The wheel of time

#26
#26
wwilso29 said:
I understood the changes made to streamline the story for 8-episode season format before the finale but now I’m lost.
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I'm guessing they tried to "make you want" a season 2 yet forgetting to write a good story
 
#27
#27
Damn, almost made it through one whole page of posts without someone spoiling something and then it happened.

I haven't read the books but it is interesting. In the first two episodes I was very underwhelmed by Moiraine's powers.
 
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#28
#28
Coug said:
Damn, almost made it through one whole page of posts without someone spoiling something and then it happened.

I haven't read the books but it is interesting. In the first two episodes I was very underwhelmed by Moiraine's powers.
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Read the books. You will LOVE them but then you will absolutely despise the show. One of the worst and most woke agenda driven book adaptations of all time. Balefire the whole damn thing and especially Rafe Judkins.
 
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#30
#30
gainesvol82 said:
Halfway through the first episode and despise it. Way too many changes to story for no reason. Won't watch next episodes...I couldn't stop complaining and being pissed.
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First episode wasnt too bad. Definitely some made for TV stuff that wasnt in the books. But it really spirals downhill the more episodes you watch.

The show is barely following the book plot line at all by the end. And it makes no sense. Tons of awesome stuff left out or changed for no reason.

Watched the first season, wont watch the rest.
 
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#33
#33
LouderVol said:
To put it in perspective this is like when they made the second and third Hobbit movies. If you know anything about the books you will hate the changes they made.
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I didn't care about the Hobbit changes, I cared about it being unwatchable. Almost 9 hours of run time when it shouldn't have been more than 4 or 5.

I'm not like most fans of media where I hold the original text sacred or get mad about bad reboots somehow retroactively ruining the original, etc. Godfather is my favorite book/movie and there are tons of major differences that Coppola took liberties with. I actually like the differences because each story is still amazing and at their core, they are the same, and it's more interesting to not know everything when you read the book if you've seen the movie, or vice versa. I try to appreciate/hate each installment for what it is.
 
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#34
#34
I read the first few books of WoT ages ago but dropped the series at some point. Too many books, lol. But that is to give context to my opinion on this show: it's been so long since I read those first few books, I don't remember most of it, so I'm not picking at every detail that they got wrong/changed for the show. I maybe noticed one or two major things from what I could remember that differed from the books.

That being said, I thought the show was bad. Like, as bad or worse than the Witcher S2. The characters did not work for me (for the most part) and the plot went from either meandering or seemingly moving way too fast (without ever finding a happy medium).

Perhaps I am spoiled by the abundance of quality television these days, but this one was a big oof for me.
 
#35
#35
MercyPercy said:
I read the first few books of WoT ages ago but dropped the series at some point. Too many books, lol. But that is to give context to my opinion on this show: it's been so long since I read those first few books, I don't remember most of it, so I'm not picking at every detail that they got wrong/changed for the show. I maybe noticed one or two major things from what I could remember that differed from the books.

That being said, I thought the show was bad. Like, as bad or worse than the Witcher S2. The characters did not work for me (for the most part) and the plot went from either meandering or seemingly moving way too fast (without ever finding a happy medium).

Perhaps I am spoiled by the abundance of quality television these days, but this one was a big oof for me.
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I'm only 4 episodes into WoT but that's one episode further than I got in Witcher. I didn't get that show at all. It felt like a big-budget version of Sorbo's Hercules.
 
#36
#36
n_huffhines said:
I'm only 4 episodes into WoT but that's one episode further than I got in Witcher. I didn't get that show at all. It felt like a big-budget version of Sorbo's Hercules.
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Sadly that is a good description. With the wealth of source material in the Witcher lore, from the books to the video games, they should make a television adaptation with such a huge budget that is pretty decent at the very least. Unfortunately the whole shows fails except for HC as Geralt. I feel bad he has to work with such poor writing.
 
#37
#37
n_huffhines said:
I didn't care about the Hobbit changes, I cared about it being unwatchable. Almost 9 hours of run time when it shouldn't have been more than 4 or 5.

I'm not like most fans of media where I hold the original text sacred or get mad about bad reboots somehow retroactively ruining the original, etc. Godfather is my favorite book/movie and there are tons of major differences that Coppola took liberties with. I actually like the differences because each story is still amazing and at their core, they are the same, and it's more interesting to not know everything when you read the book if you've seen the movie, or vice versa. I try to appreciate/hate each installment for what it is.
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If you want to remake/unmake a book/movie/comic whatever, do it. Dont toe the line, change with a purpose.

What makes the WoT special, imo, is there are SO many details that make it great in the end as they get woven together. I contend the story just gets better and better the more books you get because you see all the threads come together, interact, and go on to influence the story. The show is changing these or cutting those details. None of them would take any more time than what they already. Things they could drop in without calling attention to. Or things wrong.

Loial should be 10 feet tall. The way gates dont require the one power, how do the trollocs and fades use it if no one power? They were created by the ogier and aes sedai so the ogier could travel between steddings and major cities, the Ogier dont use the one power.

What did they gain with those changes? I could probably pull 10-20 details like that just from season one without sitting down with the book, or being super nit picky. These are details that matter in the story that all feed together.
 
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#38
#38
MercyPercy said:
I read the first few books of WoT ages ago but dropped the series at some point. Too many books, lol. But that is to give context to my opinion on this show: it's been so long since I read those first few books, I don't remember most of it, so I'm not picking at every detail that they got wrong/changed for the show. I maybe noticed one or two major things from what I could remember that differed from the books.

That being said, I thought the show was bad. Like, as bad or worse than the Witcher S2. The characters did not work for me (for the most part) and the plot went from either meandering or seemingly moving way too fast (without ever finding a happy medium).

Perhaps I am spoiled by the abundance of quality television these days, but this one was a big oof for me.
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I loved Season 2 of The Witcher. If Wheel of Time was even close to as good then I'd be thrilled. Wheel Of Time changed nearly every event, castrated all male characters and was totally woke agenda driven while being horribly written and completely ignoring the lore of the books and having zero world building.

My wife liked it so I grumbled through it with her. Literally the one and only well done scene that fits with the books is Tigraine (maiden of the spear) wrecking Illianer soldiers while giving birth to the Dragon Reborn.
 
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#39
#39
LouderVol said:
If you want to remake/unmake a book/movie/comic whatever, do it. Dont toe the line, change with a purpose.

What makes the WoT special, imo, is there are SO many details that make it great in the end as they get woven together. I contend the story just gets better and better the more books you get because you see all the threads come together, interact, and go on to influence the story. The show is changing these or cutting those details. None of them would take any more time than what they already. Things they could drop in without calling attention to. Or things wrong.

Loial should be 10 feet tall. The way gates dont require the one power, how do the trollocs and fades use it if no one power? They were created by the ogier and aes sedai so the ogier could travel between steddings and major cities, the Ogier dont use the one power.

What did they gain with those changes? I could probably pull 10-20 details like that just from season one without sitting down with the book, or being super nit picky. These are details that matter in the story that all feed together.
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Rafe is a hack who doesn't give a damn about the story. Whole season was a joke...they couldn't even properly express the importance of the story to the universe. These events literally threaten the fabric of existence in all worlds.
 
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#40
#40
n_huffhines said:
I'm only 4 episodes into WoT but that's one episode further than I got in Witcher. I didn't get that show at all. It felt like a big-budget version of Sorbo's Hercules.
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Season 1 was rough at times. Season 2 makes it all worth it. I loved it and it was fully cohesive.
 
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#41
#41
LouderVol said:
If you want to remake/unmake a book/movie/comic whatever, do it. Dont toe the line, change with a purpose.

What makes the WoT special, imo, is there are SO many details that make it great in the end as they get woven together. I contend the story just gets better and better the more books you get because you see all the threads come together, interact, and go on to influence the story. The show is changing these or cutting those details. None of them would take any more time than what they already. Things they could drop in without calling attention to. Or things wrong.

Loial should be 10 feet tall. The way gates dont require the one power, how do the trollocs and fades use it if no one power? They were created by the ogier and aes sedai so the ogier could travel between steddings and major cities, the Ogier dont use the one power.

What did they gain with those changes? I could probably pull 10-20 details like that just from season one without sitting down with the book, or being super nit picky. These are details that matter in the story that all feed together.
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Padan Fain was helping them, but it was only shown in an extra scene cut from the show for whatever reason.
 
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#42
#42
wwilso29 said:
Padan Fain was helping them, but it was only shown in an extra scene cut from the show for whatever reason.
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Padan fain doesnt use the one power either. I do have to say though, I think they nailed his character.

If you watch carefully he shows up in the background of at least one other scene where the attention isnt on him. I thought that was an incredibly great detail. The type that would make this show, the way it made the books.
 
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#43
#43
gainesvol82 said:
Rafe is a hack who doesn't give a damn about the story. Whole season was a joke...they couldn't even properly express the importance of the story to the universe. These events literally threaten the fabric of existence in all worlds.
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Or the whole rebirth thing for more than just the Dragon Reborn. Cut at least 6 major characters, who show up throughout the series. With them cut, or left put for now, I have no idea how they are going to do one of the main story arcs. They are just going to have to retcon stuff in later so it wont make sense with the story line.
 
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#44
#44
LouderVol said:
Padan fain doesnt use the one power either. I do have to say though, I think they nailed his character.

If you watch carefully he shows up in the background of at least one other scene where the attention isnt on him. I thought that was an incredibly great detail. The type that would make this show, the way it made the books.
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They hint at him being in scenes where you can hear him whistling in the background like in Shadar Logoth.
 
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#45
#45
LouderVol said:
Or the whole rebirth thing for more than just the Dragon Reborn. Cut at least 6 major characters, who show up throughout the series. With them cut, or left put for now, I have no idea how they are going to do one of the main story arcs. They are just going to have to retcon stuff in later so it wont make sense with the story line.
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I've read a lot of WoT communities making excuses about Covid presenting challenges with filming but that still doesn't excuse the terrible writing and woke agenda pushing. I just finished my umpteenth reread and it only highlighted how horrible the show is. It will get cancelled after 2-3 seasons.

I just someone competent who loves the books eventually buys the rights and does a proper adaptation but that probably won't happen for at least another decade or two. Maybe society won't be so obsessed with race/sexuality/gender then and we get a non politicized version.
 
#46
#46
Didn't read it. Found the show interesting enough to finish and unlike Mercy I enjoyed S2 of the Witcher (which I also haven't read)
 
#47
#47
gainesvol82 said:
I've read a lot of WoT communities making excuses about Covid presenting challenges with filming but that still doesn't excuse the terrible writing and woke agenda pushing. I just finished my umpteenth reread and it only highlighted how horrible the show is. It will get cancelled after 2-3 seasons.

I just someone competent who loves the books eventually buys the rights and does a proper adaptation but that probably won't happen for at least another decade or two. Maybe society won't be so obsessed with race/sexuality/gender then and we get a non politicized version.
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Their budget was absolutely massive on this and the quality is wanting. IIRC it was more money than GoT 1. And not quality like the visuals or CGI, even though I do take some umbrage with their depiction of Trollocs.

It's like they tried on somethings, Fades. But gave up on others. And yeah the writing is weird and you dont get the character depth that you get in the book. Like if you did a blind "who said it" in the books you could probably tell who said it. But in the shows I feel like the writing is all the same with tone, delivery, timing, things like that, that you couldnt do a blind "who said it".
 
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#48
#48
LouderVol said:
Their budget was absolutely massive on this and the quality is wanting. IIRC it was more money than GoT 1. And not quality like the visuals or CGI, even though I do take some umbrage with their depiction of Trollocs.

It's like they tried on somethings, Fades. But gave up on others. And yeah the writing is weird and you dont get the character depth that you get in the book. Like if you did a blind "who said it" in the books you could probably tell who said it. But in the shows I feel like the writing is all the same with tone, delivery, timing, things like that, that you couldnt do a blind "who said it".
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More interesting in agenda pushing than adapting one of the best fantasy stories of all time. Women rock, men are idiots/pussies and "look at us, we race swapped 2/3 of the characters...we're so progressive and better than you fans who want a mostly true adaptation".

Rafe responding to criticism by saying "I'll turn all your favorite characters gay because I can" tells me all I need to know about him and the chances of this show being good. They took a 10 million an episode budget and gave us no sword fights, very little channeling action except for ridiculous displays from women who aren't powerful yet or did things that are impossible in the books. We also got a bunch of whiney, crying warders.

That is like making a show about Navy Seals who are in touch with their feelings, don't fight and can be tracked and bested by untrained village girls.
 
#49
#49
gainesvol82 said:
More interesting in agenda pushing than adapting one of the best fantasy stories of all time. Women rock, men are idiots/pussies and "look at us, we race swapped 2/3 of the characters...we're so progressive and better than you fans who want a mostly true adaptation".

Rafe responding to criticism by saying "I'll turn all your favorite characters gay because I can" tells me all I need to know about him and the chances of this show being good. They took a 10 million an episode budget and gave us no sword fights, very little channeling action except for ridiculous displays from women who aren't powerful yet or did things that are impossible in the books. We also got a bunch of whiney, crying warders.

That is like making a show about Navy Seals who are in touch with their feelings, don't fight and can be tracked and bested by untrained village girls.
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There wasnt exactly a lot of male channeling in the first couple books. And even later it's still pretty much Rand. For the " good guys" Nyneave is the most powerful female channeler, and it's not even supposed to be close.

My main issue with the channelling is that they showed a lot of it wrong.
The Aes Sedai form a circle to shield a man.
While shielded you cant cast at all, not that your casting cant escape a bubble, but you are cut off from the source.
When linked you cant force someone to draw more than they can handle.
The Moraine Matt thing I am hoping they are going to retcon her not actually getting the job finished which is why Matt made the choices he did. Trying not to do spoilers.
And at the end I am giving them the benefit of the doubt that

Just heard that Matt's actor isnt returning so that may be why he was wrote the way he was. But at this point I dont have much faith to make things better
 
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#50
#50
The race thing doesnt bother me a ton, as most of it doesnt matter to the story. It's not like it's a world of only white people. The borderlanders are all asian. Tear would be African or Indian, Illain had olive skin and dark hair. The Sea People are dark skinned/black, many of the Seanchan are black. So the races are in the books. It's not like the writers have to invent other races for the books.

That wokeness seems misplaced more than wrong. Because sure at first they are just in "white areas", so they didnt want the vast majority of the first couple seasons reflecting that. But the flip side is that later when they are elsewhere their forced diversity is going to make places less culturally true/fitting.

The Aes Sedai also definitely had "pillow friends" which certainly implies something without saying it. Not sure about the particular characters they chose for it, but again it wasnt invented by the writers, just misplaced.

Those things didnt bother my "purity test" much as long as they didnt change the story in a negative.
 
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