They Don’t Pay Their Fair Share

#126
#126
Vol8188 said:
Anyone want to explain this one?
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Because you can own a business that owns a lot of realestate and it just breaks even, but increases in value every year by 10%. Everyone needs income to live, but everything you own doesn't need to generate income.
 
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#128
#128
luthervol said:
I want everyone on here to see how poorly putin.vol comprehends. Where did I ever advocate this? I was simply showing where vol8188 was wrong in his original post.

Please try to read twice and think a bit more before jumping to absurdly inaccurate conclusions and posting them.
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You need to learn to read first. The original post was on taxes and income. You're arguing about a person's worth.
 
#129
#129
VolStrom said:
Because you can own a business that owns a lot of realestate and it just breaks even, but increases in value every year by 10%. Everyone needs income to live, but everything you own doesn't need to generate income.
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Okay. So my property value increases….until I’ve earned income from it, what’s the issue?

If I never earn income from that property, why tax it as property?

If I do earn income from that property, what’s wrong with just taxing that?

It seems simple. Only the income generated by wealth is useful. If it’s not generating income, why’s there a problem
 
#130
#130
McDad said:
@Vol8188 this is your discussion point:
Where does this myth that the wealthy don’t pay taxes come from? Especially given that we have the most progressive taxes in the world. Can anyone back it up with data?

Luther posted nothing related to your point. He is using a red herring to alter the discussion. And, he is succeeding. Stay on your topic. It is far more interesting than what Luther is bringing.
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McDad said:
Read OP again. He specifically addresses the top 1%, their share of income, and their share of taxes.
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What?
You said his question was about where the myth comes from.
My question is, what myth?
It seems pretty relevant.
Just trying to let you define what is being debated and what is worthy of discussion.
Is the "myth" now the red herring? Hard to keep up.
 
#131
#131
Vol8188 said:
Okay. So my property value increases….until I’ve earned income from it, what’s the issue?

If I never earn income from that property, why tax it as property?

If I do earn income from that property, what’s wrong with just taxing that?

It seems simple. Only the income generated by wealth is useful. If it’s not generating income, why’s there a problem
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Would you rather the city and county wait until you sold it and then tax you on the difference between the purchase price and sales price?
 
#132
#132
luthervol said:
What?
You said his question was about where the myth comes from.
My question is, what myth?
It seems pretty relevant.
Just trying to let you define what is being debated and what is worthy of discussion.
Is the "myth" now the red herring? Hard to keep up.
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So you’re still here and just not willing to engage? Seems par for the course
 
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#133
#133
Vol8188 said:
I’ve replied to you about three times without any response.

You stated Sweden’s highest income bracket is equal to $70,000k here.

How is that a more progressive income tax system? If we taxed people making 70k the same as those making 700k like they do in Sweden, how would that be more progressive?
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I don't think it would be.
 
#134
#134
VolStrom said:
Would you rather the city and county wait until you sold it and then tax you on the difference between the purchase price and sales price?
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So we agree if it generates income it’s taxed? Why should the federal government tax anything above the income it’s generated?

The point here is simple. You can’t make an argument for it without equating income and wealth. The only way to believe a wealth tax should be applied is if you’re mistaking wealth for income
 
#136
#136
Billionaires Grew Their Wealth by $340B in 2021 as Middle Class Shrinks (breitbart.com)

And in 2021 the Presidency, House and Senate were all controlled by the democrat Party. It seems the rich got richer while the democrats were in charge. There is a reason more billionaires support the democrat party. The democrat party is officially the party of the rich and the elites. I hate to break your heart Luther but facts are facts.
 
#138
#138
Vol8188 said:
So we agree if it generates income it’s taxed? Why should the federal government tax anything above the income it’s generated?

The point here is simple. You can’t make an argument for it without equating income and wealth. The only way to believe a wealth tax should be applied is if you’re mistaking wealth for income
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The bottom line is that your local municipality needs money for their government and schools, they get it by taxing your property and what you spend on goods and services. The feds get their money from taking part of your income, and that is the cycle of life.
 
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#139
#139
luthervol said:
I didn't equate the two, I was simply providing a fact. The top 1% holds more wealth than the entire middle class (and the gap is widening).
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If you don’t equate the two, explain the value of wealth without income. If I have a ton of wealth and no income, why does that matter? What good is it?
 
#140
#140
VolStrom said:
The bottom line is that your local municipality needs money for their government and schools, they get it by taxing your property and what you spend on goods and services. The feds get their money from taking part of your income, and that is the cycle of life.
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Cool? The point was regarding federal wealth tax.
 
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#141
#141
Vol8188 said:
So your own example of how their system is so much more progressive than ours is wrong? At least you’re honest
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Re-read the link.
It clearly says many consider Sweden to be the most progressive. It goes on to list a number of other countries that have a much higher top end tax rate.
I was simply countering your unsupported statement that "America has the most progressive tax system in the world'.
 
#142
#142
DonjoVol said:
Billionaires Grew Their Wealth by $340B in 2021 as Middle Class Shrinks (breitbart.com)

And in 2021 the Presidency, House and Senate were all controlled by the democrat Party. It seems the rich got richer while the democrats were in charge. There is a reason more billionaires support the democrat party. The democrat party is officially the party of the rich and the elites. I hate to break your heart Luther but facts are facts.
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That disparity has been growing every year.
 
#143
#143
Vol8188 said:
Cool? The point was regarding federal wealth tax.
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Maybe I lost track, but we don't have a federal wealth tax other than a graduated income tax scale of which no rich asshat pays. People that are middle to upper "middle class" are the ones that get F'd every year. The really rich like some pilots on here get away with paying little to no taxes.
 
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#144
#144
luthervol said:
Re-read the link.
It clearly says many consider Sweden to be the most progressive. It goes on to list a number of other countries that have a much higher top end tax rate.
I was simply countering your unsupported statement that "America has the most progressive tax system in the world'.
Click to expand...

A higher rate (like Sweden) is not the same as progressive. Do you know of any countries where the top 1% pays more than double their share of the income? That would be more progressive
 
#145
#145
VolStrom said:
Maybe I lost track, but we don't have a federal wealth tax other than a graduated income tax scale of which no rich asshat pays. People that are middle to upper "middle class" are the ones that get F'd every year. The really rich like some pilots on here get away with paying little to no taxes.
Click to expand...

You missed Luther talking about wealth
 
#146
#146
DonjoVol said:
Billionaires Grew Their Wealth by $340B in 2021 as Middle Class Shrinks (breitbart.com)

And in 2021 the Presidency, House and Senate were all controlled by the democrat Party. It seems the rich got richer while the democrats were in charge. There is a reason more billionaires support the democrat party. The democrat party is officially the party of the rich and the elites. I hate to break your heart Luther but facts are facts.
Click to expand...
The rich ALWAYS get richer over time? Why? Because almost all their wealth is invested. Joe Six Pack is just scraping by. He isn’t able to have almost all of his wealth invested.
 
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#149
#149
Vol423 said:
The rich ALWAYS get richer over time? Why? Because almost all their wealth is invested. Joe Six Pack is just scraping by. He isn’t able to have almost all of his wealth invested.
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Maybe he should spend less on 6 packs. In todays economy the majority of people are invested in the stock market. But I’d argue their biggest advantage is their debt and inflation
 
#150
#150
Vol8188 said:
A higher rate (like Sweden) is not the same as progressive. Do you know of any countries where the top 1% pays more than double their share of the income? That would be more progressive
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Wealth Inequality by Country 2021
Top 10 Countries with the Highest Wealth Inequality (World Bank Gini index):
  1. South Africa - 63.0%
  2. Namibia - 59.1%
  3. Suriname - 57.9%
  4. Zambia - 57.1%
  5. Sao Tome and Principe - 56.3%
  6. Central African Republic - 56.2%
  7. Eswatini - 54.6%
  8. Mozambique - 54.0%
  9. Brazil - 53.4%
  10. Botswana - 53.3%
We are in some mighty fine company. I don't see Sweden anywhere on there. Can you name another country where the top 1% controls as much of the wealth?
A progressive tax is one which limits that inequality.
 
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