They Don’t Pay Their Fair Share

#877
#877
Vol8188 said:
Who told you that the greatest predictor of success is parents? Can you provide source for that? I’ve always seen IQ as the largest predictor of success.

Why are you assuming childhood commonalities or any of their advantages are a result of government?
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You misquoted, it is not the success of their parents (as looth says) but their parents involvement in their lives. Two completely different lines of thinking. looth always wants to blame success and failure on someone other than the person responsible.
 
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#878
#878
82_VOL_83 said:
What has happened in this country and it started with Clinton is the "redefinition" of classes. There never was a hard definition, it was mostly conjecture. However, when Barry got in the white house, all the sudden the folks that we (my age group) would have considered the upper half of the middle class all the sudden became rich and those that would have been in the "lower financial" class were now middle class. This is how we conflate useless definitions with actual numbers and stats and then make them mean whatever the agenda needs.
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Bubba Clinton. It wasn't that long ago, he was put in the race to capture the South conservative.
 
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#879
#879
Rasputin_Vol said:
Yeah, us Gen-Xers were the transitional generation. We had some of the old traditional values mixed in with the Clinton Era liberal doctrine in our college years.

Gen-X is a mixed bag.
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As a 44 year old, I agree with this. I was raised in a Blue Dog house (now Yellow) but once I could see for myself and mold my own views it was a an easy choice.
 
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#880
#880
So far we’ve been told the success of the wealthy is due to their parents and their parents are successful due to the government.

But we have no clue how the government has favored them
 
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#881
#881
VOLS INC. said:
Given this information.
Seems like we should invest in those that have the best chance of being successful, and punt on the ones that don’t.

rational and reasonable 😉
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More feelz from the lefties. Life will never be “fair”. There will be winners and losers. Some will succeed because they are smart or hard working or make themselves better. Some will whine about the jealous of why others are happy and they aren’t
 
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#882
#882
Rickyvol77 said:
More feelz from the lefties. Life will never be “fair”. There will be winners and losers. Some will succeed because they are smart or hard working or make themselves better. Some will whine about the jealous of why others are happy and they aren’t
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If we tax the winners enough we can all be losers. They’ll tell you they don’t want everyone to be equally poor but then they’ll turn around and praise the “income/wealth equality” in Cuba
 
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#883
#883
sjt18 said:
Please establish that either was a "child of God" in the "biblical sense". In John 8, Jesus called men who were in the moral sense greatly superior to either of those men... children of Satan.

Where did you get that idea? It is not in our power to condemn people. But there are numerous commands in the NT and examples both from Christ and the Apostles showing that we are to take stands against evil behavior. Do you recall the story of John the Baptist? Jesus called him the greatest of all prophets. He was beheaded for "judging" Herod's adultery.

Even in rescuing the woman caught in adultery, Jesus commanded her to "go your way and sin no more". 1 John is one of the "love" epistles and is full of "judgment". Matthew 18 establishes that if someone is known to be in habitual sin that a person has a responsibility to confront them. If they do not respond, two are to go. Eventually the church is to remove that person from the congregation until they repent.

Practically the whole book of 1 Corinthians was a rebuke of behavior within that congregation... which included acts considered incest. There is at least an allusion to some returning to homosexuality.

The abuse of the "judge not" passages is not "Christian" in nature. It is worldly. It is a carnal attempt to "make peace" with sin.

I didn't assign such a dichotomy. Christians have tried to lay claim to Lincoln and I have no means to know his heart. He made Christian affirming statements but politically he needed the zeal of Christians who were the driving force behind ending slavery.

If you do not think Lincoln was better in the temporal, human sense... in the sense of general character and intentions... than Hitler. You truly need some help.

We can have a discussion on American Indians if you like. There were some grotesque abuses of them at various times. But the idea that Europeans came in and attacked them and "stole their land" is WAY off. The best estimates for Indian population in ALL of North America when Columbus arrived... is about 40 million. That's Panama to the Arctic. For reference, grab a world map and look at California. The entire population in NA in 1492 was about the same as CA now. IOW's, there were wide expanses of unused and undeveloped land. Far from being a "change"... Europeans were just a new, more technologically advanced enemy. The tribes didn't live in some sort of peaceful, unspoiled Eden. They attacked each other over land claims. They raided and killed each other for food and supplies. They stole women and children. They enslaved one another. You like many today see them as a single group. They NEVER saw themselves that way.

Even in all of that... the greatest harm done to native tribes was NOT bullets or intentional. Europeans brought diseases that previous plagues had left them greatly immune to. Disease was the cause of death for most natives who died... not exposure or sabers.

There is no comparison between the actual intentional abuses of the native Tribes... as bad as they were... and Hitler's very intentional slaughter of people he considered inferior and obstacles to his master race. Lincoln's part in that... wouldn't even come close.
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Even though Lincoln ordered the largest mass execution in this country of a group of people, he knew were innocent, just because they were the Natives they caught? Not even a sliver?

I think when you forcibly segregate people, then remove them from their homes, take away their rights, kill off a sizable portion of their population, order what can only be called atrocities against them, it's fair to throw some Hitler comparisons out there.
 
#884
#884
Vol8188 said:
So far we’ve been told the success of the wealthy is due to their parents success and their parents are successful due to the government.

But we have no clue how the government has favored them
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Important distinction 8188. I believe that parents are just about the most important factor to wide spread success (vs. the rare individual go getter that goes from nothing to multi-millions). I do not believe that the "success" of the parents helps and in some cases may hinder.
 
#885
#885
luthervol said:
Genes and family are biggest predictor of academic success
Summary: Whether children will enjoy academic success can be now predicted at birth, a new study suggests. The study found that parents' socioeconomic status and children's inherited DNA differences are powerful predictors of educational achievement.

Georgetown Study: Wealth, Not Ability, The Biggest Predictor Of Future Success
Georgetown Study: Wealth, Not Ability, The Biggest Predictor Of Future Success

The advantages are tied to the society in which they, their parents, their grandparents, etc.... lived.
The quality of that society cannot be separated from the government's role in creating and maintaining that society.
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Well, we should just sterilize those with bad DNA right? Reasonable and Rational. They can just party all their lives, live off gubment assistance and not pass their gene pool on.
 
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#886
#886
Rickyvol77 said:
More feelz from the lefties. Life will never be “fair”. There will be winners and losers. Some will succeed because they are smart or hard working or make themselves better. Some will whine about the jealous of why others are happy and they aren’t
Click to expand...

You don’t like the result, change it. Simple effective philosophy.
 
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#888
#888
luthervol said:
Genes and family are biggest predictor of academic success
Summary: Whether children will enjoy academic success can be now predicted at birth, a new study suggests. The study found that parents' socioeconomic status and children's inherited DNA differences are powerful predictors of educational achievement.

Georgetown Study: Wealth, Not Ability, The Biggest Predictor Of Future Success
Georgetown Study: Wealth, Not Ability, The Biggest Predictor Of Future Success

The advantages are tied to the society in which they, their parents, their grandparents, etc.... lived.
The quality of that society cannot be separated from the government's role in creating and maintaining that society.
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You have moved the discussion point with this post. General success was the conversation. Your post and links address academic success. Academic success =/= to general success. Additionally, the second link which address future success is severely limited in scope. This quote shows how:
By looking at years of data from different sources, the Georgetown researchers found that smart poor students are less likely to become wealthy by age 25 than not-so-smart rich students. The poor students also have less chance of graduating from college than their low-performing wealthy peers.

...less likely to become wealthy at 25. 25 :rolleyes:
 
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#889
#889
LouderVol said:
Even though Lincoln ordered the largest mass execution in this country of a group of people, he knew were innocent, just because they were the Natives they caught? Not even a sliver?

I think when you forcibly segregate people, then remove them from their homes, take away their rights, kill off a sizable portion of their population, order what can only be called atrocities against them, it's fair to throw some Hitler comparisons out there.
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Lincoln was the greatest eva
 
#890
#890
sjt18 said:
There is a false notion imbedded in every discussion of the income tax. The "rich" always transfer the "pain" of their taxes onto someone else. Not maliciously... just because that's what they're forced to do.

If the taxes go up on someone who owns 5 quick stops... then they have a choice. They can go up on prices. They can curtail pay or benefits for their employees. They can squeeze their vendors. Ultimately if none of that works they can go out of business. What they cannot do is allow an "income tax" hike to turn a money maker into a money loser. Many seem to think that the "rich" can just eat less caviar... but regardless of where you stand in the socioeconomic spectrum... how receptive would you be if your company said they were cutting your pay by 40%?

In the long history of the "progressive" income tax... has it EVER closed the gap between "rich" and "poor"?
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It's only made it worse.

I am just trying to tie luther down to a point that can be objectively examined. He avoids it because every time he does, it gets blown up. So he stays in subjective land, and just says they should pay more. Never defining more, or why, or the fallout.
 
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#891
#891
LouderVol said:
I think when you forcibly segregate people, then remove them from their homes, take away their rights, kill off a sizable portion of their population, order what can only be called atrocities against them, it's fair to throw some Hitler comparisons out there.
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Believe in todays world they call it underserved populations.
 
#892
#892
luthervol said:
Genes and family are biggest predictor of academic success
Summary: Whether children will enjoy academic success can be now predicted at birth, a new study suggests. The study found that parents' socioeconomic status and children's inherited DNA differences are powerful predictors of educational achievement.

Georgetown Study: Wealth, Not Ability, The Biggest Predictor Of Future Success
Georgetown Study: Wealth, Not Ability, The Biggest Predictor Of Future Success

The advantages are tied to the society in which they, their parents, their grandparents, etc.... lived.
The quality of that society cannot be separated from the government's role in creating and maintaining that society.
Click to expand...
I thought it was just the government that made them successful? Or society.

Now it just looks like they owe their parents some moolah. And then their moolah some moolah.
 
#894
#894
LouderVol said:
I thought it was just the government that made them successful? Or society.

Now it just looks like they owe their parents some moolah. And then their moolah some moolah.
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That's okay. You are one of many who are confused.
 
#895
#895
Vol8188 said:
So far we’ve been told the success of the wealthy is due to their parents and their parents are successful due to the government.

But we have no clue how the government has favored them
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Also how this one same government is treating these different families differently. The same benefits are there for the taking by everyone, and the poor get it at a reduced price.

Another fallacy in Luther's assumption is that our government is somehow uniquely responsible for the success here. The rich are rich no matter the setting. The whole system could collapse tomorrow and the rich's lives wouldnt change. However that system collapse would wipe out all the support many of the poor have been crippled into accepting as their lot in life.
 
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#897
#897
LouderVol said:
Care to provide some actual metrics that have been requested? Something concrete would go a long way to clearing things up.
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I'll pass. I think I have already provided more "metrics" than anyone else in the discussion.
 
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