They hate us for our freedoms

#1
RespectTradition

RespectTradition

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#1
In the past I have mocked the idea that they hate us for our freedoms. After watching more coverage on Iran and a couple of other places, I am reevaluating.

Maybe they do hate us for our freedoms:

Our freedom to insist that sovereign countries do as we tell them to

Our freedom to deploy our military to bases around the world

Our freedom to bomb anyone who disagrees with us

Our freedom to impose sanctions on countries who dare to chart their own course

Our freedom to be the only country to ever use nuclear weapons in anger

Our freedom to insist that no one else can join our nuclear weapons fraternity

Our freedom to kill anyone, anywhere, anytime and consider it to be justified

Our freedom to insist that if another country does the same, it is murder

Our freedom to use environmentally destructive technologies to get to the top of the economic food chain, then decide that it is bad and no one else should do the same

Our freedom to cause the deaths of countless innocents* and then claim we have the right to dethrone a dictator because he might do far less

Our freedom to detain anyone we think is suspicious but insist that other nations do not have that right

Our freedom to topple governments and install our stooges, then to attack them when they don't toe the line

Our freedom to invade and occupy another country, then tell them that their culture is wrong and they must adapt to our standards

Our freedom to manipulate our currency and condemn others for doing the same


*
Lesley Stahl on U.S. sanctions against Iraq: We have heard that a half million children have died. I mean, that's more children than died in Hiroshima. And, you know, is the price worth it?

Secretary of State Madeleine Albright: I think this is a very hard choice, but the price--we think the price is worth it.

--60 Minutes (5/12/96)

'We Think the Price Is Worth It'
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Can anyone else think of any more freedoms they hate us for?
 
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#2
#2
Our American Freedom to speak our minds and not be punished for it. A large portion of the world don't have this freedom.
 
#3
#3
Yeppers, I know a bunch of countries where the OP would bring a knock on the door later tonight.
 
#7
#7
RespectTradition said:
In the past I have mocked the idea that they hate us for our freedoms. After watching more coverage on Iran and a couple of other places, I am reevaluating.

Maybe they do hate us for our freedoms:

Our freedom to insist that sovereign countries do as we tell them to

Our freedom to deploy our military to bases around the world

Our freedom to bomb anyone who disagrees with us

Our freedom to impose sanctions on countries who dare to chart their own course

Our freedom to be the only country to ever use nuclear weapons in anger

Our freedom to insist that no one else can join our nuclear weapons fraternity

Our freedom to kill anyone, anywhere, anytime and consider it to be justified

Our freedom to insist that if another country does the same, it is murder

Our freedom to use environmentally destructive technologies to get to the top of the economic food chain, then decide that it is bad and no one else should do the same

Our freedom to cause the deaths of countless innocents* and then claim we have the right to dethrone a dictator because he might do far less

Our freedom to detain anyone we think is suspicious but insist that other nations do not have that right

Our freedom to topple governments and install our stooges, then to attack them when they don't toe the line

Our freedom to invade and occupy another country, then tell them that their culture is wrong and they must adapt to our standards

Our freedom to manipulate our currency and condemn others for doing the same


*

Can anyone else think of any more freedoms they hate us for?
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or freedom to read, write and say what we want
 
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#8
#8
Hey ya'll are right.

We have freedom of speech and whatnot. We are perfect. There are no flaws here. All the children are above average and the women are all beautiful.

Glad to know.

Here I thought we could get some things right and still screw up some other things royally. I guess I was wrong.

So, just to make sure I am understanding... they hate us because I can say what I want without being arrested?
 
#9
#9
Sounds like the argument of a 14 year old girl who wants go out on Friday night with her friends.
 
#10
#10
RespectTradition said:
Hey ya'll are right.

We have freedom of speech and whatnot. We are perfect. There are no flaws here. All the children are above average and the women are all beautiful.

Glad to know.

Here I thought we could get some things right and still screw up some other things royally. I guess I was wrong.

So, just to make sure I am understanding... they hate us because I can say what I want without being arrested?
Click to expand...

They don't hate us, they envy us and their leaders use it to make us believe it is hate.

Yes we make mistakes and yes we take actions that might look bad from some perspectives, especially if you listen to al Jazeera. But remember, the first report is always wrong and you can't believe everything you read as you only get about 10% of the facts in most cases.
 
#11
#11
RespectTradition said:
Hey ya'll are right.

We have freedom of speech and whatnot. We are perfect. There are no flaws here. All the children are above average and the women are all beautiful.

Glad to know.

Here I thought we could get some things right and still screw up some other things royally. I guess I was wrong.

So, just to make sure I am understanding... they hate us because I can say what I want without being arrested?
Click to expand...

You know it's not that simple. We are what other countries strive for, imperfections and all.
 
#13
#13
I would also disagree, but only until about 15 years ago. Since then, our superiority, leadership, and concept of freedom have been wavering.
 
#14
#14
This just happens to be one of the topics that I agree with Ron Paul on.

Why Do They Hate Us? Santorum: We're Free; Paul: We're There

Representative Ron Paul suggested that some military spending was actually making the nation less safe. He suggested the foreign policy of bombing a half dozen foreign nations (including Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, Pakistan, Somalia, and Libya) is causing hatred of the United States and is a motivating factor in the increasing attacks against U.S. troops abroad. Paul told the Tea Party audience:

We're under great threat because we occupy so many countries. We're in 130 countries — we have 900 bases around the world — we're going broke. The purpose of al Qaeda was to attack us, invite us over there where they can target us. And they have been doing it. They have more attacks against us and the American interests per month than occurred in all the years before 9/11. But we're there, occupying their land. And if we think we can do that and not have retaliation, we're kidding ourselves. We have to be honest with ourselves. What would we do if another country, say China, were to do what we do to all those countries over there. So I would say that a foreign policy that takes care of our national defense.... There's no authority in the Constitution to be the policeman of the world. And no nation-building, Just remember, George Bush won the presidency on that platform in the year 2000, and I still think it's a good platform.
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Former U.S. Senator Rick Santorum responded to Paul thusly:

On your website, on 9/11, you had a blog post that basically blamed the United States for 9/11. On your website, yesterday. You said that it was our actions that brought about the actions of 9/11. Now, Congressman Paul, that is irresponsible. Someone who is running for the President of the United States in the Republican Party should not be parroting what Osama bin Ladin said on 9/11. We are not being attacked, and were not attacked because of our actions. We were attacked, as Newt talked about, because we have a civilization that is antithetical to the civilization of the jihadists. And they want to kill us because of who we are and what we stand for, and what we stand for is American exceptionalism. We stand for freedom and opportunity for everyone around the world, and I am not ashamed to do that.
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The blog entry Santorum referred to was Jack Hunter's "Learning Nothing from 9/11," which did not claim Americans were guilty of the 9/11 attacks. Rather, it quoted the head of the CIA's "Bin Ladin unit" on why bin Ladin chose to attack the United States:

Former head of the CIA’s Bin Laden Unit Michael Scheuer explains what Mr. Rumsfeld still can’t understand: “Our growing number of Islamist enemies are motivated to attack us because of what the U.S. government does in the Muslim world and not because of how Americans live and think here at home.” Frighteningly, Rumsfeld and those of his mindset have learned nothing since 9/11 and they continue to endanger this country with their stubbornly unreflective views.
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Rep. Paul responded to Santorum's opinion that "they want to kill us because of who we are and what we stand for" and that United States soldiers and sailors should continue to fight and die "for everyone around the world" this way:

As long as this country follows that idea, we are going to be under a lot of danger. This whole idea that the whole Muslim world is responsible for this and they are attacking us because we are free and prosperous, that is just not true. Osama bin Ladin and al Qaeda have been explicit. They have been explicit. And they wrote and said that we attacked America because you had bases on our holy land in Saudi Arabia, you do not give Palestinians a fair treatment, you have been bombing ... [loud audience boos] ... I didn't say that, I am trying to get you to understand what the motive was behind the bombing.... We had been bombing and killing hundreds and thousands of Iraqis for 10 years. Would you be annoyed? If you are not annoyed, then there is some problem!
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Click to expand...
 
#15
#15
There may be an element of truth in there but I can't go along with that to the extent that Ron Paul does.
 
#16
#16
What if I'm a big guy and stronger than most. I see a guy beating a woman that can't defend herself,or a child being molested and instead of intervening I just walk on. Am I wrong?
 
#17
#17
OJ said:
What if I'm a big guy and stronger than most. I see a guy beating a woman that can't defend herself,or a child being molested and instead of intervening I just walk on. Am I wrong?
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Terrible analogy.

There's a big difference between a personal decision and a nation's foreign policy.
 
#18
#18
OJ said:
What if I'm a big guy and stronger than most. I see a guy beating a woman that can't defend herself,or a child being molested and instead of intervening I just walk on. Am I wrong?
Click to expand...

ask Mike McQueary
 
#20
#20
gsvol said:
I'm not so concerned with what they hate or not, what concerns me most is the freedom haters in this country, such as the one who wrote your list.
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Let me see if I understand you.

I hate freedom because I want to stop imposing our will on other countries? because I think bases in Japan cost us money and does nothing to protect our safety? because I think people shouldn't be renditioned? because I think we should only employ our military to directly defend american soil?

Wow.

If you can find anyone who loves freedom more than me, then I want to meet him. He will be my new hero.

And I mean freedom in its real definition. Not some Orwellian vision that can justify endless wars as freedom or the Patriot Act as freedom, etc.
 
#21
#21
OJ said:
What if I'm a big guy and stronger than most. I see a guy beating a woman that can't defend herself,or a child being molested and instead of intervening I just walk on. Am I wrong?
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Just happened to be readig this a few minutes ago...

http://news.yahoo.com/state-senator-wife-attacked-western-ny-casino-213419967.html

Grisanti's chief of staff says the fight happened at the Seneca Niagara Casino and Hotel Events Center around 11 p.m.
He says the lawmaker and his wife were attacked by a group of men and women after Grisanti tried to stop an argument between two Seneca Nation businessmen.
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Trying to play hero and ended up getting himself and his loved ones hurt in the process... all because he didn't mind his business.
 
#22
#22
RespectTradition said:
Let me see if I understand you.

I hate freedom because I want to stop imposing our will on other countries? because I think bases in Japan cost us money and does nothing to protect our safety? because I think people shouldn't be renditioned? because I think we should only employ our military to directly defend american soil?

Wow.

If you can find anyone who loves freedom more than me, then I want to meet him. He will be my new hero.

And I mean freedom in its real definition. Not some Orwellian vision that can justify endless wars as freedom or the Patriot Act as freedom, etc.
Click to expand...

First off, the bases in Japan don't cost us as much as you think as the Japanese Government foots most of that bill. Those bases give us access to the region and provide the ability to uphold our treaty responsibilities for Japan and S. Korea. The stability and economic prosperity in the region, which pays off for US companies in a huge way, can be attributed to our presence in those countries. Those bases also provide a counter balance vis a vis China and Russia. If nK decides to open up and join the rest of the world we could rationalize the size of those bases, but they are a non-controversial win/win for everyone involved.

Regarding bases in the ME. Yes, UBL used bases in Saudi Arabia as his stated incentive for attacking the US but at the time we had a small logistics base with some stockpiles and US contractors. And none of it was anywhere near Medina. He lied. He and the rest of the Salafists attacked us because we are the only super power and being successful against us would build up his reputation--which it did. If you were a school kid who wanted to change your reputation in the school, who would you take on? The weakest guy or the biggest BA on the playground?

Again, the average Haji doesn't hate America, he loves what we stand for and is jealous that they can't do the same. That conflicting emotion is used by Imams and politicians to fire them up.
 
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#23
#23
RespectTradition said:
Let me see if I understand you.

I hate freedom because I want to stop imposing our will on other countries? because I think bases in Japan cost us money and does nothing to protect our safety? because I think people shouldn't be renditioned? because I think we should only employ our military to directly defend american soil?

Wow.

If you can find anyone who loves freedom more than me, then I want to meet him. He will be my new hero.

And I mean freedom in its real definition. Not some Orwellian vision that can justify endless wars as freedom or the Patriot Act as freedom, etc.
Click to expand...

Careful what you wish for. Personally I prefer to protect the USA on foreign soil by taking the fight to our enemies.
 
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