The UF spread as trainiing ground for the NFL

#51
#51
voltilifall said:
i agree with you on tebow and most of your other statements...but my argument is that the truly great players will shine regardless of system. if alex smith was a great quarterback then he would be great in the nfl, he's not so therefore i think that he is not a great player. tebow is a great player in meyer's system but it is yet to be determined whether he can be a great player in any system and that is what he should be judged on in the end. the term "system quarterback" is often used to describe players like colt brennan and andre ware who put up monster numbers in college but don't translate to the next level, however i am of the opinion that a truly great quarterback will be great no matter what his system is. steve young didn't exactly run a pro-style offense at byu. the west coast offense is very similar to the spread in many way's and no-one has ever accused it of stunting a qb's growth. the flaw's of the spread in producing pro qb's i believe lies less in the system and more in the personnel, the 6-5 230lbs qb's with laser rocket arms aren't going to spread teams...so spread teams are getting smaller qb's. the nfl likes bigger quarterbacks, so if spread teams had bigger qb's then the nfl would draft them. no system would keep the nfl from drafting a player who was incredible at the combine and that is where spread quarterbacks come up short (figuratively and literally)
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I wonder why? And don't tell me because they're all slow - because I can list of quite a few examples that are far from slow that have that size.

And don't kid yourself with Tebow - he won't be a successful QB in the NFL - we don't have to wait to judge him - and Tebow also has good size and decent arm strength - but pass accuracy not so great and neither is his release.
 
#52
#52
Bassmanbruno said:
Hmmm - I wonder why? And don't tell me because they're all slow - because I can list of quite a few examples that are far from slow that have that size.

And don't kid yourself with Tebow - he won't be a successful QB in the NFL.
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i don't think he will either...but i can't say that no spread quarterbacks can be successful in the nfl because that is just too sweeping of a generalization and has already been disproven by drew brees...the point that i'm trying to articulate (unsuccessfully it seems) is that the reason prototype nfl quarterbacks don't go to spread teams has less to do with the system magically making them worse quarterbacks and more to do with the stigma that has been attached to the smaller spread quarterbacks who have failed at the next level. i think that blaming a particular system for alex smith being a terrible player is being too kind to alex smith...he was a terrible player regardless, the spread hid his terribleness for long enough to make him a millionaire. players have to learn new systems all of the time and any collegiate spread quarterback who can't adapt to the nfl game doesn't deserve to be in the nfl.
 
#53
#53
voltilifall said:
i agree with you on tebow and most of your other statements...but my argument is that the truly great players will shine regardless of system. if alex smith was a great quarterback then he would be great in the nfl, he's not so therefore i think that he is not a great player. tebow is a great player in meyer's system but it is yet to be determined whether he can be a great player in any system and that is what he should be judged on in the end. the term "system quarterback" is often used to describe players like colt brennan and andre ware who put up monster numbers in college but don't translate to the next level, however i am of the opinion that a truly great quarterback will be great no matter what his system is. steve young didn't exactly run a pro-style offense at byu. the west coast offense is very similar to the spread in many way's and no-one has ever accused it of stunting a qb's growth. the flaw's of the spread in producing pro qb's i believe lies less in the system and more in the personnel, the 6-5 230lbs qb's with laser rocket arms aren't going to spread teams...so spread teams are getting smaller qb's. the nfl likes bigger quarterbacks, so if spread teams had bigger qb's then the nfl would draft them. no system would keep the nfl from drafting a player who was incredible at the combine and that is where spread quarterbacks come up short (figuratively and literally)
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Your arguement is ridiculous. You can avoid all of your dribble and just say "QBs who do really well in the NFL were always great QBs."

Because that's all your saying. And its ridiculous.

You say in one line that there's no such thing as a system QB, but a few lines later you say Tebow "is great in Meyer's system but might not be great in the NFL." You can't sit on both sides of the fence like that. That is referred to as contradicting yourself.

Tebow will always be remembered as a great college QB, even if he sucks worse than Alex Smith at the next level (which is likely). And if he is crappy in the NFL it won't change the fact that he was great in college.
 
#54
#54
I can't see Tebow even playing quarterback in the pros. He's simply too slow. He has a slow baseball release. You can't back peddle and wind up to throw in the pros. I also think that when you play the spread option, you are somewhat fundamentally flawed. It's hard to break old habits and the NFL won't wait till you do.
 
#55
#55
If anyone can fix his motion its probably Loeffler. Lets at least wait until what he does with him before we all crucify him.
 
#58
#58
bburger991 said:
If anyone can fix his motion its probably Loeffler. Lets at least wait until what he does with him before we all crucify him.
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It's not just bad mechanics and footwork. It's also how quickly a QB can get into their drops, go through their progressions STANDING IN THE POCKET...and at the same time sense the pressure around them and move around in the pocket to buy time to make the completion. NFL teams want to see a QB that can make all the throws as well as do this on a consistent basis. It's also something that requires development over time. If your QB is always operating from the shotgun or is running some variant of the option, he is not developing these necessary skills.
I think Tebow's draft status will be the poster child for all spread offenses and will eventually spark a big media storm about the merits of running it, when coaches know it stunts a QB's potential at the next level. To some degree it already has.
 
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#59
#59
Do you guys really think this would be such a hot topic if Uraban Cryer hadn't landed Tim Tebow? Lets think back to just how powerful this offense was without him. Remember Chris Leak? The way I remember things unfolding is that several teams had shut down the offense including us. Then on a crucial down 3rd and short or 4th and 3, here comes Tebow on to the field. The rest is history. My point is, this offense will be meak in mild next year with out Tebow in it. Hide and watch. It will not work with a Leak like Qb, Tebow is just a freak as bad as I have to say it.
 
#60
#60
19SEP2009 said:
I think thats what the argument is all about here. From a recruiting standpoint, is it conclusive that the spread is an inferior place to prepare a skill player to be drafted and succeed in the NFL.

Until recently, no powerhouse college football program ran the spread. It was all pro-style I formation, wishbone, or fun and gun.

UF is the first powerhouse program to run the spread and the first to put a slew of Rival's 100 athletes into that kind of offense. It is those top tier athletes that comprise the bulk of future NFL draftees.

So even though the spread has been around awhile, trying to look at the previous experience of lower tier athletes who did or did not make it to the NFL is comparing apples to oranges.

Meyer's first UF recruiting class just graduated and had three skill players drafted (rounds 1,4,5). Only UNC had as many. How they will do in the NFL is a guess. The first QB (Tebow) and the second QB (Brantley) are very likely to be first day picks. TE Aaron Hernandez will also likely be a first day pick when he comes out.

It's too early to conclude that these guys will be successful and it is difficult to reach a conclusion based upon a small number of athletes.

The experiment just began 4 years ago and the first results are just coming in. Time will tell.
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You don`t seem to understand, We don`t care what is or is not going on at florida! We don`t care if all or none of your players go to the NFL!!! This is a Vols site so go tell someone who cares!!!
 
#61
#61
Honestly, I think some spread QBs could start being more successful in the NFL. A lot of the spread QBs who failed were from mid major conferences. Obviously, the TT guys weren't, but really, look at the spread QBs who failed - midmajors+Texas Tech. Texas Tech runs a weird spread, where the line splits are way different and they throw 5 yard passes. Some spreads DO have route trees.

And Percy Harvin will be a pretty good NFLer.
 
#62
#62
tennezz said:
You don`t seem to understand, We don`t care what is or is not going on at florida! We don`t care if all or none of your players go to the NFL!!! This is a Vols site so go tell someone who cares!!!
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There is an Around the NCAA forum where this should be, and a lot of us would like this conversation. I care what's going on in college football, because for me to continue my "i know more than you" spiel, I need to actually know more than you.
 
#63
#63
I can not believe people are actually using Kyle Orton as a positive example of success for a spread QB in the NFL. At best he is a journeyman QB. He will flop in Denver. He lost his starting job to Rex Grossman! His career QB rating is 71.1. I don't want to hear about his winning record either, because he won most of those games when Chicago's defense was unbeatable. The debate back then was which quarterback could start for the Bears and not lose the game. That is not what I call a successful NFL QB. Denver only traded for him to get rid of Cutler. I imagine you will hear a lot about Denver's running game again this year. My last point is Orton is the pro version of our Nick Stephens.
 
#64
#64
VolinArizona said:
Honestly, I think some spread QBs could start being more successful in the NFL. A lot of the spread QBs who failed were from mid major conferences. Obviously, the TT guys weren't, but really, look at the spread QBs who failed - midmajors+Texas Tech. Texas Tech runs a weird spread, where the line splits are way different and they throw 5 yard passes. Some spreads DO have route trees.

And Percy Harvin will be a pretty good NFLer.
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I think Percy could have been drafted top 10 if he had gone to a school with a more traditional offense that still relied on him very heavily. He would have refined his skills and routes at WR a lot more. He was drafted that high due to sheer athleticism when you look at the other WRs taken in the 1st round.
 
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