree and they don't learn proper route running as a whole. They execute simple bubble screens, slants, and go routes their whole careers and are nowhere near ready for the NFL.
 
#9
#9
bburger991 said:
And the Pats are pretty much a spread team right now. Just from memory it seems like they lined up in 3 wide shotgun about half the time.
Click to expand...

You can do that when you have one of the best combinations of QB/WR in modern football.

Peyton does the same with the Colts, because he is capable of executing that against the highest level of competition.

but where did Brady/Manning come from in college and how did they begin their careers in the NFL? in pure pro-style type offenses at UT/UM and the same in the pros.
 
#10
#10
voltilifall said:
i hate to agree with a gator, but drew brees was a spread quarterback in college. his offensive coordinator, in case you haven't heard, was one of the biggest proponents of the spread offense, and actually taught urban meyer a thing or two about it, i believe his name was jim chaney.
Click to expand...

Oh I know about Brees and Orton in the spread. But please see:
B.J. Symons
Cliff Kingsbury
Graham Harrell
Cody Hodges
Chase Daniel
Pat White
Alex Smith
Shaun King
Woodrow Dantzler
Dennis Dixon
Michael Bishop
Drew Stanton
Timmy Chang
Colt Brennan

Look at some of those names. Michael Bishop was 2nd in the Heisman voting in '98. What happened to him? Alex Smith was the #1 pick. He's pathetic and is the 3rd string for the 49ers behind Shaun Hill and O'Connell. Kingsbury, Harrell, Chang, and Brennan are four of the most prolific college pasers of all-time. But I don't think a single one of them even got drafted. The spread kills QBs...
 
Last edited:
#11
#11
The Spread Kills. Period.

IMO. The spread will have its day in the sun and will fade away evenually.
 
#12
#12
The OP asked about the UF spread. I assume he means Urban Meyer's system. His most prolific spread QB, Alex Smith, looked so good in college that he was made the #1 overall draft pick. Looking back, I think it can be easily stated that this is in the top 3 or 4 worst #1 draft picks of all time, as he is clearly not a pro-ready QB.

That should end the debate about UF's spread making people NFL-ready.

Of course, we can re-visit this topic in a few years when we talk about what an awesome college QB Tebow was and how he never amounted to anything in the pros. Because jump passes don't work against Ray Lewis & Brian Urlacher.
 
#14
#14
TE's aren't really TEs in the spread. The NFL is moving towards more athletic pass catchers at the TE spot.

Spread O's kill WRs.

Spread O's kill QBs with the exception being Brees and Orton. 2 QBs in 10 years.

Spread O's usually don't lend themselves to RBs having great pro careers.
 
#15
#15
Lord Vader said:
Oh I know about Brees and Orton in the spread. But please see:
B.J. Symons
Cliff Kingsbury
Graham Harrell
Cody Hodges
Chase Daniel
Pat White
Alex Smith
Shaun King
Woodrow Dantzler
Dennis Dixon
Michael Bishop
Drew Stanton
Timmy Chang
Colt Brennan

Look at some of those names. Michael Bishop was 2nd in the Heisman voting in '98. What happened to him? Alex Smith was the #1 pick. He's pathetic and is the 3rd string for the 49ers behind Shaun Hill and O'Connell. Kingsbury, Harrell, Chang, and Brennan are four of the most prolific college pasers of all-time. But I don't think a single one of them even got drafted. The spread kills QBs...
Click to expand...

The verdict is out on Dixon and White.

Woodrow Danzler had success as a kick returner.

That shows how much the spread carries over to the NFL.
 
#16
#16
Lord Vader said:
Oh I know about Brees and Orton in the spread. But please see:
B.J. Symons
Cliff Kingsbury
Graham Harrell
Cody Hodges
Chase Daniel
Pat White
Alex Smith
Shaun King
Woodrow Dantzler
Dennis Dixon
Michael Bishop
Drew Stanton
Timmy Chang
Colt Brennan

Look at some of those names. Michael Bishop was 2nd in the Heisman voting in '98. What happened to him? Alex Smith was the #1 pick. He's pathetic and is the 3rd string for the 49ers behind Shaun Hill and O'Connell. Kingsbury, Harrell, Chang, and Brennan are four of the most prolific college pasers of all-time. But I don't think a single one of them even got drafted. The spread kills QBs...
Click to expand...

i agree that spread qb's tend to have less success in the nfl...however, i was responding to your claim that "no spread qb has ever done ANYTHING in the nfl" because that is just not true.
 
#17
#17
19SEP2009 said:
Much controversy about whether this discussion belongs in individual player threads.

Not a subject I personally an initiating, but find myself responding to when an anti-thread post is entered related to a specific player.

Anyway, if anyone wants to have an intelligent discussion about the topic, it seems liike a worthy topic.

I'll be gone for the balance of the day but will be back later.

The only ground rules I would ask is that we try to keep the interaction 1:1 as much as possible. It's difficult to keep a logical dialogue when multiple people are coming at the issue simultaneously from different directions.

Also, if we can take turns trying to prove a point that would be helpful. Indicate the point you are trying to make and let's have a Q&A related to that point until we reach a conclusion one way or the other or to the point where we are deadlocked and we can agree to disagree.

I'm going to expect some rude posts. It's part of the territory. But I'll generally pass on responding to those unless I have a zippy one liner that is just too irresistible
to pass on. I won't be the initiator of any personal antagonism.

See you later.
Click to expand...
My question is why didn't Tebow come out as a junior? He had one of the most successful college careers in recent history. It's because the NFL would eat him alive. He's not fast enough to run (Michael Vick). He can't do the jump passes, which caught many opponents off gaurd, in the pros. Do you remember how many times he threw the ball while falling down? The pros won't let that happen. He'll get eaten alive. He is just a good college player period. It's like a man against boys. When he's facing other men it'll be a different story.
 
#18
#18
Remember the wishbone and option? It worked in college, but you don't see it in the pros. In the pros you have the greatest atheletes on the planet. That gimmicky stuff hasn't and won't work with the best.
 
#19
#19
voltilifall said:
i agree that spread qb's tend to have less success in the nfl...however, i was responding to your claim that "no spread qb has ever done ANYTHING in the nfl" because that is just not true.
Click to expand...
If the spread was so great, then name me five player's that made it in the pros. Kyle Orton is not stasrting anymore, is he? Didn't Chicago just sign Jay Cutler? I think Drew Brees was an aberration.
 
#20
#20
Vol_atile said:
If the spread was so great, then name me five player's that made it in the pros. Kyle Orton is not stasrting anymore, is he? Didn't Chicago just sign Jay Cutler? I think Drew Brees was an aberration.
Click to expand...

He was actually traded to Denver for Jay Cutler, but I haven't been impressed with Orton in the NFL anyway.
 
#21
#21
Vol_atile said:
If the spread was so great, then name me five player's that made it in the pros. Kyle Orton is not stasrting anymore, is he? Didn't Chicago just sign Jay Cutler? I think Drew Brees was an aberration.
Click to expand...

orton is the broncos starter...and to disprove your original argument i don't have to name five, i just have to name one. i agree that the spread qb's have less nfl success, but i disagree that the college system that a player is in will ultimately determine their nfl success. i think that great players will be successful regardless of system.
 
#22
#22
voltilifall said:
orton is the broncos starter...and to disprove your original argument i don't have to name five, i just have to name one. i agree that the spread qb's have less nfl success, but i disagree that the college system that a player is in will ultimately determine their nfl success. i think that great players will be successful regardless of system.
Click to expand...

How can you prove that? For all we know there are tons of players than had their careers screwed up by retarded coaching staffs or systems. I'm sure there are several Vols over the past 6 years that could have made it to the NFL but the staff let them down with crappy development or not using them in the right way... kinda like Brandon Warren going from a freshman AA to nothing under Fulmer (not a perfect analogy but point still stands).
 
#24
#24
Bassmanbruno said:
How can you prove that? For all we know there are tons of players than had their careers screwed up by retarded coaching staffs or systems. I'm sure there are several Vols over the past 6 years that could have made it to the NFL but the staff let them down with crappy development.
Click to expand...

that's completely beside the point, all i was saying is that the college players who are really great will be successful in the nfl regardless of collegiate system. the real problem with the spread quarterbacks that have been named in this thread is that they tend to be undersized with weak (but accurate arms) if peyton ran a spread in college he would still be peyton today.
 
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