They Don’t Pay Their Fair Share

#526
#526
luthervol said:
I wouldn't view it as punishment.
But even your preferred system of a flat 15% of income punishes the wealthy more than McDad's equal amount for everyone.
Why should THIV pay more in taxes just because he makes more?
Click to expand...
Interestingly we are drifting toward discussing the concept of taxes as punishment. Punishment, to be equally consequential should be relative. For example, in some countries a fine or ticket is scaled based on a person's salary. That is a just system of punishment because two people feel the same amount of consequence regardless of the thier different incomes.

Taxes should not inherently seek to punish or reward anyone. Taxes should be disperse the obligations equally and raise revenue accordingly.
 
  • Like
Reactions: marcusluvsvols, volfanhill and hog88
#528
#528
hog88 said:
If all I have to do to be exempt from paying income taxes is to be a convicted felon sign me up. Lost all my guns in the flood anyway.
Click to expand...

That's one way to look at it. Another way is to reinstate a felon's rights (including the right to vote) after they have served their punishment.
 
  • Like
Reactions: volfanhill
#529
#529
McDad said:
That's one way to look at it. Another way is to reinstate a felon's rights (including the right to vote) after they have served their punishment.
Click to expand...

I agree and have posted that thought many times.
 
  • Like
Reactions: McDad
#530
#530
LouderVol said:
We are supposed to be equal in this country, not equitable. At least I dont remember seeing anything requiring equitability from our Consititution.

And you have yet to establish why we need to punish those who, at least in your opinion, benefit more, from an equal providence.

You rail against a perceived injustice yet every thing you suggest as remedy are actual injustices.
Click to expand...
Do you think everyone should pay the same amount of property tax regardless of the value of their property or do you think the tax should be based on the value of their property?
Paying no property tax is not an option.
 
#533
#533
luthervol said:
Do you think everyone should pay the same amount of property tax regardless of the value of their property or do you think the tax should be based on the value of their property?
Paying no property tax is not an option.
Click to expand...
You understand property taxes are flat? The same percentage applies to the shack as well as the mansion.
 
  • Like
Reactions: marcusluvsvols
#534
#534
luthervol said:
Do you think everyone should pay the same amount of property tax regardless of the value of their property or do you think the tax should be based on the value of their property?
Paying no property tax is not an option.
Click to expand...
Property tax is different than income tax.

I would think it's based on use type and total area. X rate over Y area. Based on municpality, never a federal level.

Now if you are asking what I would want to see the system be that is entirely different.
 
#535
#535
McDad said:
Interestingly we are drifting toward discussing the concept of taxes as punishment. Punishment, to be equally consequential should be relative. For example, in some countries a fine or ticket is scaled based on a person's salary. That is a just system of punishment because two people feel the same amount of consequence regardless of the thier different incomes.

Taxes should not inherently seek to punish or reward anyone. Taxes should be disperse the obligations equally and raise revenue accordingly.
Click to expand...
My wife’s healthcare premiums are much higher than some of her colleagues. Same plan. No differences whatsoever.

The reason for this is solely income related. She makes more, so she pays more. They actually used the term “social justice” in their reasoning for creating this plan.

I wonder if they took into account the years of sacrifice we made in order for her to achieve her higher salary. I can remember times our family would come to visit and she had to stay home and study all day instead of spending time with us. The 4am Sunday morning study sessions to prepare for her exams.

Oh I’m sure they did. Nothing says social justice like punishing those that work hard.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Vol423 and McDad
#539
#539
McDad said:
Interestingly we are drifting toward discussing the concept of taxes as punishment. Punishment, to be equally consequential should be relative. For example, in some countries a fine or ticket is scaled based on a person's salary. That is a just system of punishment because two people feel the same amount of consequence regardless of the thier different incomes.

Taxes should not inherently seek to punish or reward anyone. Taxes should be disperse the obligations equally and raise revenue accordingly.
Click to expand...
I would replace equally with equitably.
An equal sharing of the burden does not mean everyone pays the same.
Let me try this analogy (just thinking it up on the fly)
You have a truckload of rock delivered to your house that you want to use to line the bottom of your fence in the back yard. They dump the rock at the top of your driveway. On Saturday you plan to have family work day to more the rocks. You, your wife, your 17 year old sun, your 5 year old daughter, and your 76 year old mother in law all show up in overalls ready to work and do their fair share. Does that mean you should each move the same amount of rocks during the day? Or does that mean that you should each work equally hard to accomplish the job (knowing that each individual will more a vastly different amount of rock)? What is equitable?
 
  • Like
Reactions: McDad
#540
#540
hog88 said:
It has to be since you can't demonstrate how wealth inequity hurts anyone.
Click to expand...
It has been demonstrated.
I gave you suicide, incarceration, and drug addiction rates of our country compared to others.
 
#542
#542
Only taxes should be sales taxes. Basic food items would be tax free. Same with clothes, and other extreme basics/requirements, including medicines and treatments. Maybe you get a set value for things like homes or transportation. First 80k, or whatever, is tax free.

Anything that goes beyond basic requirements gets hit with a luxury tax.

Some items are luxury goods period. Anything that is need or preference based would be taxed as a luxury item.

I could see some items easily having 100%+ tax rates attached.

I would also allow for stacking of tax rates, city, state, federal, but the categories would need to be set by the federal level. An apple is always a basic food item, caviar is always a luxury, something like that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: McDad
#543
#543
luthervol said:
I would replace equally with equitably.
An equal sharing of the burden does not mean everyone pays the same.
Let me try this analogy (just thinking it up on the fly)
You have a truckload of rock delivered to your house that you want to use to line the bottom of your fence in the back yard. They dump the rock at the top of your driveway. On Saturday you plan to have family work day to more the rocks. You, your wife, your 17 year old sun, your 5 year old daughter, and your 76 year old mother in law all show up in overalls ready to work and do their fair share. Does that mean you should each move the same amount of rocks during the day? Or does that mean that you should each work equally hard to accomplish the job (knowing that each individual will more a vastly different amount of rock)? What is equitable?
Click to expand...
In your scenario everyone works. Even the 76 year old. In America there is a large portion of society, able bodied, and they show up and decide not work. Mainly because the neighbor is handing out free pizza and has the Xbox set-up.
If everyone were working and doing their part, the rest of us probably wouldn’t complain so much 😉
 
#544
#544
hog88 said:
I'm not ready to go down that road. Convince me.
Click to expand...

Not sure I can. On one hand, both those groups benefit from America and what the government provides. OTOH, those groups have no power to foment change in how they are governed or by whom. It is generally accepted taxation without representation is improper.
 
#545
#545
McDad said:
You understand property taxes are flat? The same percentage applies to the shack as well as the mansion.
Click to expand...
You understand that the mansion is valued at a higher amount than the shack?
The equivalent property tax plan to your tax plan would be that the person living in the shack would pay the exact same amount of property tax as the person living in the mansion. (Budget divided by number of buildings)
 
#546
#546
VOLS INC. said:
My wife’s healthcare premiums are much higher than some of her colleagues. Same plan. No differences whatsoever.

The reason for this is solely income related. She makes more, so she pays more. They actually used the term “social justice” in their reasoning for creating this plan.

I wonder if they took into account the years of sacrifice we made in order for her to achieve her higher salary. I can remember times our family would come to visit and she had to stay home and study all day instead of spending time with us. The 4am Sunday morning study sessions to prepare for her exams.

Oh I’m sure they did. Nothing says social justice like punishing those that work hard.
Click to expand...
Oh yeah, I get to join Medicare this year and have discovered that I'll be in the 3rd or 4th tier of "you made too much damn money", here is your penalty. I was looking for a break from the ACA and it looks like I get to pay more than I was. Nothing better than being middle class.
 
#547
#547
VOLS INC. said:
In your scenario everyone works. Even the 76 year old. In America there is a large portion of society, able bodied, and they show up and decide not work. Mainly because the neighbor is handing out free pizza and has the Xbox set-up.
If everyone were working and doing their part, the rest of us probably wouldn’t complain so much 😉
Click to expand...
No one, and I mean no one, likes a free loader. Everyone, and I mean everyone, would like freeloaders taken off of the teat.
Clinton did this better than anyone.
 
  • Like
Reactions: VOLS INC.
#549
#549
McDad said:
That's one way to look at it. Another way is to reinstate a felon's rights (including the right to vote) after they have served their punishment.
Click to expand...

The question the Republicans are now pushing is when is their punishment over. For example, in Florida prisoners are paid roughly $0.32/ hour and are billed at the rate of $50.00 per day. So, to put that in perspective, an inmate who does a 5 year sentence come out owing about 90k. Cannot vote until you pay that back.
 
#550
#550
luthervol said:
It has been demonstrated.
I gave you suicide, incarceration, and drug addiction rates of our country compared to others.
Click to expand...
Those are all victim driven, not the rich third party driven.

Your equatability also ignores a large reality of personal differences. It assumes that 76 yo grandma is decripid. I am not sure about my grandmother at that age, but I know my 76 yo grandfather could out work me any day of the week in my life. At 65 my grandmother probably could have out worked me.
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top