They Don’t Pay Their Fair Share

#601
#601
luthervol said:
You understand that the mansion is valued at a higher amount than the shack?
The equivalent property tax plan to your tax plan would be that the person living in the shack would pay the exact same amount of property tax as the person living in the mansion. (Budget divided by number of buildings)
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Yes, I do. Making sure you appreciate you are using an scenario incongruous with your preferred system of graduated taxation rates.
 
#602
#602
sjt18 said:
Consumers pay all taxes eventually... either with money or want (reduced standard of living). The effort to "tax the rich" is just one more case where the left wishes something were true and tries to use legislation to change reality according to "natural law".

You can never truly tax a producer. Supply side economics understands and flows with that simple fact of reality. If you attempt to tax a producer (to include executives and investors) then you either cause them to include those costs in the price of the product sold to consumers... or you cause them to reduce or stop production because they can no longer make a profit.

The numbers thrown around are flawed. Most of the "rich" in question aren't Warren Buffett or Bill Gates kinds of "rich" people. They're mostly small business owners, doctors, lawyers, middle managers, etc. Big enough to make decent money... not big enough to take advantage of 6 decades of accumulated tax loopholes designed for politicians and their friends. Most of those rules were in place before 1994.

If you truly care about the tax burden being equitably distributed then the "FAIR Tax" or something like it is your best option. You end up taxing the consumption or the economic exchange instead of a person. The founders recognized this which is why they included language to prevent the Federal Government from directly taxing individuals. Progressives changed that in 1913.
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Also this. Apologies, i am just now close to reading this entire thread. Wasnt here for a couple weeks and much was discussed in my absence naturally...
 
#603
#603
ClearwaterVol said:
The question the Republicans are now pushing is when is their punishment over. For example, in Florida prisoners are paid roughly $0.32/ hour and are billed at the rate of $50.00 per day. So, to put that in perspective, an inmate who does a 5 year sentence come out owing about 90k. Cannot vote until you pay that back.
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Decisions have consequences.

Once debt to society is paid, rights should be restored (either provisional, conditional, or in full).
 
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#606
#606
LouderVol said:
Only taxes should be sales taxes. Basic food items would be tax free. Same with clothes, and other extreme basics/requirements, including medicines and treatments. Maybe you get a set value for things like homes or transportation. First 80k, or whatever, is tax free.

Anything that goes beyond basic requirements gets hit with a luxury tax.

Some items are luxury goods period. Anything that is need or preference based would be taxed as a luxury item.

I could see some items easily having 100%+ tax rates attached.

I would also allow for stacking of tax rates, city, state, federal, but the categories would need to be set by the federal level. An apple is always a basic food item, caviar is always a luxury, something like that.
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Luxury taxes are industry killers and have failed every time they have been implemented.
 
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#611
#611
hog88 said:
Goodbye jet business.
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With zero income or capital gains tax? Paying 5 or 10% more for a jet/supercar/yacht would discourage the purchase by people with enough money to spend $10MM on an airplane rather than flying in 1st class or chartering?

I dont think so. The people i have worked for who had that kind of $...10% increase in price was nothing. Hell, they would pay 20% more just to have an airplane that was 1 foot longer than their neighbors plane. I dont see demand for luxury products decreasing.

The biggest drawback in my mind is how much $ would have to be spent shutting down blackmarkets/ preventing tax dodging. That could be an issue...but everything the .gov does could be an issue. That's why we need a much smaller .gov...point of sales tax eliminates the IRS also...whoch the Communists just increased the size of again.

Edit: we arent talking about a luxury tax. We are talking an "every damn thing you buy" tax. Everything. Socks. A car. A house. Everything.

The poor man buys 20k worth of goods /services in a year? Pays 2k

Rich man buys $20MM worth? He pays $2MM.

No exception except maybe food. With a limit based on persons fed (with SS#s needed).

No fed income tax. No capital gains. No death or inheritance. None.

Buy mucho sheit? Pay mucho taxes. Buy a little stuff? Pay a little taxes.

Same rate for every citizen period.

That is fair. It is equal taxation.
 
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#612
#612
AshG said:
And what if one of the neighbors is disabled and unable to move the rock themselves?
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About 100 years ago... we didn't have welfare. We didn't have food stamps. We didn't have SSI. We didn't have disability. We didn't have any form of wealth redistribution other than the market.

We also didn't have grannies and little children dying of starvation in the streets. Families understood their responsibilities to members of their family. Churches understood that charity was a function of the church and not the government. Communities recognized and took care of those in genuine need... and cut off the free loaders.

Your question should be... what would "I" do if one of my neighbors was disabled or unable to move rock themselves.

Both of my parents are gone now. When they got to the point physically where they could not take care of themselves, I moved them in with my family. We took care of them. We made sacrifices in many ways because it was the right thing to do. I am responsible for my parents... YOU are not. It was not an easy choice. It was difficult for the better part of 5 years until my mom died.

We have a responsibility for our own families first and then our neighbors. We were once a country that understood that.
 
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#614
#614
AshG said:
That is handled through civil, not criminal, judicial action.
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Is it? How many victims actually recoup anything from the criminal? How about the costs of non-monetary crimes like rape or assault?

The proposition is that once the criminal is released... they can turn around and vote themselves benefits out of the wallet of their victim. Is that just?
 
#616
#616
sjt18 said:
Is it? How many victims actually recoup anything from the criminal? How about the costs of non-monetary crimes like rape or assault?

The proposition is that once the criminal is released... they can turn around and vote themselves benefits out of the wallet of their victim. Is that just?
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According to our laws, it is just.
 
#617
#617
sjt18 said:
And if Idiocracy weren't intentional satire making fun of liberalism... it did a pretty good job.
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Idiocracy was a mockery of hypercapitalism and a warning against making academia/public education an enemy of the state.

You probably also think that people can "pull themselves up by their bootstraps".
 
#619
#619
sjt18 said:
About 100 years ago... we didn't have welfare. We didn't have food stamps. We didn't have SSI. We didn't have disability. We didn't have any form of wealth redistribution other than the market.

We also didn't have grannies and little children dying of starvation in the streets. Families understood their responsibilities to members of their family. Churches understood that charity was a function of the church and not the government. Communities recognized and took care of those in genuine need... and cut off the free loaders.

Your question should be... what would "I" do if one of my neighbors was disabled or unable to move rock themselves.

Both of my parents are gone now. When they got to the point physically where they could not take care of themselves, I moved them in with my family. We took care of them. We made sacrifices in many ways because it was the right thing to do. I am responsible for my parents... YOU are not. It was not an easy choice. It was difficult for the better part of 5 years until my mom died.

We have a responsibility for our own families first and then our neighbors. We were once a country that understood that.
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Nice post.

Hog...see my edit above
 
#620
#620
marcusluvsvols said:
With zero income or capital gains tax? Paying 5 or 10% more for a jet/supercar/yacht would discourage the purchase by people with enough money to spend $10MM on an airplane rather than flying in 1st class or chartering?

I dont think so. The people i have worked for who had that kind of $...10% increase in price was nothing. Hell, they would pay 20% more just to have an airplane that was 1 foot longer than their neighbors plane. I dont see demand for luxury products decreasing.

The biggest drawback in my mind is how much $ would have to be spent shutting down blackmarkets/ preventing tax dodging. That could be an issue...but everything the .gov does could be an issue. That's why we need a much smaller .gov...point of sales tax eliminates the IRS also...whoch the Communists just increased the size of again.
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Most rich guys don't buy personal jets. Their companies buy the jets because they can write off the expenses and depreciate the assets in addition to easing travel for themselves. A lot of them turn that purchase into a business and offer their jet on a charter service. So tagging a $10mil purchase with another mil and zero way to recoup that cost would severely hurt if not kill the corporate jet market.

The luxury taxes of the early 90s decimated the yacht industry.
 
#625
#625
VOLS INC. said:
What do you do?

Not a trap question. Not picking a fight. Just seems like everyone knows but me.
Just curious.
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I work in public education. The general assumption here (that was never once stated by me - nor will it be) is that I am a teacher. I do have many years of experience as a teacher and a coach. My wife is a high school calculus teacher.
 
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