The un-churching of America....

#54
#54
Sjernigan88 said:
And by the way....find anywhere in the bible Jesus says that he COMMANDS we go to church.... I have found lots of place about fellowship,teachings among elders, praying for each other, ect....
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read titus, read the books that Paul wrote. most of the books paul wrote are about the church. paul wrote in great detail about churches that were being Christ like and churches that were not.
 
#55
#55
Sjernigan88 said:
Ok, what I am talking of is not a feel good live in sin fellowship. It is a group of christians that firmly believe the bible as the word of God and choose not to have it forced on them by a pastor who is more concerned with keeping butts in the seat to pay the light bill and staff but rather seek the truth of the word and teachings of Jesus. Just because some isn't in a church building does not mean they live in sin.
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sounds like you're making excuses.
 
#57
#57
From a purely sociological standpoint religion can be a very powerful thing, for good and ill. At it's best most "real" religions (please, let's not get too carried away with this, I think you know what I mean) have a very strong influence in what is perceived as "right" and "wrong" and these distinctions carry consequences that you can't just escape, even in death. Christianity and some of the Eastern belief systems are especially peaceful and charitable in nature. Relying on the "good of mankind" as an inherent trait isn't exactly something that holds up terribly well under scrutiny.

But that last part is really the tricky part, isn't it? Religion is powerful so it can be used to obtain and bestow power. Add in the human element and well, there's been some pretty horrific events have taken place in the name of some higher power.

On the other hand ponder a moment a world where the only constraints on people doing whatever/whenever are government and whatever passes for a "sense of right" developed from, I can only guess, an appreciation for the "greater good" or something. Death is the end and there's no point in worrying about consequences for your actions other than not being caught and if you're in a strong enough position even that needn't be an issue.

Then there is the oft mentioned idea that once government reaches a certain point of breadth and power it takes on a good many of the characteristics associated with religion.

One never really runs out of angles to look at this topic.
 
#58
#58
joevol320 said:
read titus, read the books that Paul wrote. most of the books paul wrote are about the church. paul wrote in great detail about churches that were being Christ like and churches that were not.
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While I respect your opinion I will just point out that I am not talking about leaving the Christian faith, only changing the way I address it. Your are 100% correct on the fact that most of Pauls writings were on "the church", that being elders, how to act, the order of worship and so on. But at this time in history the church building were really rarely used for Christianity, they met at a elders home, ate, fellowshiped, worshiped God, encouraged each other, and studied the word. Also the teaching in Titus were about not being a "Heavy Drinker", a gossip, womanizer and pretty much about being a good citizen and the book encourages everyone to be a teacher of "the Good news". As I really take it personal that one would say "sounds like excuses to me", really? That sound somewhat judgemental, see in my eyes faith and my relationship with Christ and the father are between him and I. That is the cool thing about God, he may speak to you and tell you to be a youth pastor and that is awesome and I hope your calling affects many many lives, he may tell someone else to worship with their family and thats ok, or he may speak different word to different folks and I feel like I am entering a new season of home study/worship with family and friends, I still like the church, it probably saved my life.
 
#59
#59
Sjernigan88 said:
While I respect your opinion I will just point out that I am not talking about leaving the Christian faith, only changing the way I address it. Your are 100% correct on the fact that most of Pauls writings were on "the church", that being elders, how to act, the order of worship and so on. But at this time in history the church building were really rarely used for Christianity, they met at a elders home, ate, fellowshiped, worshiped God, encouraged each other, and studied the word. Also the teaching in Titus were about not being a "Heavy Drinker", a gossip, womanizer and pretty much about being a good citizen and the book encourages everyone to be a teacher of "the Good news". As I really take it personal that one would say "sounds like excuses to me", really? That sound somewhat judgemental, see in my eyes faith and my relationship with Christ and the father are between him and I. That is the cool thing about God, he may speak to you and tell you to be a youth pastor and that is awesome and I hope your calling affects many many lives, he may tell someone else to worship with their family and thats ok, or he may speak different word to different folks and I feel like I am entering a new season of home study/worship with family and friends, I still like the church, it probably saved my life.
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it hard to see God calling someone not to go to church. he's written to many versus and books about going to church.
 
#60
#60
joevol320 said:
it hard to see God calling someone not to go to church. he's written to many versus and books about going to church.
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Well...He kept Oral Roberts trapped in a tower until he raised a million dollars...so I would say that anything is possible.
 
#61
#61
joevol320 said:
it hard to see God calling someone not to go to church. he's written to many versus and books about going to church.
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And Jesus himself was very critical of what the churches in his time had become. I would argue the same would be true today if he were around.
 
#62
#62
Agreed KB, most history tells us that church was usually speaking of a group of people and not a building with organization.
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#63
#63
KB5252 said:
And Jesus himself was very critical of what the churches in his time had become. I would argue the same would be true today if he were around.
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exactly. One doesn't have to look around too hard to see who the modern day pharisees and sagisees are.
 
#64
#64
Considering most churches today don't even heed the Bible and are more about social clubs, you start with problems right there. Add to the fact many 'churches' have a 'Field of Dreams' philosophy on evangelism - if you build it they will come - many just put everything into a building and sit back waiting for people to kick down doors. Of course the flipside is going to the extremes with dog and pony shows.

The issue with Christianity in America (or even the world) is a lack of understanding we live in the 'Post-Modern' era. Most leadership still lives in the 'Modern' era and cannot handle working in this atmosphere. I'm on the verge of leaving my church for this bunker mentality for one that dares to actually live Scripture rather than just read and memorize it.
 
#65
#65
I like the Field of Dreams analogy... that and the seeker-friendly approach are big problems
 
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